Are K31s really that unreliable?

[telomerase]

Some people claim that the K31 is unreliable due to its lack of mechanical advantage. Just how often has anyone seen their K31 lock up from fouling? Is this a good reason to buy an M44 instead

...anyway, this is the standard "which milsurp to buy right now" question. Are there still any decent deals left? How are those M48s I see in the shops marked "genuine SS K98"?

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Dude have you ever shot a mismatched M44? most of them lock up due to normal operation pressure.

 

[jerkface11]

I locked my K31 up a few of times. Not due to fouling though. A couple of times from improperly sized cases and a couple more from overly long catridges. And yes you do notice the lack of mechanical advantage.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

And by the way I love my M44. Despite it's problems, it is a great little gun.

(heh, little...)

 

[cracked butt]

Some people claim that the K31 is unreliable due to its lack of mechanical advantage. Just how often has anyone seen their K31 lock up from fouling? Is this a good reason to buy an M44 instead

First question: The worst I've done was stick a cartridge because I seated the bullet too far out.
Second question: NO! M44s (and M38s) are a neat novelty, but I've never been impressed by them.

 

[telomerase]

most of them lock up due to normal operation pressure.

They're famous for "sticky bolt", thus the

I guess I should have posted "K31, Mauser, or Enfield?"

 

[R.W.Dale]

most of the mosins problems stem from a half centuries buildup of laquer deposits in the chamber. A good couple minutes of flitz and a cordless drill usually has em operating a smooth a silk.

As we would use a K31, weeked shooting collecting and plinkin I don't think it's shortcomings would matter at all. However if you plan on travelling back in time and using one in the trenches of the Somme I would definitely give them a pass for a platform more forgiving in chambering and extraction.

I've stuck my K31 a couple times mostly in the same manner Jerkface points out. Yes you notice the lack of mechanical advantage in that chambering and unloading a K31 is an all or nothing affair, You just can't do it gently as you can on a turnbolt

I can hear the Kool/Aid drinkers coming now to call me all sorts of nasty names for besmirching their lady's honor

 

[rust collector]

My K31 has been utterly reliable with issue ammunition. Handloads should use small base dies and length must be carefully controlled. Keep them scrupulously clean and greased as the original owners did, and problems should be rare.

M44 was made to be abused, they are inclined to sticky bolt syndrome even with a clean chamber, and their best attribute is that they will usually send a round downrange

M48 sounds like your best bet if you are put off by the tight tolerances and lack of mechanical advantage of the K31, but want a bit better accuracy than the M44. Each has its own personality, and all are great fun.

 

[Trebor]

The K 31 is fine as a range gun or a hunting arm. I've yet to have any malfunctions with mine.

Just looking at the tolerances, and the design, I would question how well it would have stood up to battlefield use.

The basic design is sound though, so don't worry about it, unless you run your guns like you're in the mud of WWI.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

K31s are extremely reliable and precise guns. Sounds like someone is spreading around FUD to defer you to another rifle.

In response to your second questions, M48s are NOT German K98s from the war and they are certainly NOT SS rifles.

 

[PTK]

I've been through about 500 rounds so far, and no problems.

 

[rust collector]

On the topic of which milsurp to buy right now, you might want to check out AIM's 24/47s. I got one of an earlier batch, and have enjoyed it. This does not reflect negatively on any of the other rifles mentioned (I don't have an M48) but adds another option at less than $150.

Of course, AIMsurplus is so swamped with EBR and ammo orders now, it may take awhile to get through to them. Good folks to do business with.

 

[O'DubhGhaill]

Never liked Kool-aid much, but "[L]ack of mechanical advantage..."? I use GP11 exclusively and have never had a problem of any kind, whatsoever. Have had quite a few from time to time with my ARs though...

Pick up a K31 while they last. Try to use GP11 (Sportsman's Guide has good prices for it, especially with Buyers' Club and a coupon with 4-pay). Once in a while you can find some sweet ones on GunBroker. You won't be disappointed.

 

[Coronach]

Some people claim that the K31 is unreliable due to its lack of mechanical advantage.

Only an issue if you cannot clean the gun regularly, you use ammo that is borderline spec, or you end up getting mud/dirt/debris gunk into the action. In short, it may be an issue for a combat arm, but it's a non-issue for almost every one in the USA.

Just how often has anyone seen their K31 lock up from fouling?

Never.

Is this a good reason to buy an M44 instead?

No. Not that you need a reason to go by an m44, but buying a gun that is known to lock up tight enough in normal use to require Ye Olde Two Bye Four to break it open because you're afraid that your finely-engineered swiss straight-pull might not work smoothly if you pour clay mud into the action is just silly.

Seriously? It might have been an issue in a muddy battlefield- might- but it's not an issue for us. It's a great gun.

Mike

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

This is the first I've heard of a K31 locking up for any reason. Mine has been 100% reliable, but I've only used GP11 and Prvi Partizan ammo in it. The action, to me, is smooth as butter and it completely extracts and ejects every time.

 

[Float Pilot]

The K31s are a super well made, very acurate rifle,, made to shoot high quality ammunition, at long ranges, into the heads of would-be invaders. As a result the invaders went elsewhere. So nobody knows for sure just how they would have worked in a long drawn-out, battle situation. But they seem to have been soldier proof for half a dozen decades.


If you want the mechanical advantage and super accuracy / workmanship then get a Swedish Mauser. They also need a diet of good ammunition. Some of the Swede Mausers did see combat against the Russians in Finland as rifles issued to some Finn troops or with the Swede Troops who marched across the boarder and "volunteered" to kill the Reds by the battalion load.

The Yugo M-48s are not a true M-98. They are a slightly shorter intermediate length action. But they are usually new and fairly inexpensive.

The 24/47s are pretty nice for the money.

The Persian Contract Mausers are SUPER PRETTY, but kinda spendy

The Vz-24s are great, just like all BRUNO products.

I think I would rather have a nice Enfield than another Mosin. Actually I do since I sold my clunky Mosins for Enfelds.

My Swede Mausers will outshoot all the above. A swiss K31 might beat one of my Swedes on a good day depending on the ammo. Since I handload for max accuracy from both, it is a toss up at this point. The Swede M/38 rifle fitting me the best. The Swede M/96 long rifle being slightly more accurate from the bench due to the longer sight radius.

 

[NC-Mike]

On the topic of which milsurp to buy right now, you might want to check out AIM's 24/47s.

It may be the best value on the market. I got one from Classic Arms that must have had a new barrel put on when it was rearsenaled. It it is fantastic shape. Not even a speck in the barrel and the general metal and bluing condition is beautiful.

Where else can you get a large ring Mauser action rifle in that shape for 129.00

 

[jws527]

I own all three of those rifles: the K31 (my first rifle purchase, incidentally), an actual German (not Yugo) K98, and an arsenal refinished M44 (and 91/30).

Of the three types, the only ones that have given me any trouble whatsoever are the Mosins. I was fortunate (or meticulous) enough to avoid stuck bolt syndrome in both of my rifles, but I have had feeding problems with both of them. The Mosin magazine is a very simple affair: a flat spring with a narrow piece of steel at the top that pushes the rounds upwards. From time to time, a cartridge will get caught on the lip of the chamber (especially when the magazine is full), which requires a bit of fiddling with the bolt and one's fingers to unjam. From what I can see, the lose tolerances of these rifles occasionally allow the tip of a cartridge to wander forward and catch the bottom of the chamber from underneath. Sometimes, the lip of the brass where it meets the bullet will actually get caught - though this might have more to do with the cheap surplus I'm using than the gun itself. FWIW, both of my Mosins are original factory-matching rifles (i.e. receiver, buttplate, magazine floor plate, and bolt).

I'll second what the others have said about the performance of the M44: it's a lot of fun (especially because it fires the cheapest surplus rifle round available), but it leaves something to be desired in terms of accuracy. If you want a Mosin that will actually shoot well, you'll probably have better luck with a 91/30 or, better yet, a Finn. Thing is, you can get a K31 or a Yugo Mauser for a lot less than a decent Finn, so the Finns tend to be more attractive to Mosin enthusiasts. I use my M44 as a blasting/plinking rifle, because it's pretty useless for serious target shooting beyond 50 meters.

I don't know how the K31 would perform will perform when subjected to the elements, but I've never had a problem with it otherwise. If and when I finally try deer hunting, that will most likely be the rifle that I take.

The Mauser 98 is a solid design all around with few (if any) significant flaws.

FWIW, my next Milsurp purchase will probably be an Enfield, if I can find one for a decent price.

 

[me26245]

k31

Currently I own all the different rifles that have been reffered to in this thread. Each weapon has it's good and bad points.

K31-typical swiss craftmanship, ammunition around but can be expensive, cost around $200 from wholesalers.

M48 / K98 - Both can be had. Most K98's on the market today are "RC" russian capiture. Cost starting about $225 and up. The M48's starting price $130 and up, 8mm ammo is pretty easy to find prices have gone up on it a lot. One nice thing about this calibure, cartridge cases can be made from 30-06/270 cases if you reload.

M44 - Cheapest of the surplus offerings at this time. Cosmetically they normally look beat up, however most on the market have been arsenel refurbished so they look as issued. Ammunition right now is plentiful, but prices have risen. They are normally good solid guns, with quirks like bolt sticking.

Accuracy wise, well someone mentioned Swedish mausers and I'd go that route for accuracy, but in my experiance the Swiss K31 would typically be the most accutrate of the weapons in question.
As far as carring the weapon the M44 with it's short barrel length would make it easier to carry in the brush, but the safety on these leaves a lot to be desired when compaired to the other weapons.

I don't have any target pictures from the M44-M91/30-M39 shoot, and I haven't had time to take out the 8mm rifles. I do have a couple of targets from the K31's and maybe a swedish mauser or two I'll try to attach.

The first two targets are K-31's at 100 yds with Priv 174gr JSP's, Last target is M96 swedish at 100 yds with surplus 139 gr FMJ ball, open sights from a bench using a sandbag rest.

 

[jpwilly]

^^ Sure sure, just cover up the holes you don't want us to see!

 

[Wedge]

I like my M44, but wish I had spent the extra cash on a Finnish M39 instead. You won't notice the extra $150 you had to spend after it's gone.

K31 is way nicer, definitely still on my list as a "must have".

 

[Big Matt]

I have a follow-up question regarding the k31. I plan on using GP11 ammo exclusively in my rifle and wonder about the "reliability issues" mentioned. It seems as though these issues are only with reloaded or inconsistent ammo. Is this correct; and can I expect to avoid these issues by only using the GP11?

 

[spiroxlii]

I have a K31. I've only had one box of GP11 surplus Swiss ammo to put through it. The rest of the ammo I've shot through it has been Prvi Partizan stuff. This is a beautiful, accurate rifle. It is also reliable. I have never had a problem with it "locking up" on me, and I suspect that it will continue to be reliable as long as I do my part in using good ammo and keeping it clean.

Granted, I've only shot about 300 rounds out of mine since I got it, but it's the second most buttery smooth gun in my collection right after my Remington 870 Wingmaster. It just doesn't feel like it's in danger of locking up.

I have six Mosin-Nagants, on the other hand. Two M44s, two hex receiver 91/30s, and two round receiver 91/30s. When they're dirty, they require a mallet to open the bolt.

 

[jws527]

I've never had an issue with GP11. It's clean and accurate. It's also non-corrosive. I'd consider it borderline match grade.

I must be the luckiest Mosin owner alive - that, or pouring the quart of boiling water down the receiver when I first took delivery went a long way towards removing any accumulated cosmo or anything else. I remember putting a couple dozen rounds down my M44 over the course of maybe 15 minutes. The barrel was so hot that the remaining cosmoline deep inside the stock was bubbling the surface, and it was taking some of the shellac finish with it. Even still, I had absolutely no trouble with the bolt.

 

[Slamfire]

Some people claim that the K31 is unreliable due to its lack of mechanical advantage. Just how often has anyone seen their K31 lock up from fouling?

The Swiss never used their rifle in combat. I really doubt it would have done well in the mud of Flanders.

I can recall having a powder spill in my K31. I had seated the bullet out to the length recommended by reloading manuals. Those manuals gave out lengths that were way too long for the K31. So the bullet was stuck in the throat. It was difficult to open the bolt, and I got powder in the locking area. My recollection was that it caused binding. And it was hard to wipe out.

The Swiss built a very expensive rifle around a home brew design. Across the border was the best turn bolt action ever, the Mauser 98, and they adopted the Schmidt Rubin. They built the Schmidt to ungodly levels of precision (all bolts interchange across twenty years + of production!) and this rifle required ammunition of equal precision.

I really doubt that this rifle would have performed satisfactorily with the junky ammunition that a Lee Enfield would swallow.

(Lee Enfield, best bolt battle rifle; M98, best bolt action ever built)

I like my K31, I am not going into battle with it, it is an accurate and slick rifle when fed good ammo.

It is also too complicated for someone like Private Jessica (who could not clear a jam in a M16), is too expensive to make, and requires making ammunition of to a quality level that would be hard to sustain under wartime pressures.

I guess the Swiss were counting on a short war.