AR-15 for home defense?

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KJS

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I saw an ad from a group that wants to teach me about AR-15s and how they can be used for home defense.

I was curious if you or anyone you know actually uses an AR-15 as a home defense gun.

Handguns are certainly wildly popular for home defense. I know some prefer the massive power of shotguns. I can't say that I've heard anyone actually discuss an AR-15 as something to fend off a bad guy at 3 AM in their home.

As a novice, I wanted to hear the views of those with far more experience. Basically, is an AR a reasonable choice or outright loony for such a use?
 
An AR is a very viable home defense weapon. The 5.56 is less likely to kill something that you dont want to kill due to over penetration, while still delivering very devastating wounds. What is actually best is vastly different from person to person. Personally, I would never grab a pistol for defense unless there were no rifles available. My 12 ga. with 8 rounds of 00buck is my first choice for home defense, with my AK being my second choice, and my AR being #3. I have several pistols, but they are only for concealed carry outside of the home, or range toys.
You have a lot of reading ahead of you if you're beginning the search for a home defense firearm. If you're not familiar with any of them, it would also be good for you to find a way to at least try all of them out first hand before making your decision.
 
The AR platform is very popular. There are alot of goodies you can add to it. Unlike breakmyfootoff I do use pistols as homedefence weapons but that is my choice. If you ask 3 people you might get 3 differant answers [pistols,rifles,shotguns]. Good luck and do your research.
 
First, let's be careful in the use of adjectives. "Wildly" popular and "devastating" aren't objective assessments of what's really going on.

Handguns are preferred by more shooters, and many more who are considered competent in Home Defense. First, consider the term "Home Defense," which is to protect the homeowner, family, and property against intruders who would steal or commit assault against the residents.

Does this even happen that much? No. And when it is reported, the background story is the homeowner often had social ties to the intruders - they were fellow gang members, or had interest in a female who was not monogamous in sexual relations. Take the stupid stuff out, what's left is a white suburban fantasy.

It ignores why the homeowner still resides in a gang infested neighborhood, is picking up women with questionable tactics, or is flaunting a display of wealth for all to see and envy. On top of that, NO physical security of the property or residents seems to be proactively sought.

Basically, some dummy completely clueless about where they live and who they hang with? Really?

The first line of defense is what you have ON YOU in that kind of situation gone bad, handguns are #1 because they can be carried concealed - legal or otherwise. That same gun within the home is much more ready to hand during the evenings activities, or at night on the bedstand.

The average Home Defense speculation is to be suddenly awakened by an intruder with a knife at your throat, when in reality - it being considered a less than safe neighborhood, with locks on the door, an alarm system, dog, etc, the residents would have been awakened with the first thump on the exterior. It's human behavior to awaken when unusual noises are heard in the wrong time and place. A raccoon will awaken me everytime it rolls the 5 gallon galvanized pail of sunflower seed on the back deck. An older teen coming home at 11pm from closing shift at Chik fil A, no.

Leaping to your feet with a loaded firearm in desperate panic you are about to have your throat slashed and family abused, give me a friggin break. Add a fully tricked out light and redi-mag equipped M4 to face the deadly intruders?

Most real home invasions are right their in police statistics - factor out their mistaken break-ins, and you get about three shots fired and the perps wounded, on the run. Running gun battles down bedroom hallways or low crawling the living room in a tactical flank, not so very much. You hear someone beating in a side entrance, attempt to ID the intruders, CALL 911, and then promise to use deadly force. After all, it could be just a drunk lost in the apartment complex at the wrong building. What the heck is that guy doing in my house yelling at ME, Elaine??!?

The use of long arms to defend life and property has it's place, many rural residents keep long arms available in the house, and will use them on the skulkers and padfoots attempting to steal poultry alive to carry it away in their jaws. Humans tend to break into outbuildings to steal expensive tools for resale financing their poorly chosen habits. That's sometimes across a backyard more than a few yards away, the increased accuracy and reach of a long arm is an advantage. If the perp has done any homework at all, you never see them.

That's why Home Defense is really a study of Physical Securiity, and learning that shoving luxury purchases of disposable income in the face of those who can't may be less than the best choice. Honestly, most of that stuff is socio-economic ego bling - you got along just fine without it for all those years, you really need to impress someone that much?

Frankly, if you actually have the income, sitting around in a poorly chosen neighborhood with no security isn't likely to happen. Neither is worrying about what gun to use on the doorbangers busting in to get your stash.

If anyone doesn't want intruders in their home, don't invite them.
 
Main thing for defense is to use something you can get rounds on target; something you are comfortable with and something you can get your hands on when the need arises.
 
There are a number of sides to this that most people never really consider.

First off the most effective Home defense gun is the one you train the most with. You can use a Pistol, Shotgun, AR, or a GE Mini Gun but if you haven't trained how to properly use it then you are just fooling yourself.

Now, does this mean you need to attend formal training or go through a shoot house. No not at all. While these are invaluable tools, even basic training at the range to become comfortable with your chosen weapon will help immensely.

Next is knowing the layout of your house. Can you close your eyes right now and picture your house. Not only the walls of a room but what is on the other side of those walls? If not you need to go do a few walk throughs. I live alone and I am paranoid about it. If I had family in the house I would be even more so.

After those two facts the choice of weapon comes in. Yes I feel the AR (With proper ammo) is probably one of the best platforms for home defense. Easily surpassing the Shotgun and pistol.

An AR is going to be more powerful than any pistol you can possible use for HD and offer easier controlability than a shotgun. On top of this you have less penetration through wallboard than out of most pistols and all but the weakest shotgun shells.

As I just mentioned yesterday in another thread, my chosen Home defense weapon is a 11.5 inch AR with a suppressor on it. This gives me controability and if I ever do need to use it my hearing won't be totally destroyed. I also have a white light and optic on the gun.

As with any weapon however the ammo you carry is very important. If I was to use Ball ammo this AR would go from the best option to possibly the worst. Overpenetration becomes a problem. A 55 Grain M193 or 62 Grain M855 is going to just keep going. I load my gun with 75 grain Hornady T.A.P. It will dump most of its energy very quickly which means it won't go through the entire house and take out little Sally, Fluffy, or Billy Bob next door.
 
OP: Yes I use an Ar15 for home defense. But chances are my CCW pistol is in my hand first.

I can't answer the front door with a rifle in my hands, but I can tuck a 1911 in my shorts and set the rifle down in the corner.


If we want to talk tactics to make this a useful thread:

-Make sure your doorbell rings. Many robberies get violent when the robber gets caught in the act in a house he thought was empty. He can panick now that you know who he is. 20% of huge, nice, houses in suburban areas have doorbells that don't work. A smart criminal rings first to see if anyones home.

-Plenty of thugs drive out to the nice quiet suburbs to rob those. Not a whole lot worth stealing in the ghetto. And those people are allways home. It's far easier to take a white van to an area where alot of the people are not home for a great portion of the year. Many people own multiple houses or an apartment near work.

Suburbs are good at keeping robbery news under wraps. Don't want the local newspaper scaring the sheep out of town.

-During stormy weather in Florida, not even hurricane weather, I can sit on my friends porch and count a dozen looters wandering by in one night. The worse the weather, the more aggressive they become. This was in a nice calm rural area.

-AR's can use excellent optics like an Aimpoint for speed. I can use my Ar even with my contacts out. If I lose my nighttime glasses, my 1911 is nearly useless. My AR is also a whole lot quicker and more accurate than my 1911.

-cancel your newspaper. You don't need those tabloids anyways. That way when you're on vacation you don't have a stack of papers advertising you're not home.

-Don't tell your nieghbors, or anyone, that you'll be out of town for a week. Often robberies can be an inside job.
 
penetration

I get tired of hearing about over-penetration of what-ever. A 22 short will go through 1" pine. A 22 LR will go through several thicknesses of sheet-rock. Sheet-rock turns hollow points into flat points. Only special ammo will go through brick. Let the lawyers worry about it or don't shoot. Your choice.
 
First, I don't consider any long gun to be a viable home defense gun with the exception of using it to defend a set position such as the bedroom. They are the worst possible choice for moving through the house with. A handgun is much better suited to that task.

Second, more important than a firearm is having a plan in place. Let's talk about that "bump in the night". In today's world home invasions are being perpetrated by gangs rather than lone individuals. They are also getting somewhat sophisticated in the attacks. Cutting phone lines is common now and there have been cases where even the power has been cut at the meter. The lone burglar is becoming less common, especially when it comes to occupied homes. The lone burglar knows the chances of running into an armed homeowner has steadily increased over the past few decades and they prefer empty homes as targets. The home invader gangs on the other hand don't seem to care and they are the main threat today.

In my home I have taken a few precautions that are relatively inexpensive yet very effective. When the bump in the night wakes me up I need to determine a couple things as quick as possible. Namely did my cats knock over a lamp or are there strangers in my house. First thing I do is hit a button on a remote mounted on my headboard. This one button lights 100 watt bulb in every room of the house except for the bedroom. As soon as I have turned on the lights I am moving to the side of the bed away from the door and securing a shotgun that is loaded and ready. On the night stand on that side of the bed are several items. The first to get used are 2 baby monitors, the volume on these is already turned up as high as they will go...I just hit the power button. Now I listen. The monitors are located in the rooms that contain the front and back doors, any noise or voices result in me using the second item on the night stand, my cell phone...it is time to call 911. One other item on that side of the bed is one of those 2 million candle watt flood lights to be used lighting up the bedroom door.

While I am listening I am also pulling on a pair of sweat pant, t-shirt, and deck shoes. No matter how sexy women found Edward Norton in American History X I am not confronting bad guys in my boxers and combat boots...I want to be dressed. The sweats I wear have an inner duty belt pre-threaded on it so while listening I also add a duty belt with flashlight, holster. cell phone pouch,and reloads already on it. I also check the land line at this time for a dial tone. No dial tone will mean there is a very good chance the phone lines have been cut which means my cats are innocent of the noise. This again will result in a call to 911.

Now if my lights do not come on I will glance out the window. If I see lights at my neighbors and the street light outside my window are on it means my power has probably been cut as well. Again the phone call is made. I also keep light sticks in the nightstand. If the house is dark one will be thrown into the hallway to backlight anyone crossing in front of my bedroom door. I also keep a house key on a ring with a light stick to throw out the window to the police if I do call them. If any of these steps results in my calling the police I will also use the remote to trigger an outside alarm bell. Burglars hate noise and light so hopefully these actions will get them out of my house.

Now if I have turned on the lights, gotten dressed, found the phone and electric are both ok, and i have heard no activity in the house I will probably safe the shotgun (if my ex is spending the night as she often does she has her own shotgun in hand by this time) drawn my house gun, and announce my intentions in a very load voice. I will put on a set of Wolf Ears (electronic headset) because I don't want to shoot a round of Thunderzap inside without hearing protection and I can actually hear better with the amplified Wolf Ears than I can with my bare ears these days. I will then clear the house. I have a safeword to use with my ex when returning and a action word that means dial 911. With the baby monitors she can easily hear me from anywhere in the house. With luck I will find a cat destroyed vase on the floor of the living room and will go back to bed. If I find signs of an entry the action word is yelled and I quit clearing and retreat to the bedroom and wait for the local PD to respond.

I have a couple rules for family as well.

Rule 1. No one that does not live in my house has a key, period. There have been to many drunk relatives shot by family members when they decided to pull a surprise visit for me to ever allow anyone access to my house at night.

Rule 2. Family members all know to call before visiting after dusk. When my daughter lived at home but was of dating age she would call before coming in.

This plan is not set in stone but is one I have followed for quite a few years. I have never had the "bump in the night" turn out to be an actual entry but I know I did thwart at least one when I found a window on the door broken, probably so someone could reach in to unlock the door. In that case I imagine the whole house lighting up probably convinced the burglar there were easier pickings elsewhere. I am sure I have missed or forgotton a few things...feel free to ask questions. I don't feel it is unmanly in the least to call 911 if i think my home has been invaded. I will try to make sure that is the case before dialing of course. My job is to keep my loved ones alive and save, not to protect my TV. When you have multiple aggressors entering your home it is not that difficult for them to flank you.

My remote switches came from X10 btw, you can do an average house for under $100.00. Their website is a pain in the butt with all the offers but they do sell a good product. Some Radio Shacks carry their products as well.
 
regarding that .223 ammo suggested above here is an excerpt- "The 55 gr. bullet will begin to fragment in barriers but will still retain sufficient velocity, weight and penetration to provide significant stopping power upon exit from the barrier."

I take that as this will kill your kid sleeping in the next room as you, panic stricken, start emptying your rifle.

You live in a major metropolitan area, yes? Consider low recoil 12 gauge loads.
ALSO, pardon me if this has been said but God forbid you need to use it, what do you think the jury of non-gun owners is going to think of your evil black rifle?
The best home defense is a good security system, motion lights, no ladders available in unlocked sheds or garages, no open windows, hedges that block the view and as a last defense a 12 gauge with a tactical light.
I think after the first shot you are going to be deaf and blind for a few seconds at least... better make sure the bad guy has some lead in him.
 
Motega that post confuses me a bit.

Are you saying you recommend low recoil 12ga loads as a self defense round? I would not.

Are you also saying that an HD .223 round will go through a wall that 12ga would not? The over penetration thing has been done to death, but the bottom line is any round effective at stopping a bad guy will go through an interior wall.

I've heard lots of people bring up 'the gun looks evil to jurors' idea, but haven't ever seen a case cited where this was a factor. does anyone know of one?

As someone that has done a decent bit of night shooting, I much prefer my flash-suppressed AR to even my pistol for retaining my night vision.

Here's another link:
http://www.hornadyle.com/faq/indexd62b.html?qIdx=4

RubberDuck: Awesome pic
 
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Yes, home defense situations are rare, but home invasions and armed robberies do happen, so I feel the question is valid, if very unlikely.

At this stage, I have a 12 gauge pump shotgun, a full-size 9mm, and also an AR15.

I'll grab and use which ever gun is closest to me if somebody busts in the door. That's for sure. If that's the AR, then great.

I don't think there is a clear streetwise answer to the question 'which is best'. I live in an urban environment, and penetration is a risk with all of those. All three have the risk of overpenetrating if I were to accidentally shoot through some sheetrock and a window or something. The shotgun has the additional risk of more pellets to account for, while the 9mm is *much* easier to maneuver with in tight hallways.
 
An AR is better than some choices, getting frangible bullets would be a good idea, to kill penetration, but my first would be any semi auto shotgun, the S12 is an economical choice in this category, my brother has an 11-87 and besides the barrel being a bit long he uses it for anything. Compactness is important.
 
If you're talking about a Saiga 12 being economical, then you haven't priced them recently.
 
Granted I just looked that up and can see they have gone up, a lot. Disregard that post then, I guess a pump will work just as well.
 
Higher capacity.
Rifles are easier to shoot under stress.
More powerful.
Less likely to exit the body of an intruder than a handgun round.
Less penetration through walls than a handgun.
Less muzzle flash.


What's not to like?
 
Weapons retention: Any shoulder fired weapon is a whole lot of gun to grab a hold of and wrestle with. With training on weapons retention US soldiers have 50% chance of keeping there weapon in a struggle. I took combatives 1 this year and that long gun gives your attacker 30in of stuff to grab where as a pistol tends to wind up on the floor (not great either). I'm not against an AR in the closet, I have one there myself, but be aware that if someone is in the house you have a little less time to react with a long gun, and a long gun takes more time to get on target.
 
A good sling is a must with a long gun for home defense. I have trained weapon retention and its fairly easy with a slung longgun. If the bad guy grabs the barrel just take a huge step back and take a knee. Unless the guy is strong enough to overcome your body weight this manuever will likely either get him to let go or pull the muzzle in line with his body. Both options give you an advantage.

I do agree with above that the best home defense gun is the one you are most familiar and trained with.
 
Higher capacity.
Rifles are easier to shoot under stress.
More powerful.
Less likely to exit the body of an intruder than a handgun round.
Less penetration through walls than a handgun.
Less muzzle flash.


What's not to like?


I'm thinking size would be the major downside, being "too long" for the confines of a home (a view I've heard about any long gun). Same argument comes up with tactical shotguns that are about the same size as carbines. Handguns have size on their side, never being wider than a doorway, plus they fit in a nightstand.

Of course, there is an argument for size. If a bad guy meets somebody pointing either an AR or shotgun at them, it would certainly seem to have an intimidation factor on its side that exceeds that of a little handgun.

Of course, a handgun can be operated with one hand if need be. Seems like it would be much harder to do that with any long gun.
 
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Handguns are preferred by more shooters, and many more who are considered competent in Home Defense.

Yet apparently those competent in home defense apparently like to choose a weapon that is considered a very poor stopper compared to rifles and shotguns. Makes you wonder about their purported competency.
 
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