M-16 Forward Assist ... did you need it?

[12Bravo20]

I don't think it's spilling the beans too much to mention this:

In non-combat-arms units, there are some real lemons in the armory. Also, the company-level armorers are not armorers by MOS.

I had an issued M16/M203 that I regularly used the FA on. Neither I nor the armorer had the skills at the time to troubleshoot it, and the non-combat-arms battalion was worried far more about upkeep of other equipment, which objectively made sense. I did get pretty good with the 40mm.

Early/Mid 2000s period.

I wonder if there was a shortage of armorers at that time. I retired in 1996 and every company had an armorer assigned to it no matter if it was a combat, combat support, or general support unit. I had reclassed from 12B combat engineer to 44E machinist after Desert Storm. As a 44E I was only assigned to engineer units or direct/general support units. I worked a lot with the armorers when they could not fix something and the units did not want to send weapons to depot level.

 

[Chuck R.]

I never had to use it on an issue weapon.

It does come in really handy though for coyote hunting. I ride the bolt FWD, stripping a round, then fully chamber using the forward assist. It's quieter than going from bolt lock, or sling shotting.

 

[entropy]

I wonder if there was a shortage of armorers at that time. I retired in 1996 and every company had an armorer assigned to it no matter if it was a combat, combat support, or general support unit. I had reclassed from 12B combat engineer to 44E machinist after Desert Storm AS a 44E I was only assigned to engineer units or direct/general support units. I worked a lot with the armorers when they could not fix something and the units did not want to send weapons to depot level.

In my BN, I was the only trained Armorer, aside from the other 76Y in the S-4, whom I did my best to keep out of the Arms room, because while he was trained, he was not well trained.
The others were a 71L, and a commo sgt. One unit of 6 enlisted and one officer, did not even have their own Armorer, so I was their Armorer as well.
When the 761st Chem. Co. reactivated in 1987, they actually had their own Armorer. He's the one who put half the M60 gas plugs in backwards. I did a lot of his work for him after that, too.

 

[Slamfire]

I do think it interesting the original FAL did not have a forward assist. A gunsmith bud of mine made two FAL's for me, one of which he offered a "Israeli" forward assist option. I am sure with enough pressure the Israeli forward assist would bend, so it must have been there to clear minor jams. But, they would not have created a forward assist if field reports did not mandate it.

Sand in the Middle East, like sand everywhere, is different from all other sands. There is no "standard" sand. I have sand from the Giza Plateau and it is so fine, that it is like a talc. I can understand with such fine sand getting into mechanisms, how that would slow automatic mechanisms down, and cause failures to go into battery.

 

[N555]

If you are using a silencer and running ballpowder ammo you will eventually need it.

 

[Slamfire]

He's the one who put half the M60 gas plugs in backwards. I did a lot of his work for him, too.

I have seen pictures of M60 firing mechanisms arranged incorrectly. I don't remember the sequence of firing pin, sleeve, spring that allowed an incorrect sequence, but it happened. It is my opinion that any service weapon that makes it into the field, where parts may be assembled out of sequence, or in the wrong orientation, to be a bad design. Good designs, such as the M98 Mauser, the bolt parts only assemble one way, and the correct way.

I was surprised to find how lacking many are in mechanical aptitude. A retired Major I know, Vietnam Combat veteran, twice came to me because he could not reassemble his Mosin Nagant rifle bolt. Major is not stupid, he just can't see the interrelation between the parts. He can be trained, by rote, to disassemble and assemble things. No weapon should make it out to the field that requires the skills of a mechanic, or a mechanical engineer to operate, maintain, etc.

I was surprised to see how complex the K31 bolt is



I think the Swiss K31 design shows how well the Swiss are educated even at the High School level, or the weapon would have been too difficult for the average Swiss ground pounder.

As a comment on the American Educational system, a couple of decades ago I read the book What is Total Quality Control? The Japanese Way by Kaoru Ishikawa. This book was an English translation of a Japanese book for Japanese factory workers. Workers who were standing or sitting on factory floors assembling things. What surprised me was the level of statistical knowledge assumed to be known by Japanese factory workers. There was a discussion of median, mode, average, and the normal distribution, and probability. Eventually the book got into statistical identification and tracking of deficiencies. The people being taught did not go to University, and yet, did not need to be "spoon fed" to understand what these things were, as these mathematical concepts were only there to show how they related to Quality Control.

A population educated to the level of the Japanese and Swiss can be handed more complicated weapons than American populations whose primary educational system graduates individuals who are illiterate, and can't add or subject without a calculator.

But at least American High School graduates can identify who is a victim, and who is an oppressor. And can explain what "equity" means.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have seen pictures of M60 firing mechanisms arranged incorrectly. I don't remember the sequence of firing pin, sleeve, spring that allowed an incorrect sequence, but it happened. It is my opinion that any service weapon that makes it into the field, where parts may be assembled out of sequence, or in the wrong orientation, to be a bad design. Good designs, such as the M98 Mauser, the bolt parts only assemble one way, and the correct way.

I was surprised to find how lacking many are in mechanical aptitude. A retired Major I know, Vietnam Combat veteran, twice came to me because he could not reassemble his Mosin Nagant rifle bolt. Major is not stupid, he just can't see the interrelation between the parts. He can be trained, by rote, to disassemble and assemble things. No weapon should make it out to the field that requires the skills of a mechanic, or a mechanical engineer to operate, maintain, etc.

I was surprised to see how complex the K31 bolt is

View attachment 1131749

I think the Swiss K31 design shows how well the Swiss are educated even at the High School level, or the weapon would have been too difficult for the average Swiss ground pounder.

As a comment on the American Educational system, a couple of decades ago I read the book What is Total Quality Control? The Japanese Way by Kaoru Ishikawa. This book was an English translation of a Japanese book for Japanese factory workers. Workers who were standing or sitting on factory floors assembling things. What surprised me was the level of statistical knowledge assumed to be known by Japanese factory workers. There was a discussion of median, mode, average, and the normal distribution, and probability. Eventually the book got into statistical identification and tracking of deficiencies. The people being taught did not go to University, and yet, did not need to be "spoon fed" to understand what these things were, as these mathematical concepts were only there to show how they related to Quality Control.

A population educated to the level of the Japanese and Swiss can be handed more complicated weapons than American populations whose primary educational system graduates individuals who are illiterate, and can't add or subject without a calculator.

But at least American High School graduates can identify who is a victim, and who is an oppressor. And can explain what "equity" means.

I had an SRT supervisor that I walked through and showed step-by-step how to reassemble Mp5 bolts at least 20 times over the years with no luck. He was like my Dad, both just never had the mechanical aptitude to take things apart and put them back together no matter how hard they tried.

Stay safe.

 

[21H40]

Sand in the Middle East, like sand everywhere, is different from all other sands. There is no "standard" sand. I have sand from the Giza Plateau and it is so fine, that it is like a talc. I can understand with such fine sand getting into mechanisms, how that would slow automatic mechanisms down, and cause failures to go into battery.

Heck, even sand from one province to another was noticeably different in Afghanistan. The stuff we saw in Panjwai and Maywand would "splash" like water because it was so light. My guys ran our M16's effectively dry to reduce the dust build up. The M2 didn't really care too much though.

I used mine more as a good luck charm button than anything else. It was something to push that would remind me that all was in order as I went for a walk.

 

[mcb]

I have never fixed a problem with a forward assist but I have made the problem worst a time or two. I have one AR upper without a Forward Assist. I would not mind more. I can silent load most of mine using my thumb on the bolt carrier.

 

[entropy]

I have never fixed a problem with a forward assist but I have made the problem worst a time or two. I have one AR upper without a Forward Assist. I would not mind more. I can silent load most of mine using my thumb on the bolt carrier.

My son has a DPMS Sportical, which is slick sided, and that's how he closes the bolt when hunting.

 

[mcb]

My son has a DPMS Sportical, which is slick sided, and that's how he closes the bolt when hunting.

Yep, my one 300 BO I built from parts used a DPMS slick side upper and I really like it.

 

[Charlie98]

I actually considered posting this question a time or two... in reality, the answers here are about what I expected.

I've considered building a non-FA AR, just for the novelty of it... but reason always prevails. Rather have it and not need it...

I'm sure I've used mine over the years... sometimes it was a handloaded cartridge that needed a little persuasion to fully chamber, the sandy crap blowing around NTC (which eventually locked my M16A1 up tight...) or after a quick chamber check.

 

[mcb]

Ian sets it straight.

 

[Terry G]

Long ago, but I remember using mine in Viet Nam to make sure the bolt was closed after checking for a round in the chamber and after getting the water out of the barrel. Mine never malfunctioned.

 

[BreechFace]

I'll take a FA every time.

 

[HankC]

I used it. On a 7.62x39 AR. It was a PSA 7.62x39 Upper, when new, I had missed fires, I thought it was firing pin but it has an enhanced firing pin already, I thought it was hammer spring and put on an extra power hammer spring, neither worked. I sent it back to PSA and PSA replaced the BCG and said fixed, but it was still doing it. Eventually, I realized the bolt was not fully closed and would fire when I push the bolt forward with the forward assist. It was the extractor too stiff that would not slip over the rim. I could remove the O-ring under the extractor, but I decided to use a heavier recoil spring. If not because there is the forward assist, I may not figure out it was the stiff extractor! I would not buy an AR without it!

 

[halfmoonclip]

Understand about bright people who are mechanically inept...two late buddies fell in to that description. One mailed me the cylinder from a Smith, with the ejector rod unscrewed. Saw a set of headphones the other repaired; if masking tape wouldn't fix it, it wouldn't be found.
To its credit, the AR bolt carrier group can't be misassembled.
Moon

 

[Charlie98]

To its credit, the AR bolt carrier group can't be misassembled.

Never say never...

 

[243winxb]

A squib leaves a bullet in the barrel. Shooter hand ejects case. Next round doesnt fully chamber. Shooter uses assist to jack it in. KABOOM. Seen on Youtube.

Used mine on M16A1 carbine. Didnt load the round. Lucky for me. A neck was still in the chamber.

 

[trackskippy]

Used mine on M16A1 carbine. Didnt load the round. Lucky for me. A neck was still in the chamber. View attachment 1131816

I had the same thing happen with my one M1. Older, reloaded GI brass failed from powder degradation and left the neck in the chamber. The bullet cleared the barrel. Next round wouldnt chamber and when I pulled it out, the neck from the previous case was on the bullet of the round that woudnt chamber.

When I checked the rest of the box of 100, more than half of them had cracked necks and the bullets would just push off with a little thumb pressure. Also found a couple of pieces of brass with no necks on the ground where the necks must have come off on extraction and still cleared the gun.

 

[FL-NC]

Of the numerous malfunctions I have had in my life with that family of weapons, I don't believe the FA ever contributed in getting one back up and running.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Forward assist is useful in doing silent or low noise brass checks. Pull back on the charging handle slightly, make sure you have a live round. Ride handle forward and hit the forward assist to make sure the bolt is locked forward and ready to fire.

This.

I've never used it to deal with a malfunction, but plenty of times to check chamber or chamber a round quietly in a hunting situation.

 

[ExtremeSquared]

I wonder if there was a shortage of armorers at that time...

Very plausible. Might have been growing pains in the transition to BCTs that left pure support units with wonky staffing, also.

The mediocre M16 wasn't as annoying to me as its successor -- a 249 which broke a firing pin a few rounds into a range trip... mid-deployment.

 

[12Bravo20]

Very plausible. Might have been growing pains in the transition to BCTs that left pure support units with wonky staffing, also.

The mediocre M16 wasn't as annoying to me as its successor -- a 249 which broke a firing pin a few rounds into a range trip... mid-deployment.

The first transition I personally dealt with was the change to Combat Engineer battalions and BCT's right after Desert Storm. Combat engineer battalions went from supporting a division down to supporting a brigade. They also went from 4 line companies down to three line companies. Brigades changed at the same time and ended up with three combat teams. There weren't any more changes made to BCT's until after I got out in 1996.

And yes the M249 was not the most reliable machine gun at that time. I was asked if I wanted one and I kept the M60 instead.


For the OP,

As you can see, some of us had to use the FA and others did not while we were in the military. And there are plenty of times that people need or want to use the FA in the civilian world too. As a unit marksmanship trainer; I can't stress enough that if a light tap does not seat the bolt, you have bigger issues that needs to be addresses. Hitting the FA harder will only lead to more problems.

As the old saying goes: "It is better to have and not need then need and not have"

 

[d2wing]

I use the FA as a hunter when quietly closing the bolt. Just like not slamming the door, I like to ease the bolt forward and then use the FA to ensure that it is fully closed and seated.

A good lightweight AR is one of my favorite coyote calling rifles.

That's how I use it as well. Many times.