AR for AK advice...What would you do?

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Hokkmike

Hokkmike

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Help me out if you can. I am thinking out loud here.

I have an Essential Arms AR with stock military barrel, forearm, butt stock, issue bayonet, and sling. It was built up from a pre-ban kit. Some of you may know about the EA receivers built in Louisiana.

Well lubed it shoots fine and gives me fist sized accuracy off hand (iron sites) at 100 yards. I haven't really settled it down to see what it can do.

Anyhow, I am contemplating maybe trading it for a "better quality" AK-47.

I am a shorter smaller person and I like the fit of the AK. To me, the AK breaks down much more simply and is easier to maintain. It may not be important to most but I prefer the "looks" of the AK.

My AR, though, is of better quality and accuracy than AK's that I have owned or fired to-date - all of them of Romanian origin. It is not so "tinny" in appearance and feel.

I like the traditional Viet Nam era AK look.

Well, like I said, I am thinking out loud. Any advice on the matter?
 
If you trade for an AK, I hope you have one that has a trigger that is half as good as the trigger you can get for the AR.

All my AK triggers suck beyond description.
Loooooooonnnnng springy take-up and sudden, unpredictable break, followed by varying degrees of "slap."
 
What is your reason for owning the rifle/what do you plan to do with it? Hunting? Truck gun? SHTF Rifle? Home defense? Plinking? Target shooting? History aspect? Reliability? Economics?

What AK would you be trading for? The majority of AKs aren't worth the same amount as a low value AR15.

That said if you're only getting fist sized groups with an AR15 at 100 yards getting an AK will make them dinner plate sized at 100 yards. That is something to think about before switching.

Both the AR and AK have loads of after market parts and doodads for them. Though I prefer my AK without the tactical crap on it and just plain Jane in the wood style course I'm the same way with my AR15.
 
Originally posted by REOIV:
That said if you're only getting fist sized groups with an AR15 at 100 yards getting an AK will make them dinner plate sized at 100 yards. That is something to think about before switching.
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He did say first-sized groups off-hand. I do agree with you, though. :)



A converted Saiga will be among the best AK's you can get (from what I gather). Granted, it won't have that Vietnam-era look, but changing out furniture would be simple.

I think the thing to do is to keep your AR, save up the money, then buy the AK. I'll bet selling the AR would catch you a case of seller's remorse.
 
Get a Lancaster Consulting AK-47. If you can, get one with the 1.6mm (thicker) receiver. It'll have all wood furniture, including a thick wooden handgrip. Arsenal is consider the tops, but it'll have plastic furniture on it. Once you move above WASRs, the AKs start looking MUCH better. They all pretty much function equally though.
 
I think trading the AR for an AK is a losing proposition if you look at it economically (unless you go for a really high-end one), or in any analysis of capabilities. Don't get me wrong, I'm not stepping into the AR vs AK minefield, but a midrange AK (Bulgarian, etc) will do everything a high end AK will do besides look purty (and the bulgies are not ugly), and you can get a midrange AK for way less than you have in the AR. Ergo, you're losing money or trading for looks or logo.

That said, if that is what makes you happy, do it. I wouldn't, but that's me. If you want a really high-end AK, trade and get a really high end AK.

If I may make a suggestion? Look at the latest iteration of Krebs' KTR. The KTR-08 fixes the one shortcoming of the KTR-03, and if it is a nicely done as my -03, it will be one heck of a rifle.

Mike

Mike
 
Prince Yamato said:
If you can, get one with the 1.6mm (thicker) receiver.
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Why?

I see this advised all the time. Why is that?

The thicker receiver doesn't enhance accuracy (the bolt is locked to the barrel at the moment of ignition, and doesn't come unlocked until the bullet is far down range).

The thicker receiver doesn't enhance durability ( look at all the millions of AKMs out there with regular ol' 1.0mm receiver shells ).

It just adds "weight" to the equation.

The Yugos had good reasons to use 1.6mm receiver shells in their AKM variants, but enhanced accuracy or durability wasn't among them.

The only other Kalashnikov to have been designed with 1.6mm receivers were the light machine gun role RPKs.
 
I have an Essential Arms AR with stock military barrel, forearm, butt stock, issue bayonet, and sling. It was built up from a pre-ban kit. Some of you may know about the EA receivers built in Louisiana.
Click to expand...

im actually looking at a Essential arms lower right now, iv heard good things. any complaints?
 
To me the most important characteristic of a defensive rifle is reliability. I have tried ARs and was not satisfied with reliability. My defensive rifle now is a Saiga .223/5.56 that I converted to use Galil Orlite 35 round mags. Reliability is much better than ARs and accuracy is around 2 MOA. Plenty good for a defensive rifle. I do not let prejudices or preconceptions influence my decisions. They are based solely on my experiences with ARs and AKs. Oh...My Saiga will eat any kind of .223/5.56 ammo too.
Saiga20galil.gif
 
I'd say keep the AR and save up for an AK. Owning those two rifles gives you the best of both worlds. If you did trade, once the enjoyment of finally owning an AK wears off, you will wish that you had both, and probably end up buying another AR.

Just save up for a bit, do your research, and buy a nice AK that you will be proud to shoot.
 
Don't get an AK get a VZ58 and a crap load of ammo for it,

Milled construction, lighter than an AK or an AR, totally reliable, etc etc etc the AK improved into an entirly different gun by the Czechs, either add it yourself or have a smith add a Warsaw pact side mount optics rail to it, takes 5 minutes and $12 to do it yourself
 
Something to consider is that the VZ58's mags aren't nearly as common as AK mags. VZ58 mags are aluminum, too.

EDIT:
I stand corrected, as VZ58 mags are much easier to find than I initially realized.
 
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VZ58 mags are everywhere at $10 ea....... and G3 mags are alluminum as well....... I got some of those that saw duty in Africa and are still going good after years of my using em ontop of the abuse they already had.....

Don't assume that just cause YOU don't know about VZ58 mag availability that they are hard to come by.... they aren't they are actually very common and generally ya can get the leather pouch + 4 mags plus bayo and accesaries all day long from several vendors for $49 per package or $40 for mags and pouch, and unless YOU actually have experience with problems with Alluminum VZ58 mags then.... ya are simply talkin outa your hat etc... many many folks actually do have real experience with em and those would be the ones with something of actual value to add..... and so far none of us have anything but praise for the VZ58 and its very high quality mags... have you ever handled a VZ58? or are you just offering an opinion based on no experience?
 
If you trade for an AK, I hope you have one that has a trigger that is half as good as the trigger you can get for the AR.

All my AK triggers suck beyond description.
Loooooooonnnnng springy take-up and sudden, unpredictable break, followed by varying degrees of "slap."
Click to expand...
I've had just the opposite experience. I have a number of both rifles, and except for the match trigger on one of my Armalites, all my AK's triggers are, or have been, nicer than my AR's, and by a lot. This includes the crappy US parts trigger I swapped out for a RSA trigger due to trigger slap. It had fairly nasty slap, and was painful over time, but was still a nicer trigger than the AR's.

I'd say keep the AR and save up for an AK. Owning those two rifles gives you the best of both worlds.
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I agree. It allows you to stay proficient on both platforms and the AR's allow for more versatility with the right base rifle.

If you like the AK's length, try swapping the now standard "A2" stock for an old M16 or M16A1 length stock. It has the same LOP as the standard length AK stocks.

That said if you're only getting fist sized groups with an AR15 at 100 yards getting an AK will make them dinner plate sized at 100 yards.
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If your realistically comparing rifles, a basic AR vs a basic AK, (not a match grade AR against a SAR) the basic rifles shoot about the same out to their realistic effective range of about 300 yards, especially if your shooting from field positions. The AR is the better target rifle, especially past 300 yards, but the AK will keep right up, especially if its red doted like many AR's are these days.

If your AK wont shoot 3-4" at 100 yards with ammo it likes, from a field position, its probably not the guns fault.



If you want the Viet Nam era look, your kind of limiting yourself to whats available.

I personally would avoid any of the rifles that are assembled here from a kit, especially if you want a shooter.

The guns made/barreled in the factories that make them for the issuing countries military are usually the better shooters, and that includes the SAR's and WSAR's.

Personally, the Saigas restored to pre-import configuration are about the best AK's going. Its about as close as you can get to a real Russian AK.
 
I have 1 M4 style frankengun - bushy receivers, other brands of other parts. Accurate, reliable, and fun (because it's accurate and reliable).

I have 2 Norinco SKSs. Crap triggers, but I'm about to do trigger jobs and bought TechSights for them. More accurate than my MAC90. Reliable as heck. Just as tough. Accurate enough, reliable, and fun (because they're reliable and cheap).

I have a Norinco MAC90, 1.6mm metal (so what?). Accumulated a bunch of magazines. Very sweet trigger. Cant hit crap. Reliable as heck. But if it isn't accurate, it's not fun to shoot.

As soon as I get around to it, guess which one I'm gonna sell. That's right - the MAC90. If it's not fun, it stays in the safe or gets sold.
 
I have a pre-ban Essential Arms. I sold the worn out upper soon after I bought it and put a Bushmaster on with a removeable carry handle and a put a "CAR-15" style barrel on it. It runs really well.

Anyway, I don't see why you would trade the EA in on the AK. I'm with a lot of the others on here. My suggestion would be to go out and buy an ordinary AK and build it up into something you want and keep the AR because you will regret getting rid of it :cool:
 
Originally posted by dstorm1911:
VZ58 mags are everywhere at $10 ea....... and G3 mags are alluminum as well....... I got some of those that saw duty in Africa and are still going good after years of my using em ontop of the abuse they already had.....

Don't assume that just cause YOU don't know about VZ58 mag availability that they are hard to come by.... they aren't they are actually very common and generally ya can get the leather pouch + 4 mags plus bayo and accesaries all day long from several vendors for $49 per package or $40 for mags and pouch, and unless YOU actually have experience with problems with Alluminum VZ58 mags then.... ya are simply talkin outa your hat etc... many many folks actually do have real experience with em and those would be the ones with something of actual value to add..... and so far none of us have anything but praise for the VZ58 and its very high quality mags... have you ever handled a VZ58? or are you just offering an opinion based on no experience?

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In my experience, VZ58 mags aren't everywhere like AK mags are. I stand corrected, however, as they apparently are much easier to get than I realized.

Also, I wasn't bashing them for being made of aluminum. I was simply observing a fundamental difference between the magazines of the two respective firearms. I apologize if my post came across that way.
 
AK103K

WASRs and SARs are NOT the same as issued to any troops anywhere in the world..... they are made from components that did not meet the milspec requirements, the ONLY way you can get an AK made from the same quality components as issued to any military is a parts set built gun....

this is a totally wore out Romanian 1964 non G kit built on the absolute cheapest USA receiever available..... an NDS3, it took me all of 45 minutes to rivet together and reinstall the barrel in front of a bunch of Pima county deputies to demonstrate just how fast one could be assembled and put into action........ it was using ALL original parts with zero USA components aside from the reciever headspace tested way loose and closed on a field guage but after 23+ years experience building em I knew it was still safe so didn't swap the bolt till later, it was assembled EXACTLY as it arrived in the USA before being cut up.... there is a full artical about it on Surplusrifleforum.com with pics showing how totally wore out it is......... each group is a full 20 round mag at 100 yards kneeling with sling rapid fire, and if ya'll notice...... I didn't even clean it prior to the "shoot out" which was against a dept officer using an AR 15 BTW, Note the cosmoline still around the muzzle nut etc.... just riveted it together at a plastic folding table with a pair of bolt cutter crushers and an air hammer with rivet dimple bit and a steel plate for a bucking bar.... far from the care that goes into normal builds for personal use or sale etc... yet 2 twenty round mags and a totally shot out AK still going.......

DSC03029.jpg

DSC03031-1.jpg

DSC03032-1.jpg

DSC03065.jpg

DSC03068.jpg

BTW....... other than the USA made reciever...... ya can't tell a difference between a reassembled kit gun and one made in the "factory" other than the kit gun will usually get more care in its reassembly than it did originally, we builders go through and take the time to correct all the arsenal flaws like straightening canted sight blocks and gas blocks (which these military grade guns shipped with before arriving on USA soil and being cut up at a customs warehouse to make em legal as parts sets as issued they are full of flaws in workmanship and fit and finish. as a result of the arsenals being manned by poverty level workers being forced to put in 15-18 hour days very very little pay etc... as built at the factory is the worst condition to get a COMMUNIST weapon bar none when ya think communist factory quality especially today think in terms of ya going down to the nearest slum and finding some stranger under a bridge and payin him to assemble ya a gun.... ... the USA Builder fixes all of that...... including tightening up headspace when we re install the barrel which is almost always at the far end of tolerences as built in the factory for reliable feeding of poor quality ammo etc...

yea an AK will never shoot huh? its more about who is squeezing the trigger than it is the gun
 
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WASRs and SARs are NOT the same as issued to any troops anywhere in the world.....
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But I believe they are assembled by the same factory that make the guns for those that are issued. They are not barreled or assembled here, other than compliance parts. None of the AK's the general public see out there are the same "as issued", regardless who makes or imports them. Then again, same goes for most all of them, AR's, FAL's, HK91's, etc. Generally though, the ones that work and shoot the best, are the ones made by the factories that make the ""issue" guns for their respective militaries.

All my HK's, FN's, Colts, etc. worked flawlessly, cant say the same for the "kits" I've owned that copied them.

You seem to have it down, but there are a lot more out there that dont have a clue. Big ads in Shotgun News or Gun List only means that you have the money to advertise, not necessarily the know how to make them work. It doesnt take many dogs to become cynical. Personally, I wont buy another kit gun unless I get to shoot the snot out of it first.


I'll assume that you zeroed that gun after the build before you shot those groups, or are you "that" good? :D


yea an AK will never shoot huh? its more about who is squeezing the trigger than it is the gun
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Absolutely. Most any gun is more capable than your average "shooter", including the AK's.

200 yards using a SAR1 with slightly canted sights and Wolf 154 grain SP's. Shot form a cross legged sitting position at a steady cadence. The bottom group was from a rest to confirm zero.

ry%3D300.jpg

200 yard prone groups chasing zero....

ry%3D300.jpg

Saiga AK103K with Ultimak/Aimpoint at 100 yards

ry%3D300.jpg
 
SimpleIsGood229
The 20 inch barrel is no problem at all to me. I think it balances the rifle better. Saiga quality is very good. I can also break blaze orange clay pidgeons at 110 yards with open sights very easily. Thanks...........:D
 
FMJMike,

What grip is that on your Saiga?

I like your set up, clean and simple
 
Do not trade your AR for an AK. In fact, it is my general policy to never sell a firearm unless it is for a profit. Buy an AK, but do not trade off your AR. If the logic behind the trade is that the AK and the AR are in the same class and will do the same job the same way, you really should shoot them both more.
 
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