ar bump fire trigger

[sharpcoolman]

Hello folks i have been tinkering with an idea. I don't know how practical or legal it would be but here it goes. I have been planning or more like drawing some ideas on paper. They involve the buffer, bcg, and trigger of an ar-15. My idea is to use the bcg's movement to bump the trigger forward and reset it for you. Then the continued gentel squeeze of your finger would fire the next round. The idea was to design a lever in the trigger group that will engage when the selector is place in the full auto possition. To recap the rear motion of the bolt cocks the hammer, then the forward motion resets the trigger for you and the then the finger's pull fires and repeats the process. So in essence it is a finger bumpfire, not a bumpfire with a ridiculous stock. How does this sound (legal or not)?

 

[crazysccrmd]

http://tacconusa.com

 

[Skylerbone]

Beat me to it.

 

[LAGS]

I am sorry, and don't mean to offend anyone.
But what is the sense of a Bump fire trigger ?
It just seems like a good way to waste ammo.
If you want Full Auto, then pay the tax and get yourself one.
I am a fan of Full Auto, but just cant get behind someone like a Tommy Tactical Guy doing bump fire and hitting nothing.
Back in the day, we called it Spray and Pray, or Accuracy by Volume

 

[crazysccrmd]

If that trigger worked (I've read mixed reviews) you would have a nearly FA rifle for $500 instead of $10000 for a registered FA. I don't have enough money to blow on that trigger setup or the ammo to have fun with it if it worked.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I am sorry, and don't mean to offend anyone.
But what is the sense of a Bump fire trigger ?
It just seems like a good way to waste ammo.
If you want Full Auto, then pay the tax and get yourself one.
I am a fan of Full Auto, but just cant get behind someone like a Tommy Tactical Guy doing bump fire and hitting nothing.
Back in the day, we called it Spray and Pray, or Accuracy by Volume

The political purpose of bump fire triggers is to blend the lines between what is full auto and restricted, and what is nearly full auto and unrestricted, with the hope that instead of ATF banning bump fire, they'll deregulate full auto. Its a pipe dream, but hey.

The last full auto rifle I saw was an AK-74, Krinkov, selling for $15,500. Most people don't have that sort of cash laying around for such frivolous discretions. But a few hundred for a new trigger group, yeah, I can justify that.

I've trained in burst fire with an M-16/M-4, and while it has its combat merits, the only realistic civilian application is.... FUN! That's still allowed, right? Or does fudd... I mean fun, have to cost $10,000 +?

Honestly, I don't have the desire for a full auto, simulated or otherwise, but this is coming from the guy who wants an M-79 grenade launcher, so to each their own and such.

 

[barnbwt]

Wow, Tackycon's still selling those? I thought after the nearly universal negative reviews that they'd have a hard time selling a second batch.

TCB

 

[Skylerbone]

I spoke with a local shop owner who installed one in his M&P Sport. Took him two mags to get the feel of it before he could dump all 30 continuously. Not a one-time event, he'd owned it for several months and was a big fan. Me, I could care less but as to the question of why, my State won't allow full auto so regardless of how deep my pockets are it simply isn't an option.

 

[yelseW]

This sounds very close the the "lightning link" but as i recall the ATF decided those were full auto devices. I could be quite wrong though.

 

[HexHead]

If you want Full Auto, then pay the tax and get yourself one.

A transferrable M16A1 is going to run about $20k, so it's not just "pay the tax".

 

[sharpcoolman]

Folks i believe it will be legal. It is still one pull per shot. The 3mr trigger just has a very short reset and so it allowed you to bob your trigger finger back and for in a rocking motion and that is what made it "appear" full auto. However the bolt is doing all the work when it comes back into battery forcing that trgigger to reset then your finger pulls it back again, and voila bumpfire with your trigger finger and not a stock.

 

[MachIVshooter]

This sounds very close the the "lightning link" but as i recall the ATF decided those were full auto devices. I could be quite wrong though.

The lightning link was true FA, just removed the selective fire option; when installed, it was FA only. The LL doesn't assist in bump firing, it actually drops the hammer when the bolt carrier hits it.

 

[barnbwt]

This sounds very close the the "lightning link" but as i recall the ATF decided those were full auto devices. I could be quite wrong though.

The Tac-Con trigger works by forcibly resetting the trigger against the user's finger (yes, trigger slap is now a 500$ feature ) when the hammer comes back. The trigger itself is very light (4lbs or so) so that very little subsequent pressure is needed to drop the hammer once more. The trigger's bouncing motion means the gun itself doesn't have to slide around in your grip to get the same effect as bump fire; that's the assist (not much of an assist, though, because if you pull the trigger too hard, you'll drop the hammer early and will get a misfire; too light and the firing ceases.) One more thing; the FCG is apparently prone to light strikes on the only ammo a plebian would bump-fire; steel case. Supposedly the super-light Giesselle match triggers are just as 'easy' to bump fire with if not more so, and are more reliable while doing so.

The ATF approved it because it doesn't work nearly as well as claimed; if it did, they'd have ruled it full auto (c'mon, guys )

TCB

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

You might want to look at this Open Letter from Bill
Akins of Akins Accelerator, and more importantly the comment letter by mike below it.
http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/reds-akins-open.htm
STW

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

The Tac-Con trigger has also been shown to be a piece of garbage and waste of money, check out some of the video reviews, geissele triggers can shoot faster

 

[wally]

The Tac-Con trigger has also been shown to be a piece of garbage and waste of money, check out some of the video reviews, geissele triggers can shoot faster

Jerry Miculek came very close to out shooting a full auto AK with a semi-auto gun for 30 rounds in an episode of Sons Of Guns. Didn't say what trigger he had.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the Tac-Con is not very good. Problem is with the tactile feedback its too easy to out run it and have the hammer effectively follow and get a no fire. I was really wanting it to work for .22lr but I can't do more than a 3 or 4 shot burst before I seem to out run it, leading to a no fire and unmarked rim. I'll suspend final judgment until I've tried it with 9mm, 5.56 and 7.62x39. If it runs OK in my 9mm SBR I'll be reasonably happy.


As an enhanced trigger it easily 2X over-priced if you can't get it to help you run faster.

OTOH while the Slide-Fires are pretty crappy stocks, they are easy to run (everyone I've let try has succeeded after a simple explanation of how it works) and have always been good for ear-to-ear grins afterwards. Unfortunately I've had no luck at all with the Slide-Fire and AR .22 uppers.

 

[fpgt72]

So does anyone that actually owns one have anything to say about it.

I fricken hate...well I saw it on youtube so it must be true. Yea right whatever. 90% of the stuff on boobtube is bs.

 

[wally]

So does anyone that actually owns one have anything to say about it.

I said what my initial experiences have been above.

Ran 200 rounds of .22lr through it today with no attempt to rapid fire in the "auto" position. Seems I was incorrect about it not reliably setting off .22lr as my fail to fire was low, typical of what I've been getting from the dregs of our .22lr ammo stash in other rifles and pistols. Wife and I went through 1000 .22lr shooting steel plates, great way to celebrate our anniversary!

Next time out I'll try rapid fire in .22lr and other uppers (9mm, 7.62x39, 5.56) and solidify my opinion of the Tac-Con.

 

[roklok]

I cant make any promises, but am actively working on getting this trigger into production, hopefully not too far into the future:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZfj6n_sN_8

As you can see, it works pretty darn well with a .22 LR upper.

 

[Jackal]

If you want a bump fire trigger for an AR, its called the Rubber Band. Its free, easy and legal.:banghead:

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

So does anyone that actually owns one have anything to say about it.

I fricken hate...well I saw it on youtube so it must be true. Yea right whatever. 90% of the stuff on boobtube is bs.

I tend to listen to reviews from well respected members of the firearms community to keep from spending an absurd amount of money on a piece of crap trigger so no, I don't actually own one. If you want to spend the money and let us know how it works feel free but plenty of people have reviewed the quality of it already.

 

[sharpcoolman]

Ok time to get back on track. This thread is about the legality of making a self setting trigger system for the ar. That way it works better than the 3mr. If i have working models selling them in the future is a possibility and i would sell them at a "reasonable" price every lawful gun owner deserves full auto or at least "almost" full auto.

 

[justice06rr]

If you can price it well under $300 you might have a good chance of the product being adopted in the civilian world.

For $300 I'd rather have the Bumpfire stock.

 

[barnbwt]

If you want a bump fire trigger for an AR, its called the Rubber Band. Its free, easy and legal.

Okay, good. I thought that picture was going to be of a rubber band (or shoelace) trick that is decidedly not legal. Stay safe, kiddies.

Ok time to get back on track. This thread is about the legality of making a self setting trigger system for the ar. That way it works better than the 3mr.

If it works better than the 3MR, I almost guarantee you the ATF Tech Branch will not approve it. The 3MR has been shown to be pitifully little beyond false advertising, so I'm not surprised in retrospect they were approved. If your system actually "works" that is because it is causing the firearm to behave as a machine gun; that's what a "working" rapid fire trigger does, by the most basic definition. The ATF has not been kind to systems that do anything beyond providing the most minimal of trigger assistance, and that's because an assisted trigger is a full auto mechanism.

I don't like the rules, I think they're bull; but so long as the Bureau's job is to keep us from accessing or building machine guns, I can't exactly expect them to bend the rules for us (or accommodate us in any way)

TCB

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The ATF required a small amount of reset be built into the 3MR so it does not really perform as the concept should. There are short-reset conventional triggers that bump fire just as well.

Mike