Are flashlights on a firearm a really good idea?

[ZeBool]

I would not and do not have a light mounted on my nightstand gun. This falls along the lines of "If i rack the slide of my 870, the BG will most certainly have a change of heart" vs "The BG is in my house, he does not deserve any warning whatsoever" I fall into the latter category. Note: In my case, if ANYBODY is in my house unannounced after I go to bed, they are intruding.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

If i rack the slide of my 500, the BG will most certainly have a change of heart

To each his own, this is what I would do though. /\

 

[benEzra]

The obvious disadvantage is, that if you want to illuminate something, you have to point your gun at it, which could cause rule 2 violations.

A good light will put out enough non-axial beam that you can illuminate something with the gun in low ready or high ready; unless you are using a really cheap (dim) light, you don't need to put the core of the beam on something to light it up.

My personal opinion is that you, as a civilian, have NO business searching a darkened building in search of an intruder. Unless you already know where the bad guy is, you should NOT venture out of the room you are in. In situations like that, all the advantages are held by the person who keeps quiet and stays hidden. The moving person will invariably make enough noise to give away their position to the person who is trying to remain unseen. What this means is that you should get your gun, position yourself in an ambush position on the door, and listen. Eventually the person may indeed give away their location, allowing you to maneuver to an advantageous position on them. But going out in search of an unknown intruder in a darkened house or shed will get you shot, almost guaranteed.

You are both correct, and incorrect, IMO.

Yes, if it is likely someone is in the house, you put yourself at a significant disadvantage if you go hunting for them, and it is of great tactical advantage to let them come to you.

However, if it is not likely someone is in the house, but you want to check out the "bump in the night" for peace of mind's sake, it is prudent to go armed just in case that wasn't the cat knocking over the vase. Calling your local PD five or ten times a year and asking them to search your house for you because it sounds like your cat knocked over the vase again is not a good idea. If you can have a dog check things out, great; if not, you can check it yourself, or you can lie in the bed and assume it was just the cat.

And, as others have mentioned, those of us with children elsewhere in the house would definitely be moving even if there were a known threat in the house.

BTW, police are civilians too, strictly speaking; if someone is subject to the civil law instead of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, they're a civilian, whether they have a government job or not.

 

[7.62X25mm]

Generally speaking though, tactical flashlights aren't mean to run continuously. You shine your light briefly, see if anything is there, if not, cut the light.

They're also extremely bright. So while it might give your position away, it might also blind the BG enough that it wouldn't matter.

Glock Tactical Laser GTL 21, features a flashlight with a focus beam. It mounts in front of the pistol trigger guard and the off hand can turn the light on/off easily.

What's really nice is that there's a red dot in the middle of the beam -- That's where the bullet makes a hole.

And yes it DOES give away your position, just like "racking the slide" on a shotgun.

Movies are movies. Reality can be life/death.

 

[COMPNOR]

The bad guy always falls down and gets hurt, runs off, or drops his weapon when the good guy shines his SureFire (TM) at him.

This makes me sick. These stories are so obviously false.

How do you know their obviously false?

I'll agree that they're hyped up a great deal, and every situation is false.

 

[WardenWolf]

My house is set up in a way that, if someone does break in, I would likely know approximately where they are, and have time to get a bead on them before they can properly recover from making entry. If they are using any window, it would take them at least 30 seconds to make entry after breaking it, and my alarm system would be going off the whole time.

There are other people in the house, and they are also armed, and they know what to do should someone attempt to break in. Overall it would likely be a very bad situation for the intruder.

However: if I had a wife and kids of my own, I would teach them to lock the door to their room and wait / call police. I would respond to a threat, although I trust my senses to help me find the intruder first. Regardless of whether you go out in search of the intruder or not, you MUST remain quiet. If you are to get the drop on them and find them before they notice you, you must move as quietly as possible and listen carefully.

 

[LAK]

Very popular. I keep my lights off my guns.

Even if you are careful not to switch it on until you have a target - there may be a second - third or more - badguy who now has you marked. If the switch malfunctions, and it comes on impromptu, won't switch off etc now you have a problem - you can't just toss it.

----------------------------------------------

http://gtr5.com
http://ssuntedstates.com

 

[Axess Denyd]

However, if it is not likely someone is in the house, but you want to check out the "bump in the night" for peace of mind's sake, it is prudent to go armed just in case that wasn't the cat knocking over the vase.

I learned that the hard way! I assumed my cats knocked something over and got out of bed to see what it was and spotted a guy in the process of breaking in. He took off as soon as he saw me, so a gun wouldn't have done much good at the time, but I should have thought to take it AND my Surefire. I didn't get to give a good description to the police because his face was entirely in shadow. A light would have definitely helped there.

 

[YammyMonkey]

Adding a light to a firearm is just adding another function to another tool. A light on a gun is not universally good or bad, it just is. How you use it determines good or bad & that's on you, not the light. Personally I have a light on my carry gun & like it that way. I also have a light in my pocket for less demanding uses and/or backup.

One big advantage to a pistol mounted light is that you can use your non-shooting hand for whatever you want & still run gun & light. Won't be as pretty, but it beats trying to herd a 3 year old in a dark parking lot with your knees while putting effective fire on your attacker.

As for the "I don't need to ID my target in my home" attitude, that's just plain foolish. You may have no sense of right & wrong but that'll be a tough civil case to win when, as previously mentioned, your drunk & confused neighbor, or kid manages to get in & catch a facefull of lead. Using your light momentarily to quickly ID & assess your potential target is the right thing to do tactically & morally.

 

[conw]

I know compnor's, and maybe others', comments above were addressed to me.

For the record, I want to clarify that I have a very bright single-cell light that I use every day, and if I'm in a strange parking lot it's in my hand ready to shine in someone's face who approaches me rudely.

I can name several benefits of using a light like that...it's legal as far as I can tell to shine a light in someone's face (provided they aren't operating machinery or epileptic I suppose) and it COULD afford you a few seconds.

Point being, though, and contained in my previous posts: affording oneself a few seconds is a far cry from considering the light itself a "defensive weapon" (regarding the luminosity, not the blunt trauma potential), and seems to me like common sense.

The hype, on the other hand, makes these lights out to be a primary defensive tool, literally blinding, etc, etc.

Seconds DO count, and if you have yourself wired to ALWAYS shine a light at your foe, you're going to be spending a lot of seconds drawing the light, pointing it, and clicking it. Some marketing gimmicks with these newer generation LED lights do, essentially, advocate using your light "defensively" in any and every potentially violent encounter.

Oh, and compnor, with all due respect reread my post and you'll see that my dogs came up in light of one of SureFire's favorite stories, "I was walking along and a wild dog/dingo/cobra/mountain lion came up and I blinded it and scared it off...using my 65 lumen E2L." If some of the stories are blatantly false, it throws them all into question as far as I'm concerned, and I think it's irresponsible to dispense defensive advice that is BS, and immoral if done so for marketing purposes.

 

[conw]

Oh, expvideo: I imagine that the same guy woulda run off if you'd pulled your gun (if it got to that point) or given any other sign of putting up a fight.

I'm not sure about your specific situation, but there are two types of criminals as far as I'm concerned - those who are going to disengage at some point, and those who are crazy enough to keep fighting until I stop them. That's one of the views that informs my strategy, and it doesn't allow me to count on drawing, pointing, and clicking a light if I'm afraid for my life.

bmxr4life87 wrote:

Some wmls now have a strobe setting while some armchair quarterbacks here might not understand the effect of this strobe lights DO disorient you. Jails use them for a reason. Ive had one tested on me by my dad when i questioned how well they worked. i even aimed at him with a orange plastic g17 training replica and after being hit with the strobe i woulda shot the hell outta the ceiling because thats where i jerked too trying to avoid the strobe. These tools do work when people who understand their proper use are operating them.

Ok, so you played around with a strobe LED and a replica Glock and you now trust them...I don't.

 

[Erik]

"Are flashlights on a firearm a really good idea?"

Yes, under the right tool for the job doctrine.

 

[benEzra]

For those who think a light is always going to give away your position---if the area is lit enough for you to see and/or engage a threat, it is lit enough for the threat to see you, whether or not you have a light. It may not, however, be bright enough for you to satisfy Rule 4.

A light on a firearm is just a tool, one that gives you options. There is no rule that says that if you have a weapon mounted light, you have to turn it on every time you move five steps; you can leave it off if you think staying dark would be to your advantage, and you can turn it on if you deem it appropriate. But having a good light does give you the option.

 

[trlcavscout]

I am old school army on this one, I would not have a light on my home defense weapon, just like I never had one on my M4. If you get your self used to looking in the dark in becomes second nature. I do have a little trick, I keep a night light in the bathroom for my kids, and also it lights the living room and hall way just enough to get a clear view of anything moving, but does not shine in the bedrooms at all. Little tricks that the guy sneaking in my house doesnt have time to think about are far better then store bought gadjets in my opinion. Just my opinion.

 

[expvideo]

Oh, expvideo: I imagine that the same guy woulda run off if you'd pulled your gun (if it got to that point) or given any other sign of putting up a fight.

I'm not sure about your specific situation, but there are two types of criminals as far as I'm concerned - those who are going to disengage at some point, and those who are crazy enough to keep fighting until I stop them. That's one of the views that informs my strategy, and it doesn't allow me to count on drawing, pointing, and clicking a light if I'm afraid for my life.

Yeah... I don't know about you, but not having to use a gun is a success in my book. What you have with you is a toolbox. If your only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.

 

[BHP FAN]

I have one on one of my rifles,but it's rigged to a dead man switch.My support hands middle finger touches it when holding the rifle normally,in the shooting position.If I want it off,I lift my finger off the switch pad.No clicking or turning,the light is just automatically off.

 

[Coronach]

They're good on defensive guns that you plan on using in the dark. The military and LE are all starting to gravitate towards lights being attached to the weapon. While slavishly following what the cops do could lead to you shooting 50 rounds per year and calling it good, this is one of those instances where they're getting it right. You can't hit what you can't see, you shouldn't shoot what you can't ID, and doing any sort of timed/stress course in lowlight will reveal the usefulness of having a weaponlight. Doing a reload or malfunction drill in the dark will really bring it home- I want a light on my gun, or I want my third arm installed now.

The main criticisms are that you can end up doing some poor light discipline and/or muzzlesweeping everyone you encounter. These are not necessarily so. Just because the light is available doesn't mean it has to be on, it doesn't mean it's the only light you have, and you can see well enough to ID someone with a weaponlight from low-ready or various other positions without pointing the weapon directly at them (though the 'blinding' effect pretty much requires muzzling them).

Mike

 

[MarkDido]

My personal opinion is that you, as a civilian, have NO business searching a darkened building in search of an intruder.

But how long will it take the military to get there?

Sorry, just a peeve of mine. Cops ARE civilians.....

 

[expvideo]

I don't know how comfortable I am with having a stranger with a badge and less range time than me clear my house for me. I can handle my own problems.

ETA:
Nothing against cops. I just think that it is my responsibility to take care of my own safety and the safety of my property. Of course I would rather that this was done with the least amount of force possible, but I would prefer that I was the one making that decision. If I have the option, since I'll be calling them anyway to file a report, I might wait for the cops. It depends on the situation and how confident I am with the circumstances.

 

[Templar223]

They free up your hands for a good two-handed grip.

On the other hand, people start using their gun as a flashlight, covering the wrong things with their muzzle.

Give away your position? You've got to ID the target before you shoot. Learn how to use the light (get training!).

Another downside is a lack of holsters for mounted lights, although some have gotten away from that problem by carrying one more piece of stuff on their belts: the light. Apply as necessary.

I don't have one yet, but will probably get one someday soon.

Lasers?

Eh. In high-stress situations, people tend to squander valuable time looking for that laser spot when they should be shooting instead. Get some instruction. Learn how to do it right and practice a bit. Muscle memory (even a half-forgetful memory) beats using the laser as a crutch.

John


ETA:

I don't know how comfortable I am with having a stranger with a badge and less range time than me clear my house for me. I can handle my own problems.

Young fella:

I vote for letting them earn their pay by acting as a bullet magnet for BGs. If you want to clear your house and risk your bacon for nothin', go ahead. Please, make sure your organ donor card is up to date and signed. I don't mean to sound overly dramatic, but if you've had some training, you'd better understand how single-person home-clearing is far from being without risk under ideal conditions.

 

[conw]

expvideo wrote:

Yeah... I don't know about you, but not having to use a gun is a success in my book. What you have with you is a toolbox. If your only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.

Well, sure.

If your only tool is a 12 ga, all your problems start to run away...just kidding...

But seriously, I am not discounting the flashlight as a tool (one of several/many) and already said so. In fact, again - I don't know the situation - but you deserve more credit than your tool does.

If you read the first posts about this by me, it has more to do with a general disgust at the hype that is used to pass lights off to anyone and everyone as the most useful defense tool -ever-.

 

[expvideo]

Well, sure.

If your only tool is a 12 ga, all your problems start to run away...just kidding...

But seriously, I am not discounting the flashlight as a tool (one of several/many) and already said so. In fact, again - I don't know the situation - but you deserve more credit than your tool does.

If you read the first posts about this by me, it has more to do with a general disgust at the hype that is used to pass lights off to anyone and everyone as the most useful defense tool -ever-.

Well in that sense, I agree with you. Lights are an excellant tool and I will try to convince everyone I talk to that they should carry one. But it is not the be all, end all defense tool that it is advertised as. It is remarkably effective, but not quite as remarkably effective as the ads would have you beleive. It also doesn't help too much if there isn't something more effective (like a gun) to back it up. It also is much more effective with an authoritive and convident voice. Speak loudly and clearly, shine your light in the BG's eyes, and most of the time it won't come to bullets. But that is no guarantee, and not having a "plan b" could get you killed.

 

[LAK]

For those who think a light is always going to give away your position---if the area is lit enough for you to see and/or engage a threat, it is lit enough for the threat to see you, whether or not you have a light. It may not, however, be bright enough for you to satisfy Rule 4.

That depends. If I am going to check an area or approach what I think might be a hostile subject at night I am going to stay in any shadowed or darkened spots or areas.

Much is dependant on the place and layout, however there is not necessarily going to be any correlation in the lighting conditions where I am standing as opposed to where any badguy(s) are at any one given time.

 

[conw]

Just a cool tip that actually works pretty well, riffing on what LAK just said...

If you are trying to visually check a specific area that is dark and hard to see (without using your flashlight), your eyes will make out shapes better if you look at it slightly indirectly...instead of focusing on the dark area that you can't make out, focus just to the left or right and use your peripheral vision to scan. Try it, it will make more sense than it sounds like.