Bear defense rifle

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"And whoever said they are more worried about being attacked by a wolf in the lower 48, there hasn't been a wolf attack in a loooooooong time, if ever." Wolves have beenhunted to such an extent in the lower 48 that they have a highly ingrained fear of humans. Also, the conclusions from the Alaska attack are questionable. Ecspecially when one considers that outside of wolves kept as pets there are not documented cases i can find of US wolf attacks since 1910.
 
Justin, I don't know about wolves but I have been attacked by a large wild hog. My 3 inch 1911 got me through that by some minor miracle. I know that black bears are not normally aggressive but if you accidentally get between momma and her babies I don't want to put my faith in a spray.

Skippy
 
Ecspecially when one considers that outside of wolves kept as pets there are not documented cases i can find of US wolf attacks since 1910.

I just gave you one. But, I agree that wolves are not a real danger to humans. This attack was a very, very rare event. I'm sure many more people are kicked to death by injured deer than have ever been killed by wolves.
 
Years ago, I hunted moose and caribou with a Cree guide in Saskatchewon, Canada. His old rifle was an antique 35 Remington autoloader which had been in use for many decades.

TR
 
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It's also true that coyotes have been attacking people in much greater numbers. Coyotes in the eastern US have become especially aggressive since they are finding that humans are not nearly as dangerous as they once were and the coyotes are exploding in population numbers. There is even a theory going around that a new breed of coyote is appearing in the eastern US that is far more aggressive because the coyotes are mixing with wolves to form a larger, braver animal. The combination of wolf aggressiveness and coyote steal techniques is said to be creating a big problem. I know where I live people lose a lot of livestock to coyotes. That alone makes them associate humans with food and if they figure out most humans aren't really dangerous then look out. They raid backyards and kill pets and watch as humans hide inside the house while they do it. This gives them even less fear of humans. I saw video of this happening in a tv program. The coyotes jumped right over a fence that was 10 feet high like it was nothing. They grabbed a dog and jumped back over the fence carrying the dog. They are calling this new breed the "eastern coyote". Whether any of this is true is anyone's guess AFAIK but I do know attacks are way up

Sorry but that is pretty much entirely nonsense. The Eastern Coyote is nothing new. Attacks on pets are on the rise as generally happens during times of less precipitation but encroachment is also a big contributor. Of course this statement pretty much demonstrates the credibility of your post: "The coyotes jumped right over a fence that was 10 feet high like it was nothing. They grabbed a dog and jumped back over the fence carrying the dog." Coyote encounters are generally grossly over exagerated to try and justify unethical killing practices.

T...They already let cougar attacks go because "people are invading their territory". To heck with that...

Please cite an incident when this happened.
 
In AK primarily relied on bear spray but never unarmed with a small .44 Mag. Companion Trapper ideal but hard cast bullets required.

A 12 ga. pump action shotgun, probably the most popular, with slugs or plated 000 magnum Buck are fast, cheap and fine for defense (a spray of buckshot doesn't care which way the wind is blowing).

As for black bear, though a .357 might be addequate, don't think they are not aggressive -- in comparison to brown bear they are more likely to go from beautiful teddies to Ron Paul Crazy in a heart beat!
 
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Well as a matter of fact I have video of that coyote jumping the 10 foot fence and I have the capability of posting it but it is copyrighted. I could make it available just for you though. Just say the word and I'll post it to my website and give you a link. I'd do it right now but I don't have time. You may want to ask anyone who's seen the show it was on before you make a further mistake. It was on episode 5 of the Nat Geo Wild series, "Invaders" which was about coyotes

Send me the link and i'll take a look. Scaling up a chain linked fence, as coyotes have been known to do, is not jumping it.
 
Fence expert here. Not calling anyone a liar but fences that are anything other than chain link very rarely come in 10' heights. Pretty much the only other option for a 10' high fence would be some heavy duty steel ornamental as seen around military bases.
 
I live in the mountains and have black bears come on my property all the time. Even though blacks are not as large as grizzlies, I still have blacks that come here in the 300-400lbs. range.

Like others have said, I don't fear them but I've had some "close encounters"!

I had a rouge sow come here with a cub one night and she grabbed a small Coleman cooler I kept outside, (in my carport). She bit into it and carried it out back of our place and threw it around and showed her cub how to do it too. The cub grabbed it and did the same as his mom did.

My wife and I watched all this and I went out and yelled at them and the cub dropped the cooler and they fled. The sow and her cub came back the next two nights and raided my carport again and ripped up a whole bunch of stuff I had in our carport.

I used to keep my small BBQ outside and kept it spotless after each use but two more young blacks came and attacked it and tried to take it into the woods. I confronted them with a powerful flashlight and they left but one wouldn't drop it and when he did, he was mad as hell and kept approaching me snapping, (I call it clicking), his jaws and didn't want to let it go for nothing.

I had to yell at the top of my lungs while putting the beam of my flashlight into his eyes and he finally dropped it but he wasn't pleased and took his time leaving.

I could go on and on with my experiences but I always am a little worried around here because there's so many bears.

Like I said, I'm not paranoid and blacks don't attack that frequently but I've decided I should have a bear gun just in case.

I thought about buying a dedicated bear rifle in 45-70 gov't or similar caliber but realized I still had a single shot 12 gauge that I'd forgotten about.

I'm saying all this as I was ready to buy a rifle but someone here recommended a 12 gauge shotgun using Brenneke Black Magic shells and I want to thank him as I saved a few hundred dollars buying a bear rifle! Thanks much!
 
I happen to own a CZ 550 in .458 Lott, 21.5 inch barrel. Bought, customized and used for a purpose other than bear defense. I shoot it well, I know it well. For Alaskan bears, that's what I'd use.

But if I didn't have it, I'd use a Marlin Guide Gun.
 
I bought a .458 SOCOM because I suspect factory-loaded ammo will eventually become more available and cheaper than the other big bores for which semi-autos are available. Besides, if one reloads or knows someone who does, there's a wide selection of bullets plus good brass isn't all that pricey. I've seen new brass for about 60 cents each in bulk. And... from all I've read... a .458 600gr JSP at 1000fps will take care of most any bear.

But... also from all I've read... a big can of bear spray is probably a better defense.

Please take note of where I've written "from all I've read" because I have no practical experience.
 
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The Strassenger MkII chambered in 8.55x70 is a hard-hitting rifle and would be my choice.
 
Quoting statistics on the frequency of lightning strikes or bee sting deaths or falling trees versus bear attacks is totally useless and misleading. Comparatively few people go anywhere near the bears for any length of time, but we all live where there are bees and thunderstorms. Very few Americans are killed by crocodiles in any year, but that doesn't mean they aren't dangerous.
 
I know that black bears are not normally aggressive but if you accidentally get between momma and her babies I don't want to put my faith in a spray.

BLACK bear sows are not the dangerous ones. They'll climb a tree or dart off. Very rarely there has been a swat from a black bear sow, but they do NOT have the same maternal violence as the brown variety. The danger from black bears is that rarely a large male will turn predatory due to habituation or some unknown factor and actually eat people. Such a bear is likely to size you up, waltz right up to you, knock you down crack your skull and commence dinner. But those are typically big boars, over 250 or 350 lbs or more. IIRC a fellow in AZ was killed and partially eaten by such a boar in that manner recently.

In contrast I've run into many black bear sows with cubs up here. During some years they are thick like squirrel on the trail, darting around standing up to look at you, climbing trees and generally running around looking for berries, rotting fish and so on. The only one ever to actually charge me, with hilarious results, was a CUB who decided he'd run me off. And he did. The mom bear bolted off in the opposite direction when she saw me, like they very often do. So don't worry about black bear sows, and don't think you need to shoot them if they dart around near you. Obviously you should keep a respectful distance where possible and not feed them, etc.

Of course there may be other reasons to lawfully cull them. In which case the .350 is excellent medicine by all accounts.
 
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I have always thought a garand rebarreled to 35 whelen would be a dandy bear defence gun
Roy
 
Posted by Gebe

I live in the mountains and have black bears come on my property all the time. Even though blacks are not as large as grizzlies, I still have blacks that come here in the 300-400lbs. range.

Like others have said, I don't fear them but I've had some "close encounters"!

I had a rouge sow come here with a cub one night and she grabbed a small Coleman cooler I kept outside, (in my carport). She bit into it and carried it out back of our place and threw it around and showed her cub how to do it too. The cub grabbed it and did the same as his mom did.

My wife and I watched all this and I went out and yelled at them and the cub dropped the cooler and they fled. The sow and her cub came back the next two nights and raided my carport again and ripped up a whole bunch of stuff I had in our carport.

I used to keep my small BBQ outside and kept it spotless after each use but two more young blacks came and attacked it and tried to take it into the woods. I confronted them with a powerful flashlight and they left but one wouldn't drop it and when he did, he was mad as hell and kept approaching me snapping, (I call it clicking), his jaws and didn't want to let it go for nothing.

I had to yell at the top of my lungs while putting the beam of my flashlight into his eyes and he finally dropped it but he wasn't pleased and took his time leaving.

I could go on and on with my experiences but I always am a little worried around here because there's so many bears.

Like I said, I'm not paranoid and blacks don't attack that frequently but I've decided I should have a bear gun just in case.

I thought about buying a dedicated bear rifle in 45-70 gov't or similar caliber but realized I still had a single shot 12 gauge that I'd forgotten about.

I'm saying all this as I was ready to buy a rifle but someone here recommended a 12 gauge shotgun using Brenneke Black Magic shells and I want to thank him as I saved a few hundred dollars buying a bear rifle! Thanks much!

I don't know if it's legal, but, could you get a paintball marker and just spray them when you see them in your yard? And again, I have no idea if it's legal or not but if so, it would be a good way to make them leave, and teach that cub that breaking into people's coolers is scary and hurts...park rangers "haze" bears like this all the time, but they use rubber pellets and bean bag loads I think. It seems to be at least somewhat effective.
 
I'd opt for bear pepper spray and a .44 Mag revolver. A neighbor of mine suggested a cattle prod for vicious dogs which got me to thinking... I wonder if a strong stun gun would disable a black bear.
 
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Does anyone here have experience with one of these "big bore" AR15s and a ballistically comparable 45-70 in a lever-action or bolt-action rifle?

No experience with a big bore AR-15, but lots of experience with ballistically comparable 45-70 lever guns, from 1873 Springfield loadings all the way to Ruger #1 loadings. Unless you're planning on having a 100yds between you and the bear and the bear stands stationary for the first 3 shots, forget any AR platform rifle & anything that can't replicate Ruger #1 45-70 loadings in a lever gun. The AR isn't able to handle the high case pressures associated with rounds capable of one-shot stopping a charging bear thats hell bent on killing you. A Marlin guide gun loaded with Garret or Buffalo Bore Magnums is the bare minimum for 45-70 as bear defense (they both have 430gr loadings @ roughly 2000fps and they generate enough muzzle energy to be legal for hunting everything but elephant & other similar sized game in most parts of Africa). Those are powerful loads that replicate the energy of medium bore magnums to low end large bore magnums. Another option would be a 1895 in 405 Win as its pretty close to what you'll get out of a hopped up 45-70.

If you're really set on a semi auto, it has to be a BAR. The Mark II BAR is strong enough to handle upto a 338 Win Mag, which nearly replicates the energies of the 375 H&H Mag.

My priorities (in order) are 1) all weather reliability, 2) shot placement, 3) ballistics, 4) felt recoil, 5) cost and aesthetics.

I'll match your list as follows:

1) Browning BAR Lightweight Stalker in 338 Win Mag or Winchester M70 Safari Express in 375 H&H Mag. They both have iron sights, but the M70 uses Express sights (we are talking a gun that is a life line and these are the only two guns I'd put my life on the line with if I had a bear charging me).

2) Shot placement depends on you as a shooter. Bear defense guns need to have the power to be able to do a one shot stop on a charging bear, which necessitates the use of medium to large bore magnum chamberings. So if you can't handle recoil well, look into recoil pads (both for your shoulder and the buttstock), muzzle brakes, and some gun work to free float your rifle barrel. All these will help reduce recoil.

3) The 338 Win Mag has a bit more range than the 375 H&H Mag, but both are plenty fine out to 300yds. Both cartridges have MPBR's (max point blank ranges) around 250yds, so they have the range for the quick aiming & shooting for charging bear defense.

4) Again, a rifle capable of stopping a charging bear with one shot needs to have a large powerful round to do so. This means you'll have to deal with large amounts of recoil, so you need to find what you're recoil limit is. Find a place or friend with various rifles in the required calibers and do some shooting. A rifle that has the ability to stop a charging bear is of no use to you if you can't shoot it. The BAR in 338 Win Mag will have less felt recoil than the M70 375 H&H because the BAR's action absorbs some of the energy and it comes from the factory with a muzzle brake.

5) Both rifles I listed go for around $1300-$1600, but they are as aesthetically pleasing as you can get for mass produced rifles.

The simplest & easiest plan is to avoid the bear in the first place.
 
The 416 and 375 ruger match their conventional namesakes in velocity with only 20" barrels vs 24" in the 375, so it makes for a handy rifle.

They also load those cases to their absolute maximum pressure in order to match the power levels of the 375 H&H & 416 Rigby, both of which are far larger cases loaded to moderate pressures.
 
A Marlin 1894c in .357 is no slouch either. A 158gr lead hard cast round traveling at over 1800 fps has over twice the muzzle energy of the same round out of a revolver.
 
They also load those cases to their absolute maximum pressure in order to match the power levels of the 375 H&H & 416 Rigby, both of which are far larger cases loaded to moderate pressures.
true...

But for factory ammo, you get a potent cartridge in a reliable rifle.

I wasn't trying to say that it is superior to the holland and holland caliber, just that is is capable and similar.
 
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