AR15 Sheeople!

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David Hoback

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I’ve thought about this a couple times over the years. But I found it truly is easy to fall into it.

When I started building ARs, it was pretty much the beginning of all this. So I saw first hand, the vast majority of “NEW” toys that were released. Now I built my first couple ARs using extended YHM 4-rails & Phantom 5C2 flashhiders. This was at a time when everybody & their brothers were using M4 plastics & A2 FHs, because THAT is how almost every barrel was sold. In 2005, we didn’t have the PLETHORA of manufacturers with stripped barrels, as is common now. Same with gas blocks. Only a couple very high end(& expensive) barrels came like that. Your typical “build barrel“ was a complete unit, with cross pinned front sight block, barrel nut, Delta ring assy. & A2 birdcage.. 2-piece rails had not come out and so, most people simply went with stock plastic handguard. Very few of us were removing the front sight blocks, cutting & refinishing to go under the extended 4-rail handguards with the supplied barrel nuts. I mean VERY FEW! As in, I had no video to watch...and didn’t see anyone else do it. I just had to wing it! As well, my rifles were the first that I knew of to use 5C2 Flashhiders. Within just a couple years, I remember EVERYONE was using them. LOL! But that is how it always was. I tried new things, when very few others would. I was among Spikes Tacticals FIRST customers...when they were a brand new company on the set. In fact, many online criticized me, saying I should use “proven” parts! I still can not believe there was a time when people were calling Spikes Tactical “UN-proven”! Serious!? I even had several of the FIRST batch of Magpul Gen1 Pmags. They worked FLAWLESS for me! I was so angry when the MAJORITY of people started complaining about them! And got Magpul to do a 2nd gen...then a 3rd gen! UHG! For anyone around back then, if YOU were one of those complaining, YES!...YOU are one of the people I’m talking about! (You know who you are!) Magpul catered to people who didn’t know what they were doing building at the time. I hated that! Still happens today. Ya got a 20-something puts a couple ARs together and thinks they are Gunsmith.. Frustrating. Same goes for those who believe they possess a great deal of knowledge, but have never reloaded. Just...NO! You know very little at that point! UHG! But I digress.

Point to all this... I’ve witnessed for 15 years everyone doing the same thing over & over again! I was never a blind follower, like most. I like trying things. Big reason I’m able to DO so much..and with one arm/hand at that! But something happened during this latest build. I have always used 12”-13” handguards. Tubes, 4-rails, ssffr’s..all 12”-13”. But this latest AR, I initially ordered a 15” Handguard. Ended up they didn’t have the style I wanted in that length, and sent me a completely different 15” handguard. It was a big fiasco...took a couple more weeks, but I finally ended up with the style I wanted, but in a shorter length. An Hybrid M-Lok,12” length. Afterwards I realized I actually like how the 12” looks MUCH better than a 15”. To me, the 15” just adds more weight. I like seeing some barrel. So WHY did I order the 15” in the beginning, I asked myself. But I had no answer. I’m glad how it turned out, even though the ordeal was a pain. This was just this past week, so my mind has been wrestling this for a few days. Finally, I realized I had fallen into being one of the “AR Sheeople”! I “DID” because that’s what everyone “DOES”! I had been using 12”-13” handguards for a decade & a half..on countless builds...but the 15” is a few inches longer, so it must be better-ER.. RIFHT!? Made sense at the time, to my subconscious I guess. Def. has made me think things. No...I’m going to continue doing things the I have always done them.
 
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Everything comes down to task/purpose.

A 15" handguard lentgth does serve a purpose, depending on the task for the carbine.

1. When shooting off barricades it allows some flexibility in where you place the gun
2. When using a bipod it allows it to be placed further out
3. Protects more of the barrel.
4. Some people just plain like the looks.

Finally, calling folks "sheeple" just cause their version of an AR15 isn't your's is at best a narcissistic view of things, in this case it also shows an ignorance of how some people use their guns.
 
David Hoback said:
When I started building ARs, it was pretty much the beginning of all this.
Click to expand...
2005? You're a latecomer. When I built my first AR, an XM177E2, with the exception of a 12" Pinned and welded with the long flash hider for length, every part came individually sealed in plastic. There was none of this 'pin an upper to the lower you assembled' building going on. There's nothing wrong with that BTW, my last 2 were just that. I just mentioned it to show how the build process has evolved, as sarduy mentions. Belittling others' choices in parts is not High Road. Explaining why you chose certain parts for your uses, and even extolling them is fine, but describing AR builders as 'sheeople' [sic], besides being highly inaccurate, just belittles yourself more that those you attempted to insult.
 
I have never been one to just go with the flow. I’m also not oe of those that’s so set in my ways that I won’t try something new or different. I also know that people like different things and have no problems with that. I also don’t pretend to know everything and put down others for not liking the way I like things.
I’m one of those that likes the 15” rails over the 12” rails. I think they look better and give you more area for attachments. But for those that like shorter rails, if that’s what they like, go for it.
And to let you know, Spikes Tactical was once an UN-proven Company, the same as Daniel Defence, BCM and other companies that are now major players in the AR market. They had to start somewhere.
The great thing about building ARs is that you can set it up to the way you like it. I say why limit yourself, just go wild and have fun.
There’s nothing wrong with trying out different hand guards, rails, stocks, colors, barrels and muzzle devices, or anything else.
F89AE076-C793-4AAF-8003-CC60A54A1C8B.jpeg

Here’s the last AR I built, just last week. It was for a friend. I built it just like he wanted it. He thinks the fancy ARs are nice, but he likes a basic AR the best.
DB06561F-E213-41EC-8BA9-9308790E85E3.jpeg

Last month I threw this one together from new and used parts. Gave it to my son to replace his that was stolen. He loves it, and plans to do a rattle can camouflage paint job on it because, that’s what he likes.
4A079C8F-696E-49E3-8E1B-D9A3116C9E35.jpeg
 
David Hoback said:
No...I’m going to continue doing things the I have always done them.
Click to expand...

Excellent! I will sleep better knowing this.

Like Chuck, I will continue to use fifteens. Or seventeens. Or fours if a 9MM pistol calls for it.
What puzzles me is the “countless builds” and never trying something different sooner?

And finding two or three inches of empty tube so vastly different they are intolerable? You must have short arms...:)
Or you don’t shoot from a rest with a 24” barrel.
Or brace trees with a 450 deer hunting.

In addition, don’t assume someone is smart or safe or a gunsmith because they can reload ammunition, a fairly mundane and well marketed science.

But, yeah, Bro. Totally.
Bacon.
Quad rail. M4.

I can understand liking what you like, but 42 is a little young for curmudgeoning, isn’t it?;)
 
I’m letting an 8yr old build an AR today... rebuild with a factory finished lower instead of an 80%. She will do what I have always done, pretty basic setup with a basic free float handguard, Magpul furniture, cheap LPK, and an upper I have had on the 80% for a while. Hopefully she will get to use it next weekend... assuming a trip to my parents works out without sickness or other obstacle.
 
I started building AR's in the late 80's. I learned the technical aspects of them in the army as a 18B as well as working with the depot level armorers that supported us. Back then, it was all pretty basic- either you built a A1 or A2 style rifle or carbine. Other than things like barrel length on the carbine, there wasn't much to choose from- no rails, free-float setups, fancy triggers, improved controls, and so on. Bushmaster/Quality Parts Co. was the "go-to" for guys like me back then building AR's in the garage (or barracks, or team room- don't tell anyone). Even in the Special Operations community, rails and things that went on them weren't even a thing until after somalia (1993). Back then, our optics (aimpoints and 4x BLITS scopes) on our 727 and similar carbines were mounted on the fixed carry handles with a tandem mount for the older IR lasers, and our white lights (surefire 6P) were attached with clamps to the front sight a-frame or in some cases mounted with a weird mount directly to,the barrel via a 1" weaver scope ring. Slings were either home-made from 1" tubular nylon, or re-purposed from MP-5's. In 1994 (prepping for the "haitian vacation" that everyone was convinced would be as intense as mogadishu), we turned in all of our desert storm/ somalia-era 727's and M16's and got our first M4's. We had seen the M4 and all the great accessories "coming out" prior to getting the weapons - but when we uncrated the M4's, that was all we had! No cool stuff like rails, back-up iron sights, aimpoint comps, ACOG, etc.! So, we went to haiti with our new M4's wearing our old aimpoint 5000's in the detachable carry handles, front sight-mounted surefire 6P's, and so on. After the 1st gen SOPMOD kit was issued in the mid-90's, it changed the world of AR's and most other modern weapons in use (to include machineguns, sniper systems, etc.) and after 9-11, this type of technology development reached a fever pitch- with lots of the equipment (or versions of this equipment) making its way into the civilian world. "I was there" for most of it (1987- 2010 on active duty as a team member and instructor) and 2012-2016 as a contractor working overseas. It has been an interesting evolution, to say the least.
 
WestKentucky said:
I’m letting an 8yr old build an AR today... rebuild with a factory finished lower instead of an 80%. She will do what I have always done, pretty basic setup with a basic free float handguard, Magpul furniture, cheap LPK, and an upper I have had on the 80% for a while. Hopefully she will get to use it next weekend... assuming a trip to my parents works out without sickness or other obstacle.
Click to expand...

That puts a smile on my face WestKentucky! Keep on keep’n on with that! :thumbup:

I find many of the responses comical. People getting so very TRIGGERED, when I didn’t call out a single one, :rofl:
Quite telling.
 
If it weren’t for THR’s members and their daring to diverge I’d likely have 10 cookie cutter ARs rather than a bunch of rifles that meet my family’s needs.

From @GunnyUSMC ’s minimalist stock suggestions and use of non-monochromatic parts to @Varminterror ’s explanation of linear compensators and AGBs that finally got me expanding my scope of options. Through all of it no one pushed a right or wrong, only their results and experience. Invaluable stuff when shared freely.


Red accents on a pistol? Why not!
128D4FFF-922B-4AF9-9997-C9A53F462740.png

Keeping the FSB and shooting irons? Thanks for the suggestions @MistWolf!
5E0B18AC-B444-47FD-9EDF-7FEADCA980D9.jpeg

A blue AR? Makes my daughter happy.
AC6BFAA1-3AA8-493B-9846-0A859A4CB81D.jpeg

Great balls of fire
4126EA10-A0BB-4379-AD01-04133D018CCC.png

Touch of Gray.
64191364-F8FB-47EA-8C8C-7CDEE2644038.jpeg
 
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David Hoback said:
I’ve thought about this a couple times over the years. But I found it truly is easy to fall into it.

When I started building ARs, it was pretty much the beginning of all this. So I saw first hand, the vast majority of “NEW” toys that were released. Now I built my first couple ARs using extended YHM 4-rails & Phantom 5C2 flashhiders. This was at a time when everybody & their brothers were using M4 plastics & A2 FHs, because THAT is how almost every barrel was sold. In 2005, we didn’t have the PLETHORA of manufacturers with stripped barrels, as is common now. Same with gas blocks. Only a couple very high end(& expensive) barrels came like that. Your typical “build barrel“ was a complete unit, with cross pinned front sight block, barrel nut, Delta ring assy. & A2 birdcage.. 2-piece rails had not come out and so, most people simply went with stock plastic handguard. Very few of us were removing the front sight blocks, cutting & refinishing to go under the extended 4-rail handguards with the supplied barrel nuts. I mean VERY FEW! As in, I had no video to watch...and didn’t see anyone else do it. I just had to wing it! As well, my rifles were the first that I knew of to use 5C2 Flashhiders. Within just a couple years, I remember EVERYONE was using them. LOL! But that is how it always was. I tried new things, when very few others would. I was among Spikes Tacticals FIRST customers...when they were a brand new company on the set. In fact, many online criticized me, saying I should use “proven” parts! I still can not believe there was a time when people were calling Spikes Tactical “UN-proven”! Serious!? I even had several of the FIRST batch of Magpul Gen1 Pmags. They worked FLAWLESS for me! I was so angry when the MAJORITY of people started complaining about them! And got Magpul to do a 2nd gen...then a 3rd gen! UHG! For anyone around back then, if YOU were one of those complaining, YES!...YOU are one of the people I’m talking about! (You know who you are!) Magpul catered to people who didn’t know what they were doing building at the time. I hated that! Still happens today. Ya got a 20-something puts a couple ARs together and thinks they are Gunsmith.. Frustrating. Same goes for those who believe they possess a great deal of knowledge, but have never reloaded. Just...NO! You know very little at that point! UHG! But I digress.

Point to all this... I’ve witnessed for 15 years everyone doing the same thing over & over again! I was never a blind follower, like most. I like trying things. Big reason I’m able to DO so much..and with one arm/hand at that! But something happened during this latest build. I have always used 12”-13” handguards. Tubes, 4-rails, ssffr’s..all 12”-13”. But this latest AR, I initially ordered a 15” Handguard. Ended up they didn’t have the style I wanted in that length, and sent me a completely different 15” handguard. It was a big fiasco...took a couple more weeks, but I finally ended up with the style I wanted, but in a shorter length. An Hybrid M-Lok,12” length. Afterwards I realized I actually like how the 12” looks MUCH better than a 15”. To me, the 15” just adds more weight. I like seeing some barrel. So WHY did I order the 15” in the beginning, I asked myself. But I had no answer. I’m glad how it turned out, even though the ordeal was a pain. This was just this past week, so my mind has been wrestling this for a few days. Finally, I realized I had fallen into being one of the “AR Sheeople”! I “DID” because that’s what everyone “DOES”! I had been using 12”-13” handguards for a decade & a half..on countless builds...but the 15” is a few inches longer, so it must be better-ER.. RIFHT!? Made sense at the time, to my subconscious I guess. Def. has made me think things. No...I’m going to continue doing things the I have always done them.
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with following in the footsteps of people who went where you are trying to go.
I started with a flat top Anderson carbine. It quickly got a trigger job. Then a nice 2 stage. This was followed by a free float 7" handguard, adjustable gas block and a muzzle booster.
I didn't do it to be different. I did it to suit me. If I hadn't started with a base. I would have had no idea where to go.
 
I've always liked using cheap parts, mostly because I never end up keeping my ARs. I've enjoyed building all the variants I've had, and thru that I've found a few things I really like, and a few I really don't. I've also learned a great deal from the other members there about our favorite Legomachines.
For instance, i happen to really dislike long handguards on short light barrels, but for my usage they are simply a place to put my hands.
I also happen to really LIKE the look of longhand guards on long medium to heavy barrels, and heavy carbines.
I really like right side charging uppers.
I like ARs with color.

I've got one last out there AR build that I really want to do, but man is it going to be expensive.
Other wise ill keep putting together what I've been using, and trying other people's suggestions to see what I like.....
I've always felt there's value in trying stuff yourself, but if you can learn on other folks dime, well all the better
 
David Hoback said:
That puts a smile on my face WestKentucky! Keep on keep’n on with that! :thumbup:

I find many of the responses comical. People getting so very TRIGGERED, when I didn’t call out a single one, :rofl:
Quite telling.
Click to expand...

Is not the title of this thread "AR SHEEOPLE" [sic] ?
You did not 'call out' a single one, you 'called out' all AR builders, including yourself evidently, though you were quick to amend that to exclude yourself by denigrating everyone else's choices but yours.

I guess if I were including building them in the service, I have been doing so since 1986. You were eight years old then. You think you've seen changes.
 
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Guys, let's get the terminology right. NOBODY is "building" ARs. Lots of guys are ASSEMBLING ARs from parts readily available. From the latest fanboi tackycool to the retro VC slayer, plunk down yer money and choose yer parts and shuffle along with the herd.
 
I was building AR’s on “stripped barrels,” starting in 1999, so I don’t know why the OP had so much trouble doing so in 2005, selling at least one per month even during the dark times of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, in a market of only 25,000 people, built in an old man’s basement shop as an apprentice. When the AWB sunset in 2004, the flood gates opened and we were far better supplied to provide far more options in various configurations than we were able to during the ban, and many of us capitalized on extreme opportunity to profit on a new wave of AR buyers. I was ordering 25-50 uppers and lowers at a time from DPMS and Bushmaster, and as many barrels.

We do have a lot more options now, but the current whirlwind of manufacturers started a long time ago. There’s not much new under the sun, because it’s simply too easy to modify AR’s, but I don’t see the point in complaining about the fact that so many folks have found utility in the design.
 
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