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Are ammo seller gouging or are the high prices just supply and demand

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by castile, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. castile

    castile Member

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    I see SG ammo has not been taking orders, but lucky gunner and few others have ammo but prices are a bit high. Gouging or supply and demand
     
  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I guess it is a matter of degree. Raise prices 20%, supply and demand. Double them, gouging.
     
  3. buddyd157

    buddyd157 Member

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    i'll put it to you like this, i bought 1,000 rds, 124 gr, S&B for under $250 at my gun store, 2 weeks ago, when i went to pick up my new gun.. the fiocchi 115 gr, non-hollow point for 1,000 for $250 (SG Ammo)
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  4. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    There is no such thing as "price gouging"; the idea is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of pricing.

    If you raise your price per widget above what the demand will support, your competitors will take your market share, and you will lose money. Unless you can send Vinnie over to close your competitor (or use regulation to the same effect), you can't actually sell widgets above the price that the demand will support. No one will buy them.

    It's impossible to contrast "price gouging" vs "supply and demand pricing"; if you understand the second, the first vanishes into a illogical misunderstanding.

    ETA: No doubt the response will be lots of emotional whinging; that's irrelevant. A vendor maximizes profit by selling at the vertex in the price-demand curve; when demand rises the vertex rises, and the vendor has no responsibility to maintain pricing just because you wish he would.

    In fact, the vendor has an obligation to his shareholders to maximize profit; if you disagree, you should invest in the inventory and start your own charity.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  5. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    Is it something you actually need to survive, travel, conduct your business, or as a home utility? Are there still other sources attempting to supply it at closer to previous prices?
    If not, it's not gouging. Someone offers to supply it at a price, someone still pays that price, so they continue.
    Sometimes it's deplorable, it can definitely be taking advantage, but it's not gouging. Vote with your wallet. I do.
     
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  6. mcb

    mcb Member

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    In a free market there is no such thing as price gouging.
     
  7. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    I don't even take offence to prices that double. As said above, if you don't like the price, don't buy it.

    What I've seen so far, Midway, SGammo and TargetSports are keeping prices pretty low when they have stock. These were my favorites before the panic and still are.
     
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  8. George P

    George P Member

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  9. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    Target Sports prices have gone up some as I'm sure it's to pay for all the extra warehouse workers they are using. They can't keep stock on the shelves and currently have a 15-20 day shipping delay on all orders. I'm sure all online ammo sellers are in the same boat.
     
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  10. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    "Gouging" is supply and demand. If there was a cheaper supply, you'd buy there instead.
     
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  11. ericuda

    ericuda Member

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    Yep free market and I am also free to buy where and when I want.
     
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  12. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    Theoretically, this is true. However, it applies only if buyers (and sellers) have complete knowledge of the market, and are not forced to buy/sell under artificial constraints. If people are panic buying ammunition because of fear of a pandemic and its social consequences, they are not acting rationally. They are likely to pay prices that are out of line with supply and demand. Sellers that take advantage of that can be fairly labeled "price gougers."
     
  13. STI

    STI Member

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    Local range/store has recently got some 9mm in $20 with gun rental or to reserve a lane $25 without, it all lasted 2 days and out again. Said they have bills to pay also. Customers have a choice, all this shortage was very plain weeks ago as coming with also an election year will not be better in along time I feel, so glad we prepared for all of it. Think it is bad now wait until November elections times. I read so many were thinking of getting into reloading thought a tad to long. We told you.
     
  14. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    This is also true for States that restrict the ability of On-Line Reseller to sell in their State. Case in point, Massachusetts AG sent letters to every Ammo Reseller they could find and demanded they cease and desist selling to MA residents upon threat of legal action. Target Sports USA told the AG to go "F" herself and continues to do business with MA residents. They are the only one, so whatever their price is is what we have as an out of state option. (Oh and the AG did nothing because she knows her decree goes point blank against the Federal Interstate Commerce clause and she doesn't want to lose in court.)
     
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  15. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Where I agree that there are conditions where gouging can happen due to a non-free-market where the buyer is not free to buy elsewhere, I have to disagree with your premise here. Assuming it is a free market than nothing the buyer does though ignorance, panic, or irrational behavior can makes the seller a gouger. This assumes the seller is not actively causing the buyer's ignorant, panicked, or irrational behavior.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  16. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    All completely irrelevant. Demand is exactly that, demand.

    Whether the demand is driven by strategic buyers who do their research, or ignorant nervous nellies with tinfoil hats, it's all demand. Anyone present with desire and cash is demand; anyone present with inventory is supply. Ignorance and emotion don't matter.
     
  17. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    Price gouging is mostly concerned with precipitous price raises in view of emergencies such as water and food after a hurricane. I'm from Florida and you see a lot of arrests after a storm for just this sort of thing. There are hotline numbers to call to notify authorities. There are laws against it so I don't think you can say there's no such thing.

    Under normal circumstances, this is quite true.

    Supply and demand pricing is based on the concept of a item being supplied and demand based on simple desire for that item. Not so much a life and death need in dire times.

    However, if the vendor is smart, keeping prices at the same level is something that customers might remember after the storm has passed and things return to normal.

    All of that said, removing lowered prices and returning those to non-sale levels isn't gouging. MSRP on one popular gun we sell is $299.00. We regularly sell it at $279.00. Right now they're being priced at $299.00.
     
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  18. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    Supply and demand doesn't care if people are "rational".

    In a shortage situation of course your buying is reasonable, and the other guy is engaging in irrational panic :D Doesn't change the fact that the supply is 1 and there are 2 buyers.
     
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  19. George P

    George P Member

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    No they cannot; they offer their goods at a certain asking price. If the buyer fails to do their due diligence, that is NOT the issue or problem of the seller. When two parties WILLINGLY exchange things in a mutual fashion - money, services, goods or whatever, there is NO gouging.
     
  20. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    The point is that these laws are arbitrary. All they punish is a situation where something costs more than someone else thinks it should EVEN WHEN THEY CAN'T FIND IT CHEAPER. That situation always exists in EVERY market - as a consumer I always want everything cheaper, and always buy it from the cheapest/best service place I can find (assuming equivalent goods). So such laws simply punish people for something that occurs all the time.
     
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  21. George P

    George P Member

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    But there is a major difference between lowest price and lowest total cost of ownership; sometimes the cheapest item costs more in the long run
     
  22. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    Sure I'm just talking about interchangeable goods. Ammo and TP don't tend to incur many costs after purchase :D
     
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  23. George P

    George P Member

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    True, but inventory carrying costs need to be factored in as well.....(did this stuff for 30 years):thumbup:
     
  24. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    With most of my investments taking a dive recently, I can't help but be a little pleased that my inventory of ammo is gaining in value.
     
  25. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    The classic definition of "fair market value" is "the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, both having complete knowledge of the relevant facts and neither being under any compulsion to buy or sell." In a sudden pandemic, everybody lacks knowledge of the extent and course of the disease. And the resultant panic is a form of psychological compulsion. Under these conditions, it's impossible to establish a "fair" price point, and the normal laws of supply and demand don't apply. Anybody selling at a price substantially higher than the prevailing price ante could reasonably be presumed to be price gouging.
     
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