Ar Pistol as "truck gun"

[Zaydok Allen]

In Ohio a gun is considered loaded if the mags are loaded so carrying a full size ar is not an option. Also building a at pistol will typically cost 2/3 of what the CZ will cost. I also already have the mags/ammo on hand. Worst case scenario if I don't like the at pistol I can sell the barrel and buffer and make it into a rifle.

Ah, I see your point given the loaded magazine restriction, and if you can resell it easily enough then maybe it's worth a try. If there's any way possible though, shoot one before you invest. A sling is helpful to help stabilize it. A holo sight is also helpful.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've never shot an AR pistol but I've been in a room at a range where a dude was shooting one. It was the most obnoxious thing I've ever experienced. The blast and concussion was terrible.

Yep, plenty loud and really pretty irritating. A muzzle device that directs the noise forward can help the shooter.

 

[fireman 9731]

I have a PLR-16 that I thought about using as a truck gun. With a sling and a red dot it is certainly fast and effective. The iron sights on it are actually useful too. Its a lot of fire power in a compact package.

That being said, it is very loud and blasty, needs to be used with two hands to be used effectively, and it would certainly draw a lot of attention in the court room if you actually had to use it.

As a primary weapon, I think its not a wise choice. When it comes to having something to pop a coyote and fit in the map pocket behind your seat though, it would work well enough.

 

[yugorpk]

I shoot AR 15 SBR's every weekend. 7 1/2" up to 14 " barrels in 5.56 and 300 BO. I have no idea what you mean by loud because I have these things called ear plugs. They work great. If theres going to be any obnoxious effects from short barrel AR's its going to be from useless muzzle brakes that direct the blast to the side. No need for those things with a .223.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

BUT....I've yet to be convinced without shoulder welding an AR/AK/MSR pistol that it is possible to shoot them all that much better than any other handgun with appropriate sights. So, I don't have one yet. And don't have any huge urgent plans to acquire one.

I was able to pepper a man sized target at 40 yards or so fairly quickly, but that involved a lot of quickish trigger pulls, my hit ratio was probably only around 70%, and I was shooting patterns, not groups. That was at a stationary target also, not a moving threat. I realized after about 1000 rounds that the amount of practice to become proficient with the gun was going to be cost prohibitive in ammo terms, and I just didn't have a practical use for it. Other more experienced shooters would do a lot better than I, and if I had been more dedicated I would have become a lot more proficient, but I still couldn't figure what I needed to accomplish with that gun that I wouldn't be able to accomplish with a good traditional handgun. Personally, I'm usually hitting fast and accurately enough for responsible self defense shooting with a traditional handgun after about 250 rounds. I viewed that extra learning curve to not be worth the cost. So from some folks stand point, I probably gave up too quickly.

It's certainly possible to become truly proficient with one of these guns, but it takes time, money, and patience. I'm just a lot faster with a revolver or traditional semiauto gun.

The truth is that it was my way of scratching the SBR itch without registering or paying for an SBR. But in the end, it didn't scratch the itch at all. It wasted money, made me realize I don't need an SBR, but it did provide a bit of fun. If I really wanted a short riffle now, I'd get a Tavor. Of course that doesn't solve the OP's loaded magazine issue.

 

[george burns]

I carry all the time, and have for 48 yrs.. When leaving home, I add a glock 26 or 19, to my 9mm PM9 "pocket gun". I carry an extended ghost mag in it and night sights. I also have a TLR for it at night. I keep 3 mags for each gun, including a 31 rounder for either.
If I get into more trouble than 70-100 rounds won't get me out of, then there is probably not much more I can do.
Since my wife won't carry, I take the PM9 for her. If someone were shooting at her she would shoot back, "I know my wife". I have given much thought lately to getting an AR pistol, "I have a rifle". but it's a lot of gun with a dot on it, even in the 7.5 inch configuration. That Keltec carbine might be a better idea, along with my normal stuff.
Or something smaller that is similar to it, I think we are going to see a lot of new guns come out to address this issue. But for now, I will stick to my Glocks with 20-30 round mags, that I can fire quickly and accurately.

 

[FAS1]

This is a PAP M92 used in a similar way. 20 round magazine inserted and two 30 round magazines inside.

 

[Ellsnjel]

Are stripper clips considered magazines in Ohio? You could get an SKS or FN49 or have some 5.56 on stripper clips and them load a magazine with them in the event you need it. Seems more practical than an AR hand gun

 

[SVTOhio]

This is a PAP M92 used in a similar way. 20 round magazine inserted and two 30 round magazines inside.

I love the looks of that!

 

[GRIZ22]

To the OP. HB495 was passed and a loaded magazine is not a firearm in Ohio. It's been that way for over 3 years now. Check buckeyefirearms.org.

Put a 16" barrel AR in your truck. AR and AK pistols are range toys IMO and won't solve anything a Glock 17 or Beretta 92 can't do. The Glock and the Beretta are also easier to shoot better.

 

[SVTOhio]

To the OP. HB495 was passed and a loaded magazine is not a firearm in Ohio. It's been that way for over 3 years now. Check buckeyefirearms.org.

Put a 16" barrel AR in your truck. AR and AK pistols are range toys IMO and won't solve anything a Glock 16 or Beretta 92 can't do. The Glock and the Beretta are also easier to shoot better.

Interesting. Several publications were quoting the law prior to this new change. I guess this question is answered and a 16 inch ar will be stored in my jeep. Of course I will have to keep it unloaded at all times but I'm now allowed to have the mags in the vehicle as well.

 

[entropy]

To the OP. HB495 was passed and a loaded magazine is not a firearm in Ohio. It's been that way for over 3 years now. Check buckeyefirearms.org.

Put a 16" barrel AR in your truck. AR and AK pistols are range toys IMO and won't solve anything a Glock 16 or Beretta 92 can't do. The Glock and the Beretta are also easier to shoot better.

How do you shoot a plastic utensil? Glock pistol nomenclature starts at 17.

BTW, SVTOhio, I'd look into that Draco in the mini-safe. Nice Rig.

 

[GRIZ22]

entropy, fast typing, small screen, need better proofreading. I corrected that to 17. I suppose you didn't know what I meant. I'm sure you never made a typo error.

 

[swede4198]

I too live in Ohio and have a 8" AR-15 pistol as a SHTF get home gun. I have one that will fit into a bag that looks like a tennis racket case which allows me to have a 20 round mag in the gun. It is not for quick action inside of my truck but for when conditions are very bad and you are away from home. My gun has a Sig brace , Eotech sight, BUIS and a flying pig type comp. I can hit man sized targets at 125 yards almost as well as with a carbine. In a riot, terrorist attack, or an EMP event I doubt anyone would be willing to take you to court prove you didn't hold the brace a 1/4 inch off your shoulder. By the same token I do not shoot it at a public ranges, only at my or friends ranges (I have a farm in SW Ohio).

 

[Double Naught Spy]

That is interesting, swede. I have yet to meet a single person who can shoot an AR pistol nearly as well as a carbine without actually shooting it like a carbine. Several folks have brought them to my range. The general consensus is that even at 100 yards, a regular pistol is quicker for followup shots.

 

[franco45]

I live in a rural setting in northern Ohio but work in a city that is a outcrop of Cleveland and has many many lost souls. I work for 24hrs at a time as well.

So do you really think it's a good idea to leave this rig in your car under these circumstances?

 

[franco45]

I've been looking hard at the Micro Roni pistol to carbine conversion with stabilizing brace. it's currently available for Glocks (17 and 19) and will be available for Beretta 92s and PX4s as well as Springfields, M+P's and several other popular pistols.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R12L3wikYgI

 

[swede4198]

Many cars and trucks have compartments large enough to hide an AR pistol. As long as you lock your car/truck and leave nothing of value out where someone can see it through the windows you have no greater risk of having a break in compared to anyone else.

 

[swede4198]

This is not my normal AR which is a 16" with the exact same set up except for a collapsible stock. The pistol is like the spare tire on your car, to be used only when needed.

 

[JShirley]

Inside a dozen or so yards, that statement would be very hard to support, as few experienced shooters can manipulate and connect with a rifle with the speed and fluidity that they can with a handgun at those "fighting" ranges -- all other things being equal.

Source? I'll take a carbine every day if I have to fight a threat over 3 meters away, and I'd still prefer a carbine at 2 meters, it's just hard to conceal.

I have thousands of 5.56x45mm fired at close range in the Army, so it's not like I'm just blue-skying here.

Personally, Sam, I would wonder how you quantify "experienced shooters", since I'm certain 90%+ of shooters will "manipulate and connect" with a rifle better at all ranges of 5 meters and more, unless by "manipulate" you are talking about producing a weapon from concealment.
----

To the OP and others, I'd suggest tailoring your selection to your mission. For carjacking defense, an instantly accessible handgun is of course preferable. For serious work like an invasion of alligators or wild dogs, or rabid wallabies, of course the AR pistol would be more capable, once in play. Blast would be a serious concern of mine.

John

 

[Sam1911]

I know that, and I know that you and I have different experiences on that matter. I fire 1,000+ rounds of handgun ammo for ever round of rifle ammo I shoot, so my opinions there are perhaps skewed. (Just as yours are perhaps as well, considering the Army doesn't go in very heavily for pistol training and you aren't an active handgun competition shooter.)


However, based on running a lot of matches where we've run the same courses of fire with carbines and with handguns, it is my observation that some radius exists for each shooter inside of which they'll be faster and smoother with a handgun, landing more hits on target quicker than they can with a carbine. Inside 3 meters? Maybe. Inside 12 yards? Maybe for some. Probably somewhere in between on average.

Of course, some folks are good enough with both that the differences become very small.

And some folks are terrible enough with either that the differences are moot!


Of course, in relating this to the OP's question, we would still perhaps be giving the AR "pistol" entity credit for approaching the ergonomic utility of a carbine which I think is wholly unwarranted.

 

[JShirley]

Of course, in relating this to the OP's question, we would still perhaps be giving the AR "pistol" entity credit for approaching the ergonomic utility of a carbine which I think is wholly unwarranted.

I agree.

I think your idea of what qualifies as an "experienced" shooter is based on (1)primarily IDPA shooters, who (2)probably focus much more on handgun shooting. As such, it doesn't seem reasonable to generalize that experience, whereas people going into the Army rarely come in as experienced shooters. I of course went in late, but I'd encourage you to do some research before concluding that handguns are faster at fighting than rifles.

Personally, I've supported genuine operators, and while they practiced quite a bit with their sidearms too, they were holding short carbines when they went in. If your observation was genuinely accurate, I'm pretty sure the ODA guys would have been holding their sidearms instead...but they weren't.

 

[Sam1911]

I can't disagree with that. I'll just point out that we've repeatedly set up timed stages to test just that question. Admittedly these are IDPA/USPSA shooters mostly, but also 2- and 3-gun shooters, and none of us are strangers to carbines (or shotguns).

What the exact reasons are that the sharp-end guys you've worked with choose to fight with a carbine over a handgun, even at short range, I'm sure I can only theorize about -- but I'd imagine that the facts that they put vastly more rounds through their M4s than their handguns, and that an across-the-room fight often will seamlessly flow into a down-the-street fight or an across-the-field fight probably have just as much to do with that as whether or not they would be (or could be) faster on close-in work with an M9.

EDIT: And, of course, if I'm going to be fighting 95% of the time with a carbine, I'm not going to sling it and transition to a handguns every time I enter a doorway. The differences in speed aren't nearly worth the time and hassle, and bother of a swinging slung carbine hanging between your knees. If you're going to be carrying the rifle in a combat zone, carrying on fighting with that gun under all circumstances only makes sense. Heck, if nothing else, a soldier carries at least 240 rounds of 5.56 right? As compared to maybe 30-45 rounds of 9mm FMJ? Lots of pluses for sticking with the carbine if that's your fighting gun.

It would be interesting to do some actual research into this. Figuring out how to control for experience/training differences, how to define or test a radius of effective dominance rifle-vs-handgun, etc.

 

[JShirley]

Oh, I'm actually talking about breaching into a house. Went in with their carbines.

I haven't done a lot of research on what good split times are, but here are a few links for consideration. Understand that the AK reload would have been at least twice as fast with an AR-15.

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/rifle-vs-pistol-faster/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytzM2OlBJY0

 

[kBob]

Swede,

But the spare on my truck is just another of the same tires I have on the wheels.

Thus I would prefer a carbine.

I hate those little donut spares that come on cars and vans for spares these days.

On the other hand with a service pistol I likely could, when I did it often, engage and hit say five eight inch targets at 15 meters as quickly as with a carbine. But I ain't everybody and likely could not do so now. I often did engage and hit kneeling man targets with a service pistol at 100 meters and even about a third to half of the time at 200 meters, but no doubt a carbine is quicker out there or likely anywhere beyond 25 meters.

I guess I am kind'a like WC Fields when I wants a handgun I wants a handgun and when I wants a rifle I wants a rifle. I have already been hammered for it around here but I am convinced that AR pistols and Krinkna pistols are the worst of both worlds and best of neither.

-kBob