Are Gun Companies Still Building the .40?

[Phriend]

I've heard that most gun companies no longer build .40's from the ground up. Instead, they simply take 9mm handguns and more-or-less add a .40 barrel to them.

Is this true?

I've also heard that some people are concerned with the reliability of .40 handguns because of this. (In other words, if the .40 isn't built from the ground up -- it probably won't last as long).

Your thoughts?

 

[Tyris]

This was a valid concern in the mid 1990s, it has been resolved as far as I can tell.

-T

 

[ceetee]

My understanding was that things went in just the reverse: The first .40's were just 9mm's with stronger springs. Once the cartridge proved to be commercially viable, whole handguns were designed for the round. I could be wrong.

 

[Deanimator]

The first .40's were just 9mm's with stronger springs.

That's what Tanfoglio tried with the first .40S&W TZ75s. That didn't work, so they took to scoring the inside of the chambers with annular rings that caused the case to resist being ejected before the bullet left the barrel. Unfortunately, those rings also resisted a loaded round ENTERING the chamber.

A friend had two of the first .40S&W guns. I wouldn't hesitate to leave either one of those guns and a loaded magazine among a bunch of toddlers. Not only could they probably not open the slide against the resistance of the 500lb. recoil spring, but there was an almost 100% guarantee that the casemouth would hang-up in the chamber preventing loading a round. And even if they were able to somehow chamber a loaded round, they almost certainly couldn't fire two consecutive rounds without a [for them] unclearable jam.

My friend sent the first one back. The replacement he received was nearly as bad. He might have gotten TWO consecutive shots without a jam on at least one occasion.

He finally gave up, followed my advice, and bought one of the first Glock 22s. He's never looked back.

 

[jerkface11]

Pretty much every .40 on the market is still based on a 9mm or a .45. The Steyr is the only exception I know of as it was designed to be a .40 from the ground up and the other chamberings are based on it.

 

[Roccobro]

I just read an article about the Beretta PX4 storm pistol. They designed the gun around the .40 as they knew it would work for the 9mm also. If you build a 9mm, there is still some safety testing to be done to convert for the higher pressure and larger size .40S&W round.

Justin

 

[sig226]

Let's see: The Sig P229 was designed to be a .40 S&W. The P228 used a stamped slide that couldn't tolerate the forces of the .40 S&W cartridge, so they machined the P229 slide from bar stock to strengthen it. They also made two different P226 models for a while. The 9mm had a stamped slide, the .40 had a machined slide.

The P239 was designed after the .40 S&W was an established cartridge. Although it fires both calibers, you could say that it was designed around the .40.

AFAIK, the Smith and Wesson 40xx series of pistols were converted 9mm guns. In that case, they probably didn't need to strengthen the slide since the 59xx series pistols already had a very heavy slide.

The Beretta 92 F/S had already been strengthened to tolerate NATO ammunition. If you get to put a 92F/S next to a 92 F, you can see that parts of the slide are thicker, and Beretta installed a block under the left grip so that if the slide failed, it wouldn't blast off the back of the gun and hit the shooter in the eye. I think they left the design alone for the .40.

One failure I've heard of was the Browning High Power. This pistol has a trigger bar that passes under the firing chamber, in between the feed ramp and the frame. The .40 S&W used a larger chamber, which meant the end of the barrel had to be wider to accomodate the chamber. This intruded on the space for the trigger bar, so they made a cut next to the ramp for the trigger bar. This gave it a noticeable weak spot in the chamber wall. I'm told that some of these barrels failed catastrophically, but I can't provide links and never saw one myself.

I don't know about Glock and Heckler & Koch.

 

[Spyvie]

The FNP pistols were supposedly designed to be .40s from the start

 

[GaryP]

The HK USP 40F & 40C were designed for the 40S&W from day one!

 

[Crow1108]

I know Sig went with a milled stainless slide as opposed to the original stamped slide for the .40 in their P226.

 

[JohnnyGrey]

I just read an article about the Beretta PX4 storm pistol. They designed the gun around the .40 as they knew it would work for the 9mm also. If you build a 9mm, there is still some safety testing to be done to convert for the higher pressure and larger size .40S&W round.

Justin

AFAIK, the 9mm is a higher pressure round than the .40 and the .45.

 

[8830]

The only ones that I know of that were built for the 40 round was the Sig P229 and the HK USP.

 

[possum]

yep the usp was built around the .40

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Depending on the maker, either or both.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Not unlike car mfgr's using interchangeable parts in various models, same with many pistols....I was surprised how many parts were interchangeable for the Daewoo 9mm & their DH40.....It makes sense & assists the consumer if things work out okay....

 

[ugaarguy]

Pretty much every .40 on the market is still based on a 9mm or a .45. The Steyr is the only exception I know of as it was designed to be a .40 from the ground up and the other chamberings are based on it.

Other pistols designed after the 40 S&W was established which took that cartridges into account in their design include the aforementioned SIG 229 (Replaced the 228), SIG 239, and HK USP / USPc; as well as FN FNP, S&W M&P, HK P2K, and HK P30. Glock, Ruger, and Springfield XD / HS 2000 are the three major makers I can think of which are still using more or less modified 9mm frames. Glock did some major reenforcement on their 40/357 frames after problems though. Rugers are big, heavy, overbuilt tanks of handguns so I doubt it matters on them. The S&W 3rd Gen autos were also pretty beefy, but they're being phased out in favor of the M&P lineup.

there is still some safety testing to be done to convert for the higher pressure and larger size .40S&W round.
AFAIK, the 9mm is a higher pressure round than the .40 and the .45.

Both the 9mm and 40 S&W have a 35,000 PSI max pressure by SAAMI standards, while .45 ACP is 21,000 PSI standard / 23,000 PSI for +P. 9mm +P has a SAAMI max pressure of 38,500 PSI, and .357 SIG is listed at 40,000 PSI max. .357 Magnum is also 35,000 PSI max.