Alternatives to AR-15 for Home Defense

Status
Not open for further replies.
Some have touched on the subject and most would agree, train with that weapon. At the range and in your home so you're proficient with it.

Obviously you can't shoot it in the house but you can train with it. Find positions that allow you the best cover and shooting positions.

The caliber won't matter, proper HD ammo for the gun is the key. 1oz of birdshot is devastating across a room as are .22 LR HP's out of a 10/22.
 
Why do people keep saying this?
I have no idea.
Also, far too many seem to feel that shotgun shot at indoor sorts of ranges will just glance off drywall. Or lodge & stop.
Years & years ago, this question nagged at me. Living in a 980sf fourplex focused such worries, too.
Built some 2x4 & wallboard walls and set them up as a "hallway" about 21' (7 yards) long. Birdshot easily passed through both faces. HP .22lr and JHP .223 were least worst about sailing through the walls. Bad person ducks behind a corner they may be less visible, but not less vulnerable, not at 7 yards or less.
 
. Easy to point and hit with, shotguns are less liable to over-penetration issues than any rifle. YMMv, Rod

YMMV doesn't apply when there are testable results. #4 buck is the only effective defensive load that isn't terribly overpenetrative if you miss. 00 buck penetrates more in tissue than almost all 5.56mm defensive loads. Foster slugs penetrate less at close range than 00 in tissue. A miss with slug or 000, 00, or 0 is likely to penetrate a lot of structure.
 
.

The caliber won't matter, proper HD ammo for the gun is the key. 1oz of birdshot is devastating across a room as are .22 LR HP's out of a 10/22.

A few years ago, Jeff White posted a link to a man who attempted to commit suicide with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with birdshot. it took several shots.

BTW, I just remembered Darrell. I went hunting with Darell when I was a teenager, while he was waiting for trial. Darrell believed his wife had killed herself, and then Darrell committed suicide when he saw her body. The police believed it was a murder-suicide attempt. Having been on pills and drunk, he couldn't remember.

Darrell put his 12 gauge under his chin, and shot himself with what I believe was 00 buck. That side of his face looked about like ice cream that's been scooped out with a hot dipper, just missing a big "scoop" of face on that side.
 
The issue I have with the 12 Gauge in close quarter conflicts typical of HD is that the shot doesn't have time to spread so you have to aim it the same as if it were a rifle and the big recoil slows my followup shots. I can line up my sights on the target for followup shots much faster with a pistol caliber repeating carbine.

My current HD carbine is a Marlin 1894 loaded with 44 Special +P. However as much as I love the Marlin my ideal gun for HD is a semiauto carbine in 45 ACP.

Here's a good exercise to train for multiple shots- toss a small (start with a 6"X6" box, work down as your skill level increases) empty cardbox box about 10 feet in front of you on the ground. (Obviously, you need to have a safe place to do this, a slightly sloping grassy hill with a clear zone like a farm field is ideal)
Fire one, follow the box until it stops, fire, repeat three more times. Increase speed, then decrease size of the boxes.


A few years ago, Jeff White posted a link to a man who attempted to commit suicide with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with birdshot. it took several shots.

BTW, I just remembered Darrell. I went hunting with Darell when I was a teenager, while he was waiting for trial. Darrell believed his wife had killed herself, and then Darrell committed suicide when he saw her body. The police believed it was a murder-suicide attempt. Having been on pills and drunk, he couldn't remember.

Darrell put his 12 gauge under his chin, and shot himself with what I believe was 00 buck. That side of his face looked about like ice cream that's been scooped out with a hot dipper, just missing a big "scoop" of face on that side.

A guy I had gone to elementary school with put an 870 with a Trap load in it under his chin and fired, right after graduating high school. He survived two weeks in the hospital with no face. I suspect had he used a 00 Buck round, the results would have been similar.
 
I can lean over and reach the Benelli M2, that I favor for home defense. It was my duty shotgun, during the final two years of my policin’ career, 2016-2018. Familiarity is comforting. I had used Remington 870 shotguns, or its clone, the Howa-manufactured S&W 3000, since 1983, and an Ithaca 37 pump gun before that. I had used the Benelli M1/M2 platform since the early Nineties. With my pumping arm not aging so gracefully, I gravitated toward the auto-loading Benelli, while my former duty 870P now wears a Pachmayr Vindicator grip, as complete-cycle pumping is made easier, when the gun is not shouldered.

My BCM “Lightweight Middy” M4 is unloaded, inside the safe. I was certified to be a “patrol carbine” unit officer, for a time, but never learned to like the AR15/M4 platform, for close-range work. I saw it as a “perimeter” weapon. When enough of my young buck colleagues, with their younger eyes and younger knees*, were certified to carry patrol carbines, I let my patrol carbine certification lapse. I could qual with my duty shotgun while remaining standing on my hind legs.

It is not that I have anything against the 5.56/.223 cartridge, for use within structures. It is well-documented that a 55-grain JSP .223 bullet will over-penetrate less, through many common building materials, than a typical duty handgun bullet. (Better not miss, with an AR/M4, out in the open, however, as that bullet is deadly, for a much longer distance.

One nice thing about the Mini-14, at close range, is that the line-of-sight, over the bore, is not so high, so, there is less offset, at extremely close range. No need to do any math, or recall a memorized offset, while aiming, across a room.

*The timed, run-and-gun qual was best performed by younger folks, who could spring quickly to their feet, after the mandated prone firing position at 100 yards, and the mandated kneeling firing position at 50 yards.
 
It's certainly not going to be a long gun for me. We were robbed twice before we moved. I have a couple of 1911's on my bed stand. Something I can grab quick and shoot from the bed if need be. I'm not fooling myself into the thought that I can wake form a dead sleep, stand up, pick up and shoulder a long gun, and find the target. All the while with the robber standing there with a gun waiting patiently for me to do all of this.

Now, if it was like the cowboy movies, and I had notice they were coming and a hundred yards away I would use my 308 M1A with a 20 round mag. But this isn't the cowboy movies. At least not for me.
 
A 12 gauge shotgun is a formidable close range weapon. But for the love of God, dont bet your life on birdshot. I've seen several people shot with birdshot. For the most part it's not a fight stopper. Contact shots work more often than not, but even then it can be iffy.
 
Lots of alternatives for defense. Lots of different defensive needs. How many people, at what ranges, any chance of armor?

Several ways to avoid needing defense, too. Less life changing events involved with them as well.

Inside my home, I would take one Remington 870 or one Mossberg 500/590 over a bucket full of KelTec, 22 mag rifles, for other people inside a house.

SHTF, chicken coop, bugout, armadillos tearing up your yard or other unusual uses would have different picks.
 
Last edited:
I have frequently kept a handgun nearby, and a long gun fairly quickly accessible. Due living in a gated community with armed guards, I fortunately don't have to keep as high a readiness level.
 
When I lived in a century old brick house in the city, I felt good about using a rifle for HD. The brick (and everyone else’s brick houses around me) would effectively render moot any question of overpenetration, while I’d have plenty of mag capacity and range if necessary in case there was something like a riot or gang activity.

Nowadays I live in a modern subdivision in a much more peaceful outer suburb, borderline rural. I still have an AR near the bed, but keep thinking that the really optimal home defense setup would be a suppressed 9mm or .45 short barrel carbine, with a light and a red dot.
 
I think any dependable semi-auto that you like is fine.

My alternative would be a 14-18in shotgun loaded with 16 pellet #1 or 35 pellet nickel plated #4 buckshot. I like that the pattern increases a chance of a hit on the first shot and it makes a head or upper neck shot easier.
 
When I lived in a century old brick house in the city, I felt good about using a rifle for HD. The brick (and everyone else’s brick houses around me) would effectively render moot any question of overpenetration, while I’d have plenty of mag capacity and range if necessary in case there was something like a riot or gang activity.

Nowadays I live in a modern subdivision in a much more peaceful outer suburb, borderline rural. I still have an AR near the bed, but keep thinking that the really optimal home defense setup would be a suppressed 9mm or .45 short barrel carbine, with a light and a red dot.
Do a bit of searching for 9mm vs. .223 wall penetration. Or do some testing yourself. There's not much difference.
 
9mm carbine is what I have. Everyone in my family can use it. My daughter and wife want shot my 12 ga. So I got a 9mm. Almost zero recoil. And IF we have to use it. It want be as loud as a 12 ga. Will still hurt everyone’s ears. Thinking about getting a suppressor.
 
Do a bit of searching for 9mm vs. .223 wall penetration. Or do some testing yourself. There's not much difference.

I haven’t researched it in a few years, but you’re right, I don’t think there’s a huge difference. Both are very likely to “overpenetrate.” In fact, I think .223 FMJ paradoxically penetrates less drywall than a pistol FMJ. But I think to compensate for that, a PCC would likely be able to be used more accurately, mostly because of the suppressed aspect. Going from flash-bang loud to just loud should be a good thing. Or maybe I just tell myself that because I want an excuse for another gun.

Incidentally, my old house was small and beautifully set up for defense. There was a relatively steep, long, straight central stairway with a window at the bottom looking straight at the neighbor’s brick wall. A bump in the night (and the whole ground floor had creaky, old wood floors, making it easy to hear a mouse, much less a burglar) meant I could grab my gun and make my way out of the bedroom, which opened directly onto the upstairs landing for this stair. A perfect position in that to access the stair from the bottom, one was required to ascend a couple of smaller stairs and then make a sharp left turn into the main stairwell. The kids’ bedroom was also on the second floor, well out of potential lines of fire. In my current house all bets are off. I feel like I’d be able to aim and maneuver a PCC better, and I’d need to, because the house is spread out with no ideal defensive choke points or fields of fire.
 
Last edited:
When I lived in a century old brick house in the city, I felt good about using a rifle for HD. The brick (and everyone else’s brick houses around me) would effectively render moot any question of overpenetration, while I’d have plenty of mag capacity and range if necessary in case there was something like a riot or gang activity.

Nowadays I live in a modern subdivision in a much more peaceful outer suburb, borderline rural. I still have an AR near the bed, but keep thinking that the really optimal home defense setup would be a suppressed 9mm or .45 short barrel carbine, with a light and a red dot.
Again, tests show the 40 gr VMax is the least penetrative defensive load in structure. All 9mm defensive loads penetrate more. If you're concerned about overpenetration, your AR is a better choice.
 
There are low recoil 12ga 2-3/4 shells available with 00 buck, for the more recoil sensitive.

As far as aiming goes, if your shotgun has a weapons light and you have your cheek on the stock, that bead thingy up front goes over the intruder's chest. Cycling a pump shotgun is fast and easy if you practice.

OP, I suggest that if you have an outdoor space you can shoot (because indoor ranges are weird about shotguns and ammo types), you should seriously consider getting a 12ga pump,100 shells of cheap birdshot, and a couple rubber reactive targets (balls or whatever). Then go shoot the targets (switching from one to the other), practice topping off the tube as you go, and loading the chamber directly any time you find it empty.

If you do that, afterwards, you'll laugh at how simple it is.
 
Last edited:
Seems everyone is getting AR-15s but are there not alternatives for home defense that are worth a look?

I kind of like the Ruger Mini14 Tactical, but it is expensive. Same ammo as AR-15, but only holds 20 in the magazine. Maybe larger magazines can be had?

Alternately for a budget purchase, there is Kel Tech. They have a .22 Magnum carbine that holds 30 rounds. Seems this would not be a bad option for home defense.

However, the more it looks like a regular hunting rifle, the more I like it, such as the Ruger Mini 14.

there are a lot of alternatives, the question is, what’s your environment? Farm, City, suburban, rural, distance to neighbors, wall construction, are there family members in the house, do they know how to use said gun…

As a general rule, a Handgun with a light makes a good HD weapon, so does a 12Ga shotgun but since this is the Rifle Country and you want an AR alternative here goes.

AK rifle or pistol variants with Brace
2E6CF6E3-E648-474B-AE7E-FA10DC071381.jpeg

FN PS90
7C9401D9-7710-494C-B797-7CA89D1A5CCD.png

SCAR
B08174DB-5A68-4FA3-9BA4-6F6564A425CE.png

AUG A3
595B2275-8724-454A-B2D9-41ECA5E1798A.png
 
AK seems too powerful but I was drooling over this one at the GS last Friday, want $750 for it:
index.php
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top