AR15 - 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf

[Bobson]

Hey guys. I know this type of thread exists all over the internet, but I'm hoping to get some tailored advice from someone who might be able to relate.

I recently decided that I'll be buying my first AR15 (a Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman Carbine), which I plan to use as a patrol weapon while on duty, as well as for the occasional coyote.

When I found out I can swap out the upper with a different caliber, the appeal of hunting with my AR hit me pretty heavily, which is where the 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCOM, and .50 Beowulf come in.

I'd love to be able to use my alternative "hunting" AR upper for deer, elk, and bear (all in western Washington state), so based on what I've understood, 6.8 SPC is definitely out of the picture. I don't reload (I'd love to get into it, but I'm not ready to take the plunge), so I know I'm going to be spending a fair amount on ammo, whichever route I take (.458 S or .50 Beo). My question is, which round is better suited to what I'd like to do with it?

.50 Beo factory loads seem pretty damn heavy for Washington's blacktail deer, but it seems fairly well suited for bear and elk. Then again, I've heard nothing but great things about .458 SOCOM. I'm torn. :banghead:

Any advice?

 

[Cosmoline]

I think you may be underestimating the 6.8 SPC. I've heard it's proven very effective against black bear and hogs.

 

[Macgille]

About reloading, jump in. It's a lot of fun besides making ammo costs cheaper.

 

[jojo200517]

You forgot .450 bushmaster. From what I seen hornady ammo for it runs about the same price as .308 at academy sports. You are really limited on choices for it tho. Just throwing something else out there. .50 Beowulf will give you more ammo choices and reloading seems to offer more choices as well. If its too much for your deer is hunting it with .223 out of the question?

 

[Bobson]

I'd heard mixed reviews of the 6.8 SPC, Cosmoline. Some have said it's not effective against anything larger than Texas whitetail, while others have praised it for use on feral hogs. I figured even if the latter is true, and the former's total BS, it still wouldn't seem to be enough for elk and bears. At least not cleanly... But I'm more than willing to admit that may very well be a fallacy.

And as far as reloading goes, I know it's something I'd enjoy - working with my hands, quiet time to myself (I've got a 7 month old daughter - not that I'm not crazy about her, because I am; but I'm in desperate need of a semi-affordable hobby too)... Just seems somewhat complicated, and while I've noted several "starter kits", there seem to be a wide variety of additional tools that aren't included in any of the starters. De-burring tools... crimping presses.

 

[plunge]

there is also 6.5 grendel. i plan on eventually getting one of these bigger bore uppers also, and it's really hard to decide which one. i'm kind of leaning towards waiting to see which ones ammo stays available, but i just dont know

 

[Bobson]

Washington state cuts it off at .243 for the minimum for use on deer, jojo.

@Plunge: That's one of the things I was thinking about too. I had never even heard of .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, 6.8 SPC, .50 Beowulf, or 6.5 Grendel before I started looking at my options. While I may be completely wrong here, my instinct is to assume these are mostly new cartridges, and since I don't reload, who knows how long they'll last?

 

[ugaarguy]

6.8 Remington SPC, .300 AAC Blackout, and .450 Bushmaster have the best chances of sticking around in my opinion. That's because Remington, Bushmaster, and AAC are all under Cerberus Capital Group umbrella. 6.8 SPC has established a better foot hold than 6.5 Grendel. .300 AAC is a commercialized version of .300 Whisper. The .300 Whisper held on for years with support from the small niche of T/C Contender, and suppressed AR-15 fans. A commercialized version with readily available ammo from Big Green (Remington) will probably establish a similar foothold to 6.8 SPC.

 

[Roan]

I haven't researched the others too much, but I've been looking at aquiring the .458 SOCOM upper, so I'll add a few facts that I've found that might help you make your decision. The .458 SOCOM requires no alterations to the lower receiver and uses standard AR-15 magazines, though if you use long or really heavy bullets (such as 600 grain), you might need to take a tiny bit of metal off the magazines.

The round has slightly more power and uses the same bullets at the venerable .45/70, so it's capable of taking anything on North America.

The 458 SOCOM is designed for close range engagements (within 200 yards) because it has a rainbow trajectory. It maintains killing power out to 1000 yards for buffalo, but that basically requires aiming many feet above the target's head, so it's best used in thick woods or brush, not open plains.

The recoil is such that it will most likely break most collapsable stocks. Fixed stocks should be fine, as will high end telescoping stocks like the Magpul UBR.

Ammo runs from $2-3 a round, but reloading supplies are available and the brass tends to have a longer than average life. I've read reliable reports of averaging 8 reloads on some brass, though your milage may vary. High quality reloads, with brass life factored in, will result in less than $1 a round on average.

Hopefully this information helps in your decision.

 

[jmorris]

None of the big bore uppers can do anything more than a Marlin 45-70 can't except self load. If you own any of them you will want to reload for them.

I ruled out the 450BM quickly because it uses .452 pistol bullets. Light bullets designed to preform at lower velocities were not what I wanted.

After looking at selection of bullets I crossed off the 50B, just less choices.

The 458 is what I went with as a wider range of bullets can be had and most all are intended to work at the speeds the 458 can push them. I built a suppressor for mine and it's now my favorate hog rifle.

 

[scramasax]

I've used a .50 Beowulf for two years and just sold it and replaced it with a .458SOCOm. I liked it better due to the bottlenecked case and the mag issues. The 6.8 works fine for deer in Tennessee. For a longer range rifle I'm in the process of putting together a 6.5 Creedmore upper for my AR-10. There are soo many choices for the AR platform it can get really confusing. As to what will make the cut on the long haul it still seems it's still up for grabs.

Cheers,

ts

 

[68wj]

Any of the listed will take the game you mention. I know many deer (not just little Texas ones), big hogs, black bear, and elk have been taken with the 6.8 SPC. I am sure the other cartridges are responsible for taking these game as well.

As a non-loader, look at ammunition availability and cost in your area or from online sources that you frequent. None of the rounds are "cheap" but can be comperable to similar commercial varieties in other calibers.

I considered several options but went with the SPC due to:

• Current and growing factory ammo availability
• Variety of loading components
• Good performance on the game I want to take within/beyond my typical range
• Aftermarket support
• Fun factor: Neither are "blasting" cartridges, but the 6.8 can load 25 rounds in a mag and maintain accurate rapid fire with very little recoil

Either that you pick, you will probably enjoy having that increase over your stock varmint cartridge.

 

[dprice3844444]

bobson,just get a 308 ar-15

 

[68wj]

bobson,just get a 308 ar-15

Among other things, he may have trouble feeding rounds through the smaller mag well.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Depending how much you plan to shoot, a completely separate AR in .308 may result in lower total cost when you factor in multiple cases of ammo. But if you're only going to shoot 20 rds/year for hunting, the opposite would be true.

 

[Bobson]

I was strongly considering an AR10 in .308, but I read some negative things about .308 Win when paired with an AR platform. I didn't really understand what the problem was, and still don't (talking about a AR10 lower, not AR15, so the fit of the magazine well isn't a problem), but figured since I can only afford one rifle right now, and I don't want the hassle of trying to sell something shortly after buying it, I didn't want to take any chances.

But since we're on the topic... how do you guys feel about .308 Win in an AR? Maybe the Panther LR-308, or Bushmaster .308 ORC? Like I said, it seems to be everything I'm looking for (I know the caliber itself is a great choice)... but are there legitimate problems I should keep in mind?

 

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got an ar10 in 308 a 50 beowulf and a 762x39 ar (close to a 6.8) If elk was on the table I too would rule out the 6.8. Im sure it would kill an elk but theres better rounds. the 50 beo would do the trick no doubt. My wife killed a 1600 lb water buffalo with mine and it did just fine but its a short range propostion. About a 150 yards is all id try on big game. The 308 ar10 is about the best gun for your application. Only downside to them is even a 16 inch gun like mine is on the heavy side for hauling around all day up and down the hills. The 458 and the 450 bushmaster dont add enough useable yardage to the picture to say there hands down better then the beo. The do recoil less, especially the 450.

 

[michael5446]

i was suckered into the big bore AR stuff a couple of years ago... i went with the 450 bushy... i started to shoot and reload this and the test the ones that other people owned (50 beo and the 458)... every one of them had magazine feed issues eventually... i fixed the feed issues with the 450, but i think the main point should be reliability in the field vs accuracy and KO power... they all have plenty of power for your hunting needs...

just a thought

 

[Strykervet]

I've had no problems with the Beo, even using plain military mags. I tested it for my unit here at Ft. Lewis years ago, and I was amazed at what it could do. That is a lot of firepower per round in a light semi auto platform. Coast Guard uses it against boats. I can say it will penetrate an interceptor vest, one milkjug of water, a railroad tie, two cinder blocks, and a few inches of dirt. The FMJ slug expanded to a silver dollar size, had kevlar threads and other detritus embedded in it. Lost about 30% weight.

Folks use the Beo on hogs and it drops them on the spot. I imagine it would be a very humane and fast way to take a deer down too. I suspect it will punch a hole all the way through, but it loses energy fast. The max range on it is 200m unless you fire it up in the air. It drops real fast after about 175m. I get 350-400gr. bullets at about 1600fps. I haven't tried it yet, but I hear the 275gr. bullets are in excess of 2000fps.

I think all the other rounds come second to the Beo. I could be wrong, but I think that one has the most punch. Uses the same bullets that work in .500mag and .50DE. .499LW was another one, but that one is more obscure than all the above.

The Grendel just blows the 6.8 out of the water. That round will actually surpass the 7.62 at range. Just like the rabbit and the hare. BC is key at long range. I can't think of a better round. Lighter than 7.62 rifles, more accurate than most rifles, more powerful than 5.56 but the same weight. The only downside is the company that owns the patents for Grendel and Beo. Not that 6.8 is bad, it is just 6.5 is better. The 6.8 shines at assault rifle distances, out to 300m. 6.5 does that and then some.

6.8 is more common, yeah, but so is .22lr, and I won't be trading the Grendel or Beo for either. BTW, if you do go with 6.8, The Marksman has lots of 6.8 ammo. Lots.

Reloading is must for either Beo or Grendel if you want to shoot much. If you are obstinate about not doing it though, let me know, I want your brass and I'll pick it up if you are close.

 

[Strykervet]

The 7.62 AR is nice. It is the most accurate semi 7.62, the FAL is the most durable, the M14 the best all around. The G3 is overpriced, as with all of HK's stamped weapons.

But the Grendel will do most of what the 7.62 will do in a much lighter package. I was going to get a 7.62 AR but finally decided the Grendel is enough. The 7.62 AR's are heavy and only outshine the Grendel at shorter ranges. But I like shooting to 1000m, so things like this matter to me.

The other problem with 7.62 AR's is that they aren't standardized. Every one of them uses proprietary parts, and if parts are interchangeable, it is coincidence.

Don't get me wrong, they are nice, and the 6.5 flavors are very nice, it is just that the Grendel will fit your lower and do all that I said. It also works very well with shorter barrels, sort of an oddity. A 20" Grendel bbl. isn't that much of a gain over a 16"bbl. for instance.

On the other hand, the 7.62 AR is modular too, and there are some nifty rounds available for it. The 6.5 and .260 are very nice, the .338 has twice the energy of the 7.62 at close range. Problem is not all makers have these options. Tromix made a .50 or some kind of big bore variant for this platform too, but I don't think it is in production. Must have been a monster though.

 

[68wj]

Just like the rabbit and the hare...

Looks like a good race

 

[jmorris]

But since we're on the topic... how do you guys feel about .308 Win in an AR?

Different gun, you need to hold both. The 10 is a lot more AR than the 15 is.

 

[Tirod]

You mentioned the game, what ranges you shoot make some difference. Have most of your shots in Washington state been under or over 300m?

Point being, BC doesn't kill, but having enough effective foot pounds of power does. All of the cartridges will do that under 300m. Few hunters will actually attempt shots over 300, because most of the game lives in woodland edges, and getting shots requires line of sight.

Antelope, elk, etc, the terrain was chosen by them to offer them the advantage. There, you might need the extra distance carrying power, but that's a minority of hunting opportunities, not what most hunters encounter in their locality. Let's not forget, the most popular civilian round ever sold in America is still the .30-30 - and it's not known as especially effective at long distance. Lots of military calibers show up on the all time list, cheap ammo and widespread availability are key to their success. Ballistically, they rate because so many are good enough, not because of any definite superiority.

Since it's an optional upper, the point is to have more power than 5.56, and still meet the requirements of feeding in the AR lower. All the cartridges the OP lists will do that. What comes next is effectiveness and availability. None of these are Boxmart cartridges, the marketers concentrate on 20 year old Fudd rounds with established track records. As said, you will have to shop online for most purchases. Of the ones listed, the 6.8SPC is the #1 in sales overall.

Some might dispute that, the evidence is in what the market offers - 6.8 has ten times the number of loads available from ten times the number of ammo makers. Uppers and components the same - they're available from most AR suppliers. 6.8 is an open spec that is best used in the SPCII configuration, also known as 6.8x43 - it has a longer leade, slower twist, and less lands and grooves to allow hotter loads - which are available. Not many other alternates bother, the market is too small, and the cartridge has no more room for development.

Since 6.8 - like the others - will deliver over 1000 foot pounds of force out to 300m using a 16" barrel, there's no reason to burden the hunter with larger guns, or larger cartridges with twice the recoil. It was designed to increase power by 40% over 5.56 in that range, and does it, while not requiring a lot more effort or tolerance from the shooter.

You will find a lot of market support, and knowledgeable shooters using 6.8. There's tons of info on 68forums.com, and the hunting subforum has plenty of documented use of 6.8 on lots of game animals.

You won't find exaggerated claims the cartridge could do as well as one much larger - these guys own both in a lot of cases, and intermediate calibers as a class are realistically discussed - their ballistics aren't inflated to be more than they are.

Why? Because BC doesn't kill. Foot pounds of energy at the effective ranges used, do.