AR-15 for home defense?

[Motega]

LOL I think anyone that knows enough to come here for info is going to give an intruder a pretty bad experience.
I'm glad I'm on YOUR side...
I guess any of the above will work it's all a matter of what you are going to #1- put by your bed loaded EVERY night and #2- put BACK IN THE SAFE EVERY MORNING.

#2 is way more important than #1 in keeping your family safe.

 

[Tirod]

A rifle is long, and telegraphs it's position around doors and furniture.
A sling on a rifle can and will snag any loose item, doorknob, decor, cabinet handle, etc.
A rifle sticks out about 24 more inches and that can be used against you in CQB.
You can't CCW a rifle during the day - if you don't have it, you can't use it when you step into your open garage doors coming home.
You will find it harder to hold a rifle while using a phone to dial 911.
Using a flashlight with one hand, and a rifle in the other has it's limitations. You can with a pistol.


There are a lot of things to consider in the situation, and just maybe you DO want to penetrate a wall or door when the situation becomes extreme. Don't take the conditions of infra urban warfare too restrictively because it can limit your options and response. There are pros and cons, please note nobody is saying one gun or the other CAN'T be used at all.

It's very much a small percentage situation, and most homeowners don't have a dedicated HD gun - they just use whatever is convenient from the limited choices they have purchased, largely from sporting or recreational use. They most likely would spend HD fund money on making the house more secure - not leaving things as is to hole up inside with a tricked out zombie slayer waiting for crazed perverts to invade.

Got to ask, why you and why there? It may be impolite to suggest that the improperly dressed young girl may have been inviting attention, but it's no defense at home. Why do these discussions ignore the reality and immediately jump to the fantastic?

If you disagree, please tell us, what mag vest is the most comfortable to sleep in? And can you get them in flannel with little dancing bears on them?

"It could still happen." means "I'm not even trying to fix the real problem." Nobody talks about how most gun thefts from a home are cased out by a casual acquaintance the prior six weeks, who likely handled the specific gun they later came by to remove from your possession because nothing was being done to protect the property. They stole from someone making noise about how prepared they are with guns - not locks, safes, and a responsible view to home security.

Ask the guy who's had their man cave stripped while gone on a holiday weekend. Anyone can inventory what to take every time the garage door is opened, and they live within eyesight just across the block, or walk by coming home from school or work.

$2,000 tool chest, probably another $5,000 in it, $600 air compressor, table saw, drill press, lots of garage cabinets with no locks, 2 ton jack, reloading bench, looks like a glass front gun cabinet across from the HD flat screen thru the massive window with the obscured side door no one can see. No dog, and usually hooks up the pontoon boat on Fridays before holidays.

And the 4th of July on Monday means a long weekend this year. Bet he leaves the AR at home. Tired of his 14 year old braggin all day about it. Glad he showed it to me. Cousin Earl sure got interested. Wonder what he's doing the 4th of July? Said something about staying in town, no money.

Tell me all about your home defense plan. Me, I'm installing new bedroom windows upstairs that week. They have better glass, are insulated, and lock. What good is home defense if the money pit is bleeding utilities payments from the spendable income?

Most of us assess the risks and decide accordingly.

 

[Art Eatman]

I learned at age 12 that if a .22 is pointed at you, the bore diameter is about the size of the average garbage can.

RFK discovered the consequences of being shot with a .22 rimfire.

Seems to me that folks over-think the whole deal just a bit much. Good odds that the tactics might be a bit different as a function of weapons choice. Could be that rolling off the bed, away from the doorway, and covering the door with any weapon while calling 911 would be as good a tactic as there is.

A more wide-open and spacious residence might be more suitable for using a long gun. A small cramped apartment? Maybeso a handgun would be better.

But if a rifle is to be used, the AR is as good as any...

 

[gotigers]

What about your hearing if you shoot an AR in a room without hearing protection or a can?

 

[Rail Driver]

I use a combination of my AR-15 and a sidearm as my home defense weapons. The situation dictates which I grab. Usually, though, I just take my pistol to check out "bumps in the night", but if I hear a lot of ruckus and noise I go to the rifle.

 

[Zerodefect]

I agree that home defense is a highly specific, finite, topic to discuss. Your home, terrain, location, skill level, training, fitness and gear make a million different combinations of what would work best.

You have to figure out what works for you. And it's best to have a backup plan or two as well. If you're skilled with a pistol, shotgun, or rifle in a CQB senerio, you're better off than most.

You have to find what works best for you. Only way to know for sure is to try as many styles as you can and to get as much training as possible. The training is fun anyways.

A rifle is long, and telegraphs it's position around doors and furniture. No more than a pistol in an outstreched arm deos. I can clear a house quicker with a rifle usually. But in a defense situation, I really don't need to "clear" anything.


A sling on a rifle can and will snag any loose item, doorknob, decor, cabinet handle, etc. My sling is stored in my bug out ammo bag. I don't have my sling clipped to my HD carbine. Assuming I had time to toss a sling on......my Magpul MS2 has never snagged an anything in single point mode. It's just too form fitting anf tight on my body.


A rifle sticks out about 24 more inches and that can be used against you in CQB.
My Ps90 sticks out less than my hands with a pistol in them. My Ar sticks out a little more. But retension is superior with either. It's very easy to spin a pistol around on someone, at best a rifle can only be slapped out of the way and made ineffective.

If someone gets a hand on my carbine, they are just going to end up butstroked by the steel tab on my ACS stock or worse.

Judging these techniques is kinda determined to how defenseless you are if someone deos get a hand on your rifle. Different strokes for different folks. My next door neighbor is toast if he gets into that position. He is elderly and has only one leg, so he has to think ahead for such things. I can just drop the darn rifle and go HTH if needed.


You can't CCW a rifle during the day - if you don't have it, you can't use it when you step into your open garage doors coming home. Well, yeah.

You will find it harder to hold a rifle while using a phone to dial 911.
Not really a big deal. I'll be stationary if I have the opportunity to use my phone.

Using a flashlight with one hand, and a rifle in the other has it's limitations. You can with a pistol. Defensive rifles have a thumb operated flashlight mounted on them anyways. My rifles absolutely walk all over the technique of one handed pistol operation in low light conditions.

Not to mention the rifles have a bright reddot scope thats usually easy to pickup, while the pistol has a dim green front sight that may or may not be visible at all and is usually much harder to pickup.

 

[Cosmoline]

Leaping to your feet with a loaded firearm in desperate panic you are about to have your throat slashed and family abused, give me a friggin break. Add a fully tricked out light and redi-mag equipped M4 to face the deadly intruders?

Well would you rather have a lightless, small, difficult to aim, hard to find handgun instead of the equipped M4? I've had a few issues with bumps in the night, and I follow the 2AM rule. Whatever I have needs to work for me with no glasses, bleary eyed, stumbly and confused. That means a long tun with a light on it. An AR-15 is a fine choice and among the easiest to equip.

Bottom line is, I need to be able to hit what I aim at both to end the threat and reduce the number of rounds fired. Some of you folks must be much better handgun shots than I am. I need the stability of the long gun particularly at night when my heart is racing and things are crashing. As far as someone reaching and grabbing the barrel, I have no intention of trying to clear my own place.

But let's assume we are talking about going from room to room. I really do NOT remember seeing a lot of professional teams training to clear houses with short guns because they're afraid a bad guy is going to grab the barrel. They do in fact use AR-15 type platforms.

If you disagree, please tell us, what mag vest is the most comfortable to sleep in?

With this and the "zombie" comments you are confusing the tacti-cool crowd with folks who just want a better option for self defense. There's no need to wear a mag vest if you have 20 or 30 rounds already in the firearm. The extra ammo would be more necessary with a hand gun.

A handgun worthy of home defense would still blow a hole clear through a small house. And it will still deafen you. A higher velocity rifle round gives you a wider choices of projectile performance. It also gives you HP's that will truly open.

I agree that the handgun is the best choice for one application--concealed carry. And in that role it should remain.

 

[Zerodefect]

What about your hearing if you shoot an AR in a room without hearing protection or a can?

I've shot a .40 pistol indoors with no hearing protection.

Your hearing is screwed either way. I had ringing in both ears for an hour. My right ear was numb feeling on the inside for two days.

 

[M1key]

What about your hearing if you shoot an AR in a room without hearing protection or a can?

It's loud but bearable...and no, I didn't go deaf. Drapes, carpeting, sofas, etc. tend to absorb some of the blast.

...eh? What's that you say?

M

 

[TriTone]

Can't speak to the sound of a rifle indoors but pistol isnt that bad from my experience
pistols aren't to bad.

I've been in couplesituations where a small arm has discharged within feet of my unprotected ears, including a 357 magnum (6") at arms length, pointing away from me in an unfinished basement and worse a .380 (bersa thunder) about 7 inches from my left ear at about a 70 degree angle from the side of my face, in an average apartment sized bedroom. I continue to be a music educator and a successful clarinetist in multiple performing groups.

My point is, don't worry about the sound and hearing damage, do what has to be done.

 

[General Geoff]

What about your hearing if you shoot an AR in a room without hearing protection or a can?

The report from a .357 magnum revolver is louder than from an AR-15. You WILL damage your hearing without protection or a silencer, regardless of the gun used.

 

[gotigers]

depends on situation:

indoor break in, bump in the night = 9mm Ruger P89 or S&W 642

Outdoor, STHF HD = S&W M&P15 with Eotech

I dont have a pump. It would cover both.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

There are very few questions where an ar-15 isn't at least a passibly acceptable answer.

 

[stuckinsocal]

regarding that .223 ammo suggested above here is an excerpt- "The 55 gr. bullet will begin to fragment in barriers but will still retain sufficient velocity, weight and penetration to provide significant stopping power upon exit from the barrier."

I take that as this will kill your kid sleeping in the next room as you, panic stricken, start emptying your rifle.

You live in a major metropolitan area, yes? Consider low recoil 12 gauge loads.
ALSO, pardon me if this has been said but God forbid you need to use it, what do you think the jury of non-gun owners is going to think of your evil black rifle?
The best home defense is a good security system, motion lights, no ladders available in unlocked sheds or garages, no open windows, hedges that block the view and as a last defense a 12 gauge with a tactical light.
I think after the first shot you are going to be deaf and blind for a few seconds at least... better make sure the bad guy has some lead in him.

Do you have any specific examples of this where the type of gun was either used to make the defendant look bad to the jury or where the jury actually took it into consideration? I'm constantly hearing the argument that a shotgun, lever gun, m1 carbine, or some other PC-looking firearm is better for self defense than a scary looking gun, but I've yet to hear of any real cases where it actually mattered.

 

[jad0110]

The layout of you home and whether or not you'll have to do a full or partial clearing (to get to children, for example) are as important in determing which weapon you select as your proficiency with said weapon. I live in a home with a very open floor plan, so the use of a shotgun or rifle doesn't really present much of a disadvantage. I've got a few long runs where I might have to shoot up to about 15 yards, so a long gun has definite advantages for my situation.

For me, the first weapon I'll likely have in hand is either my CCW while awake or my S&W 686 stashed in my gunvault at my bedside (I have a 4 year old). During the day, I keep an unloaded AR up on a high shelf in a section of my closet that is difficult for others to see, and I keep a 20 round mag in my pocket. At night though, the shotgun goes up in its place, locked and loaded, ready to go. I'm more confident with the shotgun at this time, nothing quite like one trigger pull sending 9 1/3" diameter lead balls at an aggressor. But my confidence and proficiency with the AR is building such that one day, I may well switch over to it instead.

We'll see. Stick with what you are comfortable with, and what works best for your home / family situation.

 

[benEzra]

I was curious if you or anyone you know actually uses an AR-15 as a home defense gun.

(snip)

Basically, is an AR a reasonable choice or outright loony for such a use?

A semiauto .223 carbine (AR, mini-14, Kel-Tec, whatever) is an eminently reasonable HD choice, in my opinion. A 9mm is more likely to be on my person or close at hand in an emergency, but the AR in the safe wears a light and has a magazine of JHP inserted, and would be my first choice if I had time to access it.

What about your hearing if you shoot an AR in a room without hearing protection or a can?

Same as if you shoot a short-barrel centerfire handgun in a room without hearing protection or a can; you'll probably suffer some mild hearing damage.

A lot of people forget that the peak loudness of a firearm is roughly proportional to the bore diameter and velocity and inversely proportional to the barrel length, so a 16" or 18" barreled .223 carbine is no louder (in terms of peak dBA) than a lot of 3.5" or 4" barreled pistols, and is considerably less loud than a .357 revolver (thanks to the high-pressure annular discharge at the barrel-cylinder gap).

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

The sound spectrum (and possibly the pulse duration) are different between centerfire rifles, pistols, revolvers, and shotguns, but the peak loudness is surprisingly similar.

ALSO, pardon me if this has been said but God forbid you need to use it, what do you think the jury of non-gun owners is going to think of your evil black rifle?

We have some data on that, from something of a "worst case scenario."

http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2009/0...s-and-the-fears-of-the-legally-armed-citizen/

This study involved a scenario that was intentionally ambiguous (shooting an apparently unarmed guy who is trying to walk out of your house with your VCR, who makes verbal threats but no aggressive moves). There was no statistically significant affect on the innocent-or-guilty decision between the mini-14 and the AR-15. There was a statistically significant affect on sentence length for those defendants who where found guilty murder, with slightly longer sentences going to the AR-15 users who were convicted than mini-14 users who were convicted, although the gender of the shooter played a larger role than the weapon choice.

So it appears that mini-14 vs. AR-15 doesn't make a difference one way or another as to whether a jury will rule justifiable or not, BUT if someone is convicted of murder, they may be sentenced somewhat more harshly if they use a nontraditional looking firearm.

I think that now, with the "assault weapon" fraud going away and the AR-15 dominating both the centerfire target shooting and home-defense carbine markets, the small dichotomy that existed in that study will become even less significant as time goes on.

I'm no lawyer, but it is my layperson's opinion that the choice of any practical NFA Title 1 firearm (whether handgun, rifle, or shotgun) would be much less important than things like the homeowner's demeanor, aggressive posturing prior to the incident ("trespassers will be shot" signs, that sort of thing), intoxication, and whether the homeowner was engaged in illegal activities at the time. I would expect that factors undermining the components of justifiability, i.e. imminent jeopardy and the mantle of innocence, would take precedence over the aesthetics of the firearm itself.

 

[KJS]

My 12 ga. with 8 rounds of 00buck is my first choice for home defense, with my AK being my second choice, and my AR being #3.

I don't know enough to have an opinion on an AK vs AR for home defense, but I am wondering what the reason(s) favoring an AK would be in that situation.

 

[Jon_L]

My AR is probably closer to my bed than my pistol is (it's usually in the living room, where I put it after carrying). Depends where I am in the house.

 

[Cosmoline]

I think that now, with the "assault weapon" fraud going away and the AR-15 dominating both the centerfire target shooting and home-defense carbine markets, the small dichotomy that existed in that study will become even less significant as time goes on.

This bears repeating and remembering in years to come. I've noticed a lot more AR's and "assault" style long arms at the ranges in the past decade. They used to be rare and tend to draw attention, but not anymore.

 

[Breakmyfootoff]

I don't know enough to have an opinion on an AK vs AR for home defense, but I am wondering what the reason(s) favoring an AK would be in that situation.

Just personal preference really. I've done a lot more shooting with my AK than with the AR platform and I'm more comfortable with it, and I like the caliber better. It could change after I get a 6.8 upper, but for now I prefer the larger bullet.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

A rifle is long, and telegraphs it's position around doors and furniture.

Then you aren't doing it right.

A sling on a rifle can and will snag any loose item, doorknob, decor, cabinet handle, etc.

So can your holster (since you mentioned CCW below), concealment garment, lanyard, etc.

A rifle sticks out about 24 more inches and that can be used against you in CQB.

It isn't the length that can make a firearm used against you. You will find plenty of problems with handguns in this regard as well.

You can't CCW a rifle during the day - if you don't have it, you can't use it when you step into your open garage doors coming home.

Nobody ever suggested that there was one and only one gun that could be used to defend your home. If you have been elsewhere and are coming home, then you won't be carrying your rifle, probably, so maybe you only have a pistol at that time, but that doesn't make a pistol best all the time.

Strangely, while I don't CCW a rifle on my person, when I pull into my garage, the law here says I can have a lot of things in my vehicle including rifles and shotguns, not just pistols. The rifle and shotgun need not be concealed. Once on my property, the pistol doesn't either.

You will find it harder to hold a rifle while using a phone to dial 911.

911 is the least of my worries.

Using a flashlight with one hand, and a rifle in the other has it's limitations. You can with a pistol.

There is a reason they make weapon mounted lights, for rifles, shotguns, and pistols. Did you know it is difficult to hold a pistol, flashlight, and dial 911...going back to your holding issue above, LOL.

 

[1stmarine]

Ar15 can be an excellent defense system and round. If you are in an urban environment with lots of people around you (apartment building) I would need to asses the situation. Also you can choose sinterfire special purpose ammo that while still is devastating at close range it disintegrates real quickly. But the ideal situation for really tight quarters is to go short. You can do AR pistol with foldable tock still or there are other good options. Keltec PLR with stock? There are others but much more expensive and these ones refuse to malfunction, just like a good AK piston...



Cheers.
E.

 

[C-grunt]

My 12 ga. with 8 rounds of 00buck is my first choice for home defense, with my AK being my second choice, and my AR being #3.

I don't know enough to have an opinion on an AK vs AR for home defense, but I am wondering what the reason(s) favoring an AK would be in that situation.

If you are more familiar with the AK then it would be a great choice as well. My only worry about the AK would be the small amount of good home defense ammo. A good 55 grn HP/SP .223 will most likely break up inside the attacker or in the walls if you miss. 7.62x39, as far as I know, doesnt have a whole lot of options for this.

 

[1stmarine]

Nonsense!. The AK is a great home ( or ANY) defense system too.
Keep 8-10 good mags that is as much as you would need even in the worse case (zombie invasion from another planet).
They also sell fragmenting rounds for these if needed.
Actually in close quarters watch out whit the AK lots of energy. Stay away from military metal core FMJs. Same thing with the AR in CQs.
What about an AK pistol with a folding stock? sweet!

The AR vs AKl, .223 vs. 7.62, mine vs yours nonsense it is like an old broken record, boring and sad.

 

[irondavy]

I do a home clearing practice run with my 12 gauge pump at least once a month. all the bedrooms are at one end of the house and if the is the "Bump in the night" I know how to deal with it. Get the kids and retreat to the master BR where my wife has already called 911 from and has been keeping an eye on the window with my 1911.
Which gun to use in the night is a simple one. Use what you have and practice with that same gun. A practiced with gun is less likely to shoot the neighbors but still knock down the bad guys.

By the way the neighbors two doors down aren't alive anymore because of a home invasion gone bad. They had no guns/ way of defending themselves and were shot point blank anyway. I didn't hear the shots but I heard one of the bad guys jump my chain link fence. The plan worked like clockwork. Grabbed the 12 ga tossed the 1911 to my wife got the my kid retreated to the master BR put the little one behind the gunsafe. Meanwhile 911 was called and the cops were knocking on the window with badges visible in 5 minutes.

Make a plan stick to it and if all you have is a couple of pointy sticks and a rock you will do all right.

ID