Night Sights or Flashlight?

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Night sights are good to have, if they aren't too bright. I don't have any on my old Marine Corps 1911. Never needed them. Have trained with a flashlight in low light/no light situations for my LE job and even though we used them for brief instances, night vision was shot anyway. In HD, if I hear someone stumbling around my house and I can feel my wife next to me in bed, I don't need to ID. He's an intruder and he/she/it is going down. In Florida it's legal to shoot to stop an intruder and as of last month, it's even legal to shoot a retreating attacker/intruder. So if he/she/it has entrance wounds in the back/butt/back of the head, no problem.

We keep night lights plugged into different sockets in the dining room, living room and guest bathroom, so the entrance to our bedroom is lit enough to see not only the intruder, but what color clothes, he/she/it is wearing and not have to worry about ruined night vision after the first shot. I'd use my Garand for HD but that would go through my house, the one next door and the one behind that.
 
Other. I have very light-sensitive eyes, so I'd have a lot of low-power nightlights around every room and hall, but keep a high-power SureFire or similar for "target blinding/ID'ing", and maybe a single Trijicon or Meprolight type insert in the front-sight (whose obstruction by the rear sight will tell me as much as full night-sights would normal eyes), and definitely a second SureFire mounted on the HD shotgun.

Plans for when I break ground on the home I've designed are lots of remote-triggered indirect lighting all around, hopefully hitting that sweet-spot where I can still see tolerably (I still need some light to see, just not as mch as normal) but normal vision is impaired.
 
goofy grape said:
In HD, if I hear someone stumbling around my house and I can feel my wife next to me in bed, I don't need to ID. He's an intruder and he/she/it is going down.
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While I can appreciate that sentiment, I would still encourage you to confirm your target before you fire, just in case. I imagine that situations where the person was not a burglar are rare, but they certainly do happen. Situations vary, but it could also be anything from a dementia patient that lives on your block, to a son/daughter who has made a surprise visit home from college, to a homicidal maniac who wants you dead.

As a personal example, a few years ago I was dispatched with some other officers to a burglary in-progress call. When we got there a door was standing wide open to the home, no lights were on inside, and (if I recall correctly) there were no cars in the driveway of the home. Anyway, we cleared the home only to find the half-deaf homeowner in a back bedroom. I believe the homeowner thought he was being burglarized by us initially (not readily noticing that we were cops), and he made a move towards his home defense weapon prior to ID'ing us. Similarly, we weren't really sure who he was at the time either, and this could have quickly ended up going very badly for either side of this equation. Fortunately the situation worked itself out safely, without any real issues to any of us, which was fine on all of our parts. The homeowner had a bit of an adrenaline rush, we had a bit of an adrenaline rush, and thankfully no one ended up being shot in a tragic mistake!

But, that situation has served as one constant reminder of why I will always attempt to make a positive ID on a target before I discharge my weapon at someone (what if you or I were that homeowner being surprised by the cops in the middle of the night because we didn't hear them coming? An honest-to-god mix-up could have ended horribly). As an aside, I also find myself announcing my presence before clearing a home in many more situations than I used to (there is always a balance between keeping the element of surprise on a bad guy, or accidentally surprising the good guy)! As they say, there is nothing friendly about friendly fire, so these days I'd rather announce: "Police Department, if you are in the home make yourself known to me now!", then to surprise an armed homeowner and end up with one of us dead through the course of an accident. The good news about announcing (when tactically possible) is that you can usually quickly get a feel for what you have going on... If you receive a response from a shocked homeowner, you probably don't have a burglary. But, if you hear an expletive mumbled, followed by running and scuffling, odds are you've found a bad guy. If you hear nothing, well then you just have to go in and earn your money. :)
 
coloradokevin: Takes guts to do your job! :)

werewolf: The tragedies may be rare but they are preventable. I've been surprised before by a relative from out of town.

Another option that is probably accessible to only a few but solves all of these problems is: NVGs. Hoping to buy a personal set someday. Hard to justify financially since I'd do my best to move out of any place dangerous enough to require them (have young kids).

But if you're the kind of guy who has 4 ARs and 5 pistols, it might be reasonable to ask yourself if some of the money might not be better spent on kevlar and/or NVGs. No criticism, it's not like I don't have a couple extra guns, just sayin' :eek:

Have night sights and flashlight, but would prefer latter only if choice came down to it. Also have lasergrips on one home gun, which help with the targeting but not the ID.

Best regards,
David
 
It's only my wife and I in the house. If my sister in law, or my wife's out of town friend is spending the night, of course I would ID first. But I would believe that OPD would be banging on the door prior to entering. I'm a light sleeper and if I didn't hear the door opening, but glass breaking, or someone bumping into furniture, I would care if it's a dementia patient or a burglar bent on stealing/raping/murdering. My wife is my primary concern and if I feel her warm butt and cold feet next to me, intruder is seconds away from being ventilated. If wife isn't in bed next to me, them I'm going looking, and will ID to be sure. I know my wife in the dark by sight, shape, voice and touch.
 
You need both. The night sights mean nothing if it's dark enough that you can't see your target but if you use them in conjunction with a flashlight they give you more flexibility with your flashlight technique.

If I had to choose one or the other I'd pick the flashlight. You can accurately shoot a gun with regular sights in the dark if you have a bright flashlight, but you can't accurately shoot a gun with night sights when it's really dark without a flashlight.
 
dkk73,

Another option that is probably accessible to only a few but solves all of these problems is: NVGs
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Then again, they might create unforeseen problems.

I have used them a lot in the military and did not like them. First of all, if there is something that completely destroys your own night vision it is night vision goggles. If you have to remove them for some reason, all you are going to see is a great big "black hole". The black hole effect is created because you are going to retain some peripheral vision. This condition can last a minute or two.

I would still take the flashlight.
 
Hello friends and neighbors// I'm with the group that always carries a flashlight.

Identifying target is IMHO the First priority if flashlight is needed use it.. Attached to my flashlight is a whistle to further disorient BG and alarm others. // Perhaps someone in house waiting to call 911 or neighbors close enough to hear and identify whistle as danger signal.

Every situation is different but I believe Second priority is makeing BG seek life elsewhere. Not get into immediate shooting. Depending on ammo used bullet can go thru your wall and neighbors. This will not make you very popular.

With light and sound BG should bug out quickly. If not, then this may be more than burgular. I would then call 911 (if you haven't already), and retreat to room with other family members. Not seek and destroy ,leave this for the pros.

This is the time for "night sights" to cover hallway or doorway safely without exposing yourself. In low light a stainless or nickle firearm reflects enought light to become a target so my HD/SD are all blued.


I have always used a mini -mag flashlight with twist on/off switch. Thanks to this thread I will be obtaining a push button. Seems more practical in tacital situations////

Any suggestions on small (pocketable) metal cased,reliable, push button flashlight?
 
My Glock 21 has an LED light mounted on the rail. My wife was very happy with that when I put it on. For a test run, I waited until it was night and cleared the weapon (mag out, verified by both of us to be clear) and then walked out from the MBR with the light on. All she could see was the light, not the gun behind it. Lots of spillover from the light. The hotspot lines up perfect so I don't feel the need for night sights, and the spillover is enough to illuminate the hall from the bedrooms across my living room to the laundry room (the longest shot I have in the house is about 20 feet). She was pretty much blind from the light, even though I wasn't pointing at her. Light switch is just a flip down from the trigger finger.

My money stays on a lower frame mounted light over a handheld light.
 
content said:
Hello friends and neighbors// I'm with the group that always carries a flashlight.
...
I have always used a mini -mag flashlight with twist on/off switch. Thanks to this thread I will be obtaining a push button. Seems more practical in tacital situations////

Any suggestions on small (pocketable) metal cased,reliable, push button flashlight?
Click to expand...

Ooooh. That's like entering any forum or social group and honestly saying, "Hey I'm looking for religion, anyone got any thoughts or advice?" ;)

I have been exceedingly happy with the Surefire lock-out tail caps. Took me about a week to get used to the idea at first, but the ergonomics are pretty much perfect. You can get whichever light suits you from their line-up.

I finally bit the bullet and got a used A2 Aviator with the low-light yellow-green LED (also has a bright incandescent). Absolutely zero regrets; I use it more than any other flashlight ever. I live in a place where you really need one esp. in winter. It's old-school in some ways but I'm glad I chose it.

Any lithium-powered design will also offer the benefit of the batteries not self-discharging if it sits on top of your handgun safe for months. But if you carry it's obviously less of an issue.

If you have a year to spare, head over to:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/portal/index.php
and learn more than you could ever imagine about flashlights.

Cheers,
David
 
JVoutilainen said:
Then again, they might create unforeseen problems.
...
If you have to remove them for some reason, all you are going to see is a great big "black hole". The black hole effect is created because you are going to retain some peripheral vision. This condition can last a minute or two.
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Point well-taken. I probably should not have spoken so glibly about about NVG's "solving" all these problems. :eek:

The field-of-view is limited as you imply in discussing the black hole effect. Moreover, the limited field-of-view is itself a problem. Natural low-light vision is better in the periphery and so you are giving that up, plus your ability to detect that motion, with the rig on. Plus the binocular rigs are even more expensive so you are talking a monocular unit probably...

So, I guess it's more of a consideration for someone really worried about determined bad actors who are willing to train and factor in the limitations.

Sounds like we're all really favoring the light...
 
Any suggestions on small (pocketable) metal cased,reliable, push button flashlight?
Click to expand...
The Fenix L1T V2.0 is a light worth checking out. It's a little big for a pocket but works well on the belt. I carry one all the time and use it frequently. I don't know how people get along without a flashlight...
 
If you are going to tote it around, the best option would be to spend on one that's suitable for weapons mounting. If it can handle the recoil of being mounted to the front of a shotgun...it won't get screwed up in your pocket.

If it's for home defense, The Ultra-Fire W5xx series xenon lights is a good option...the tailcap needs a few dots of blue loctite, but it's ridiculously powerful. I do carry mine, but it's not an easy carry due to it's length (uses 4 cr123 batteries). Batteries are cheap if you get them online, a buck a piece for decent cr123s.
 
They are just shooting in the dark, John.
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:D :D
I had to pull my flashlight today to help someone. They were crawling around under a table in a dimly lit area looking for something that they had dropped. Found it in about 5 seconds once I illuminated the area...
 
I'm a big believer in flashllights. I have some Blackbears and so do my family, also have surefires on weapons. All those weapons have night sight even the rifles. I didn't have the option of either when I served though we did sometimes tape one on a shotgun. Lighting though and second and third shift oldtimers willl agree is a nice to have. Just using tritium sights and having eyes adjusted to the dark I was formadable. All these tools just add to your skill level. I've had th experience at night to know what I need others may be different.

Night fighting for me is an AR15 with two 30's taped and a surefire light regulated a 50 yds. The gun has tritium sights if I go black I still have alignment. These are rare occasions but I'm Ready.
 
Night sites are neat, but you have to verify your target, it's the responsible thing to do. The only question is should one use a handheld flashlight or a weapon mounted light?
Mauserguy
 
In my defense if someone is moving about in the dark in my home that shouldn't be there my dogs would be going nuts. That's enough ID for me.
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I wish my dog were smart enough to do all my target ID... I'd teach her to shoot and just sleep through the problem.
I've seen family pets get confused and alert on, even attack, family members. Before I shoot, I'm going to know what my target is. My dog would have a fit if a kitted up fireman was in my house, but I wouldn't want to shoot him. Rule 4 is the responsibility of the shooter, and can't be delegated.
 
I don't believe I know anyone who is retired LE or still current that worked Prior to nightsites that don't have them. The small flashlights are neet too but once on night vision is gone. Most guys I know keep the lights off until necesarry.




Jim
 
IMO, night sights are virtually useless, but a flashlight is absolutely necessary. You MUST positively identify your target before engaging it, and, once you do that with the flashlight, you can see standard sights just fine. I'm sure there are some exceptions to this rule, but they are few, and will never apply to the vast majority of us.
 
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