AR15 25WSSM Deer Question?

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MJR007

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I was loading up (41g 380 / 117bt) for my 25WSSM Ar15 last night and was thinking why it has not caught on more in the AR15 world. It is very close to my favorite deer/coyote rifle 25-06. The biggest thing I can think of is the limited commercial ammo available and its cost. Sure outside of the AR world I see very little use for it. The short range AR15 thumpers 450/458/50 seem to be out selling the WSSM’s as well. Or is it my home state of NY we are limited to 5 round magazines in semi auto hunting rifles and other states don’t have this restriction making the 6.8/6.5/ 7.62 more appealing (the one upper do all thing). Any ideas?



(Please do not turn this into the 223 is/isn’t a deer round thread.)



Thanks.



Michael
 
I think it is the cost...that is why I sold my WSM rifle (Browning A-Bolt .270WSM), also the larger thumpers will put down a deer (or most anything in NA) a bit quicker IMO. The 6.5 OTOH is a better long range cartridge than just about anything in a AR platform. :)
 
Can the AR platform can handle a bolt face as large as the 25 WSSM?

The WSSM series of cartridges is already obsolescent. Neither Winchester nor Browning offer any rifles for them nowadays. Hard to believe that a new cartridge wouldn't last 5 years, but the Winchester factory transition did them in. Winchester still offers ammo, but we'll see how long that lasts.
 
partly because as you state, outside of the ar-world there isn't much appeal, and most rifles are not ar's, and because most people associate ar's w/ the 223.

also, 25 wssm was more or less doa from winchester. the shooting world was waiting breathlessly for a 25 wsm or 25 rsaum and then winchester laid the wssm egg in 25 cal. i still don't understand that move.

i loved how they marketed it: almost 25-06 performance... my retort has always been why settle for 'almost'? not like a 25-06 is such a hard kicker the shooter needs just a little edge taken off... if you're gonna go after an 'almost', why not go after the perceived 'best', 25 roy, and be almost as good as the best?

i dunno... the 25 wssm thought process just kills me...
 
Probably the biggest fly in the wssm AR15 ointment is getting hold of an upper. In a climate when you can't even latch onto a STD a2 bbl, bolt and receiver you can forget something as exclusive as a wssm.

If I were a betting man I'd wager there are backorders for 2x the number of WSSM uppers than have been made to date.

As for the cartridge, the AR15 platform is the ONLY platform that makes any sense whatsoever for the existence of the WSSM line at all.
 
In business school, they taught the rule of "2nd but better". The rule is simple: if you're not the first product on the market, you have to offer something that is substantially better than the products already available. Otherwise, why should the customer switch, or in this case, buy these products?
 
The 25 wssm is a great concept and a good cartridge however, it can't compete with the 257 weatherby and the 25'06 there fore it is pretty much obsolete.
 
Is there anything else that will fit in a mag of an AR15 close to the level of a 25WSSM?
 
The .25 WSSM definitely *IS* an interesting choice in the AR15 rifle. Having a lightweight semi with the power and trajectory of a .25-06 is an appealing concept. Dunno why it hasn't caught on more. Only speculations might be - mag capacity isn't as high as other rounds, expensive mags, (possible) unreliability of the round in an AR15??

Is there anything else that will fit in a mag of an AR15 close to the level of a 25WSSM?
Click to expand...

No, not in the form of a bottlenecked longrange round. Depending upon how you define "power" however, the .50 beowulf and similar either are or are not more "powerful".
 
Is there anything else that will fit in a mag of an AR15 close to the level of a 25WSSM?
Click to expand...
The 6.5 Grendel will get you the long range and gets fairly close in energy. :)
 
I am looking at 117g at 3000 25WSSM
I don't have one but see the 6.5 123g at 2400

BC not going to over come that. It needs water volume...

6.5 will put more in the mag. I am hunting unarmed stuff with four legs.

I would like to see long term data on a AR15 WSSM rifle.
 
I don't have one but see the 6.5 123g at 2400
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Should be about 2600fps out of a 20" bbl...and some claim to have pushed it to about 2900fps. More importantly it can be formed from cheap 7.62x39 brass, a claim that the WSSMs cannot make. From the looks of it the WSSMs will not last for than a decade or so at best, though I think the WSMs will last much longer, and may be here to stay. :)
 
Maverick223, thank you. Again my data is off my rifle 24" not loaded hot. I agree the fate of the WSSM is in the mag of the AR15. Thank you for the feed back.

Michael
 
NP Michael, keep in mind that I have not loaded this (and haven't a 6.5G at all) so take it with a grain of salt. I think the price is the biggest factor, not so much the no. of rounds (but that doesn't help matters). :)
 
the grendel will fit in a regular ar mag, and it uses most of the regular ar 15 size parts for everything else. Also, remington is coming out with a 30AR, maybe the ulitimate hunter. It fits into the standard ar 15 envelope, but with a diff size bbl, and diff bolt face. all other parts are the same, and interchangeable.
it is a 110 or 120 grain bullet, much like the 762 russian, and is a bit downloaded heatwise from a regular 308. it was rated at about 2500 fps from the muzzle.
This could be the hit of the party for all around usage, since the grendel folks, and the 6.8 spc folks can't seem to work it out.
 
Ha ha the 123 grendel at 2900 fps; that's a good one (that "some" claim as you mention) - that's more vel than a .260 rem from a 24 test bbl in max loads. It also won't make the 2600 from the grendel in a 20" bbl. 2450 maybe; 2500 maaaaaaybe.

I think the .25 WSSM has considerably more performance with the fat case.
 
Doc, you are right again, it is from a 24" bbl...I was going off of memory (which failed, I need to add a couple of Gbs :D ) :banghead:
 
Good; I have tried my best to not get an ar, unless I could get another cartridge, but it would have to fit in the ar15 envelope. So if you get one, try and give us a full report.
 
Maverick, I wasn't implying that you were wrong; just that the peeps who claim those crazy vels are either lying or have malfunctioning chronos.

Grendel / 123 / 2900, man that's a knee-slapper! :) :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the heads up on the 30RAR. The 30RAR has 44.0gr water case capacity while the 25WSSM has 50.0 (6.5 has 35gr). It seems Remington is using the Oly system (barrel extension & bolt) as the WSSM. In trying to design a big game cartridge for an AR15 Remington has totally screwed up.

Now if they just came out with a 260WSSM and a 308WSSM

Am I wrong about the 30RAR?
 
Now if they just came out with a 260WSSM and a 308WSSM
Click to expand...

I think those generate too much bolt thrust or some such for them to be feasible in an AR; there's got to be a *reason* why it's not done yet. The 30 RAR is at the maximum end of the spectrum that can be acheived. But the .25 WSSM is still an excellent large game cartridge - certainly for deer-like ungulates etc.
 
Olympic Arms makes an upper for the AR in the 25 WSSM. I know this because I have one. I have a 24" SS Ultra match barrel, free floated, heavy barrel. At 100 yards with factory loads I can put 3 rds in a 1 inch. Still haven't reloaded with premium bullets, I bet I could tighten that pattern up a bit In November I took a White tail that dressed at 150 lb. used factory 120gr one shot, took three steps and drooped. Mags are provided by Olympic arms and I have not had a malfunction. I have put over around 300 rounds through the rifle with no problems. Accuracy for a deer rifle the Oly arms is exceptional.
 
.223 and .243 WSSM don't seem to offer much that .22-250 and 243 Win don't already cover quite well.

25 WSSM offers the same performance in factory ammo as .25-06. Winchester specs them the same.

The custom 25 WSSM AR, I saw, had the disclaimer that the 120gr bullets would not fit without using a shorter than optimal OAL.
 
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