Ar Pistol as "truck gun"

[SVTOhio]

I'd like to to start out as saying I exclusively use tapatalk for the forum so I apologize for not searching the forums for this topic as tapatalk does not search well. Secondly I do not want this to be a debate on whether or not it's a good idea to have a test gun, risk of it being stolen, no need ect ect.

Now to the question at hand. I have been thinking about adding a Ar pistol to use as a truck gun. The laws here Ohio make carrying a loaded rifle/ loaded mags with rifle hard to do legally. But being a CCW holder I would be able to have a loaded ar pistol in the vehicle without any legal issues.

I know the chances of me winning the lottery twice is probably greater then me ever needing to use said weapon, but this will be a peace of mind carry. On a daily basis I carry a ruger Lcr 38 in the summer months and a sp101 during the colder months.? I do not own any semi automatic handguns.

Just to add the gun would be housed in s pelican cast under the passenger seat with several extra mags. And my vehicle is only ever driven by my lady (CCW holder) and myself and we rarely have passengers.
Thoughts from the high road?


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[Sam1911]

If you can articulate a credible threat that you would NEED 5.56mm ammo and extended range capability to engage -- in a lawful use of lethal force ...

--AND--

... you've practiced with such a weapon so much that you actually can engage targets with it faster and with greater precision than you can your sidearm (which is no small feat) ...

--AND--

... you have some realistic plan or scenario in mind wherein you're under immediate lethal threat, BUT you're near enough your vehicle to get to it, AND you can't just drive away in it, AND you somehow still have time to dig out the pelican case, unlock it, open it, and engage the "immediate" lethal threat ...

... then sure. Go ahead.

Very few people can put all those puzzle pieces together, though.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've had an AR pistol and found it not that practical for anything. I'd be more likely to keep a traditional handgun with extended magazines in my car, or a full sized AR. If it's cased then you'd have time to load anyway.

 

[spur0701]

If I remember correctly one of the arguments for AR pistols is that in certain states it allows a person with a CCW to carry a loaded "pistol" that can arguable be used as a carbine.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If I remember correctly one of the arguments for AR pistols is that in certain states it allows a person with a CCW to carry a loaded "pistol" that can arguable be used as a carbine.

And it may be a felony to do so, especially if you are planning to use it in such a manner. That would be intent.

I think 460Kodiak understands the situation well. Before the ATF passed down their ruling about buttstock used on pistols (such as the Sig brace being used as a buttstock), a buddy of mine built a nice AR pistol. As a carbine, he could shoot with it very well. Since the ruling, he can only shoot it like a pistol. Recoil tends to be a bit wild. Sighting is awkward. There are no accurate double taps. Noise pressure is damaging. It just isn't a pleasant or particularly tactical gun to shoot. Short of a LOT of practice with it, and I do mean a LOT of practice, I would not want to rely on one in a self defense situation where shots needed to be landed on target.

Just to add the gun would be housed in s pelican cast under the passenger seat with several extra mags.

Well then, it will be virtually useless to you in all but the rarest of situations because guns under seats in pelican cases to not provide the ready access to firepower demanded by the immediacy of most crisis situations.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If I remember correctly one of the arguments for AR pistols is that in certain states it allows a person with a CCW to carry a loaded "pistol" that can arguable be used as a carbine.

While that may be true, does it matter? If you have a gun cased and would need to take the time to get the gun out of said case, wouldn't you also have time to pull the charging handle too?

If you need a gun quickly, a handgun with a high capacity magazine that is accessible is going to be far more useful.

If I were goignt o do anything like this, I'd probably go with a CZ scorpion pistol as they shoot a cheaper round, are lighter, and typically less expensive. I'd me most likely to keep a Glock with a high cap magazine at hand. If confiscated or stolen, they are inexpensive and easy to come by.

 

[badkarmamib]

I'm with 460Kodiak. I built an AR pistol for the same purpose, as well as for backpack carry while hiking. After trying to be proficient with it, I came to realize that a Glock (not that I own one, just using it as an example) with 33-round magazines was more maneuverable in a vehicle, was smaller and lighter, was easier to aim, and could double for CCW with standard-capacity mags. So, I traded my AR pistol for a 1911 full-size, and never regretted it. If I decide I need more rounds later, I would still look at a pistol that is available with extended mags.

 

[SVTOhio]

While that may be true, does it matter? If you have a gun cased and would need to take the time to get the gun out of said case, wouldn't you also have time to pull the charging handle too?



If you need a gun quickly, a handgun with a high capacity magazine that is accessible is going to be far more useful.



If I were goignt o do anything like this, I'd probably go with a CZ scorpion pistol as they shoot a cheaper round, are lighter, and typically less expensive. I'd me most likely to keep a Glock with a high cap magazine at hand. If confiscated or stolen, they are inexpensive and easy to come by.

In Ohio a gun is considered loaded if the mags are loaded so carrying a full size ar is not an option. Also building a at pistol will typically cost 2/3 of what the CZ will cost. I also already have the mags/ammo on hand. Worst case scenario if I don't like the at pistol I can sell the barrel and buffer and make it into a rifle.

 

[bannockburn]

I would think that an AR pistol under the stated circumstances (in a Pelican case underneath the passenger's seat), would be difficult, awkward, and somewhat time consuming to get to, let alone get into action. My first thought in terms of a truck gun would be something like a Glock 19 with an extended magazine if one feels the need for a great deal of extra firepower in a compact package.

 

[C0untZer0]

My "Truck" gun is primarily meant for dealing with a carjacking. Its immediately accessible and it can be used within the vehicle.


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[SVTOhio]

My "Truck" gun is primarily meant for dealing with a carjacking. Its immediately accessible and it can be used within the vehicle.


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I will have my current CCW weapon for that circumstance. This guns primary "use" will be for situations in which I will need to use as a "get home gun" . As a peace of mind that I have extra fire power available if needed. I know the chances of that happening are very very very slim to impossible for that need to arise. I live in a rural setting in northern Ohio but work in a city that is a outcrop of Cleveland and has many many lost souls. I work for 24hrs at a time as well. If any kind of civil unrest/rioting were to threaten my life while I try to leave the city I would want some fire power that my 5 shot 38s cannot provide. I may be young and dumb and have not seen heated elections like this is the past but the level of hate on both sides is worry some. I will be right in the middle of the upcoming RNC as well.

 

[Sam1911]

Ok, well, if you want to, and you've decided that there's a reason, and you're certain that your plan is legal, sounds like you've made your decision.



I'm reminded of one of our members' sig lines that says something to the effect of most folks asking for advice are looking for confirmation of their own ideas, not truth.

 

[SVTOhio]

Ok, well, if you want to, and you've decided that there's a reason, and you're certain that your plan is legal, sounds like you've made your decision.



I'm reminded of one of our members' sig lines that says something to the effect of most folks asking for advice are looking for confirmation of their own ideas, not truth.

That's what everyone asking advise wants lol

 

[Scionti95]

Own a Sig MPX and would never consider it a "truck gun". Not planning on getting a stamp to SBR it, so shooting it strictly as a pistol, (even a vertical fore grip not permitted;angle fore grip okay) is a challenge if you are interested in POA. Forget accuracy with double or triple taps. Have a CC and carry my .380 or 9mm in condition one while in my truck. Machine pistols are to bulky to deal with inside a vehicle. Keep my MPX handy when in my workshop.

 

[yugorpk]

I SBR pretty much everything and have a 10.5" SBR AR as a truck gun. Maybe $700 in the thing stamp included. $200 tax isnt much in the greater scheme of things and I dont have to worry about shouldering my "pistol" in a time of need and getting cuffed before I could get a shot off.

 

[reddog81]

I've never shot an AR pistol but I've been in a room at a range where a dude was shooting one. It was the most obnoxious thing I've ever experienced. The blast and concussion was terrible. I can't imagine being near one without doubled up hearing protection. Additionally I imagine trying to access it and get it into action would be difficult inside a vehicle.

 

[ajandrs]

This guns primary "use" will be for situations in which I will need to use as a "get home gun" . As a peace of mind that I have extra fire power available if needed.

If confirmation is what you seek then I would agree with what you have proposed. I too have plans for a more compact AR (can't decide between a 10.5" or 12.5") whose primary purpose would be to get me home in the event of some kind of SHTF scenario ... no matter how slim that scenario is. Personally mine wouldn't be an EDC type thing since I live and work in a smaller town and getting home shouldn't be too much of a problem, but throwing it in the trunk every day is an option. My purpose would rather be to take with me whenever leaving town. Currently if I leave town for whatever reason I take my CCW obviously, plus spare mags and extra ammo, depending on where I'm going I may even take an extra handgun plus more mags and ammo. Again, purely as "get home" insurance.

For me I will put a pistol brace on it (several options to choose from these days) and not worry about shouldering the thing if I have to use it because it's a SHTF gun, if the S does hit the F no one is going to be worried about BATF compliance.

For all of you about to flame me for saying that ... 1) I don't even have it built yet, and 2) I have no intention of unlawfully using it, ever. But in a SHTF scenario I will have no problem setting that thing firmly in my shoulder if my life depends on it.




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[tallpaul]

If you can articulate a credible threat that you would NEED 5.56mm ammo and extended range capability to engage -- in a lawful use of lethal force ...

Why would you need to articulate anything ?

if it is a pistol it is legal under the ccw laws- at least until they make changes. And there are no legal reasons to not shoot at longer range if you feel endangered. Range is not a legal factor if the need to defend oneself is legitimate.

 

[mountaindrew]

I'm going to chime in opposite from others experience. I have an AR pistol, 10.5 in barrel and a Thordsens customer cheek rest. I can get a good cheek weld, without the buffer on my shoulder at all and achieve accuracy on par with my 16" carbine for the first shot. follow ups are a little slower, as without the stock to brace, the recoil moves the gun a little bit more, but accuracy and speed is far superior to any "normal" handgun, and much closer to the rifle/carbine side of the spectrum. also, in a broke down state, it can be stored in a case that in no way advertises a gun inside, and can be reassembled with two pins in a matter of seconds. It is loud, or so i've heard, because the linear compensator I use deflects all sound and blast away from me the shooter and really works. I think it is ideal for a truck gun. Now, it is not fast enought ot get into action in a carjacking, or something like that, but the ccw is for those situations.

 

[Sam1911]

Why would you need to articulate anything ?

In this instance I simply used the phrase to mean, "tell yourself," or "convince yourself". As in, can you explain what purpose it would serve -- what situation it would be called upon to solve -- which other firearms you might be carrying would not serve in a vastly more efficient and more likely manner?

Also, articulate can be understood here to mean, "hey bud, you brought up the topic for discussion and you seem to be really keen on the idea so if our advice to the contrary doesn't suit you, can you articulate, to us, why we're incorrect?"

if it is a pistol it is legal under the ccw laws- at least until they make changes. And there are no legal reasons to not shoot at longer range if you feel endangered. Range is not a legal factor if the need to defend oneself is legitimate.

Well, sort of. You'd better have more to go on than that you "feel endangered." You'd better be able to PROVE that there was a credible, lethal, threat to your life and that you had no better options left than to fire a weapon at someone.

If you're under a credible threat from very long range, your chances of surviving are greatly increased if you MOVE and/or LEAVE, not so much if you hang around and extract your cased truck rifle-handgun and attempt to acquire a target and return fire. If the threat from long range was very serious, you'll be dead by then. To say nothing of the increased legal scrutiny you fall under when you try to explain why getting out your gun and shooting it out was what a reasonable person would have felt the most appropriate action to be. Any time you have a CHOICE about whether you fire a lethal weapon at someone your self-defense claim gets sketchy and harder to prove. And extended distance between you and a threat is certainly a factor that increases your choices about how to react.

Not to say that there aren't, somewhere, somehow, sometime, situations in the peacetime USA where a person couldn't find themselves faced with certain death if they don't return fire at long range, but they're REALLY danged few, and they tend to be so exceptional that they become legendary.

 

[Sam1911]

but accuracy and speed is far superior to any "normal" handgun,

That's one of those "you'd best explain" sort of statements. Accuracy and speed of WHAT, exactly?

Inside a dozen or so yards, that statement would be very hard to support, as few experienced shooters can manipulate and connect with a rifle with the speed and fluidity that they can with a handgun at those "fighting" ranges -- all other things being equal.

Outside of that range the picture starts to change and certainly rifles are both easier and faster to get hits with on targets out at longer range (for most people).

And when hampered by the shortcomings of a stockless, "cheek-weld" type weapon that doesn't tend to improve.

So when you say, "but accuracy and speed [are] far superior to any "normal" handgun," what ranges, what targets, how have you measured this, what are your times, what starting position, what drills are you shooting to get these times, etc?

 

[Browning]

I'd personally prefer a higher cap full size pistol and several Mags to an AR pistol for self defense out of a vehicle

1) I know we're not supposed to talk about it but my AR pistol costs more than a Glock 17 does if stolen.

2) A pistol is easier to wield within the confines of the cab of my truck.

3) I can shoot a pistol one-handed if need be much easier than I can an AR pistol while I use the other hand to hopefully drive away from danger.

4) A grand jury or a jury might not look at me like a 3 headed Martian the way they probably would if they hauled my AR pistol into court.

Plus, let's be honest...if being shot at no one I know who has an AR pistol is going to worry about cheeking it.

 

[yugorpk]

That's one of those "you'd best explain" sort of statements. Accuracy and speed of WHAT, exactly?

Inside a dozen or so yards, that statement would be very hard to support, as few experienced shooters can manipulate and connect with a rifle with the speed and fluidity that they can with a handgun at those "fighting" ranges -- all other things being equal.

Outside of that range the picture starts to change and certainly rifles are both easier and faster to get hits with on targets out at longer range (for most people).

And when hampered by the shortcomings of a stockless, "cheek-weld" type weapon that doesn't tend to improve.

So when you say, "but accuracy and speed [are] far superior to any "normal" handgun," what ranges, what targets, how have you measured this, what are your times, what starting position, what drills are you shooting to get these times, etc?

All true. A handgun at short range is MUCH easier to manipulate. If you are shooting at someone at a range you NEED a rifle I'm thinking you might have some splainin' to do later on.

 

[thewillweeks]

This is something I've been really wondering about as well, specifically because it can be carried concealed unlike a rifle. I work on a ranch, to be able to toss a 11" barrel 556 pistol in the truck behind the seat would be really nice if I could shoot it even close to as a well as a rifle.

BUT....I've yet to be convinced without shoulder welding an AR/AK/MSR pistol that it is possible to shoot them all that much better than any other handgun with appropriate sights. So, I don't have one yet. And don't have any huge urgent plans to acquire one.

 

[Sam1911]

The nice thing is that you can build one and see what you think, then if it doesn't work as well as you'd like, changing it into something that does work for you is either a simple barrel swap and stock change, or $200 and a little paperwork so you can add a stock to your shorty.