Are Modern Flintlocks produced

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I have a couple of Lyman Great Plains rifles. They're great guns, but they're the wrong guns for the American Revolution. Those crescent shaped buttplates weren't in favor back then.

I'd rather have a Brown Bess replica if I was portraying the American Revolution Minute Man.
 
but they will perform waaay beyond what today's modern "experts" predict:
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WRONG! :banghead:

Instead of loading the musket with a .735 round ball, try using the ammunition of the day, a .690 ball, and see how accurate you are?

(Why would you do that?) Because under combat conditions you have to get that thing loaded in 15 seconds, AND you don't get time to swab the bore, so IF you use that large, accurate ball instead of the .690... your musket will not be loadable after about the fifth shot (and the combat load went from 18 shots to 23 shots during the war)... so yeah you hit five guys, but the rest of the enemy is still shooting at you and you're stuck standing there in line with an explensive club or if you're lucky enough to have a bayonet, a short spear... and if you scamper off your own sergeant or officer will shoot you down for desertion.

Why you would consider buying a musket when you could buy a flintlock rifle is beyond comprehension.
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Well... first the rifles of the day cost two month's pay for the average working man, while the smoothbore fowler or fusil cost two week's pay.

Second..., It took at least 30 seconds for a rifle to be reloaded using a patched ball, and after about the third or forth shot, you have to stop and take about two minutes to swab the bore. During that reloading or that cleaning, the rifle is a club as it cannot have a bayonet mounted... now true... if you're smart you'd scamper off to reload or swab, but the British Light Infantry wasn't stupid, and understood that creeping up through the woods, and catching folks reloading or cleaning rifles was a good idea, and the Light Infantry could shoot or could charge as they had bayonets...

Besides, when it's raining that nice clean rifle is a club... that British Brown Bess is a spear, so don't get caught napping when it's raining or at night when you can't see your sights, as the musketmen really didn't care much about taking enemy riflemen "prisoner"... know what I mean? :eek:

They tried defending a fort, Fort Washington, with a large force of five companies of Rebel riflemen supporting the Rebel musketmen.... when the smoke cleared more than 450 of the attacking British and Hessians were dead or wounded, while the Rebels had only 158 killed or wounded (so yes the rifles plaid a big roll) ... the fort still fell, and 2800 Rebel soldiers were captured, including a large part of the the Pennsylvania and Maryland Rifle regiments. :what:

LD
 
Anyway... as for the thread... for a Minute Man a Fowler or a Fusil as folks have mentioned. For a militia man, from most of the colonies, A Bess, or a copy of a Bess locally made (French muskets were Continental Army only guys). PA didn't really form a militia until the Rev War folks, while Massachusetts, Virginia, and Maryland had militias (and Maryland also had Ranger Companies), from the early 1600's. In a few of the colonies, a rifle would also work.

LD
 
A well traveled and experienced British officer wrote, "I never in my life saw better rifles than those made in America" British General George Hanger.

Talk to TVM and get a Kentucky!!!!


But, like you said, if budget is a concern, ain't it all with most of us, than get what you want but good luck with anything you decide upon. :)
 
but they will perform waaay beyond what today's modern "experts" predict:
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wrong! :banghead:
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Actually they will. Whether loaded with undersize balls or pea-gravel in the "old days," a properly loaded Bess these days will reliably take your head off at 50 yards every time, and in the heart-lungs at 75.
1qfwur.jpg

As to "...after about the third or forth shot, you have to stop and take about two minutes to swab the bore" of an actual rifle, it actually takes about 10 seconds for a spit-dampened patch to be once shoved down the bore and back out. (which is the way we do it when shooting steel silhouette/animals) No big deal, but admittedly not too conducive to actual battleline tactics.)

(Soooooo... that's also was why God invented rifled muskets ...and the Minie ball.)

Today.... today I'm going to wring out the best that the weapons "of the day" can do.
 
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Lawrence Babits (Devil of a Whipping) explains the accuracy issue of the Brown Bess. What do we do that they didn't do back then? We practice. The average red coat only went through the motions but actual live fire practice was often seen as a waste of powder and lead.

ETA: MEHarvey - I'd scream like a child at the "he would have hurt" miss. That's also close enough to the femoral that if struck, would lead to bleeding out.
 
I've hunted and competed mostly with a 50 caliber Hatfield flinter and did well with it and always thought that the lock time was very good which is one of the keys in a flinter for good accuracy. That is until I bought a custom half stocker with a RE Davis lock on it.

Holy smokes, it was worlds above and beyond that Hatfield lock.
 
Crawdad1 said:
Very knowledgeable but you mention anything below a purely custom built rifle sometimes they can and will redirect you to another forum. That's all I'm going to say.
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Possibly true of some there, but like anything, you have to decide what to sift out and what to save. Offered as a resource. Either way lots of knowledge and many there are helpful to a fault. If you want to dive in the deep end of the pool, it's worth a visit, or so it seems to me.
 
Either way lots of knowledge and many there are helpful to a fault. If you want to dive in the deep end of the pool, it's worth a visit, or so it seems to me.
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I wholeheartedly agree and well said. :)
 
if you're smart you'd scamper off to reload or swab, but the British Light Infantry wasn't stupid, and understood that creeping up through the woods, and catching folks reloading or cleaning rifles was a good idea, and the Light Infantry could shoot or could charge as they had bayonets...
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Well, since we seem to be veering back into historical discussion, I can verify that. The Regulars (that's what they were called because we were all British) were not stupid. During their retreat from Concord the Regulars used flankers to surprise unwary colonials who were hiding behind trees and walls.

At the Jason Russel house in Menotomy, still standing although the town is known as Artlington today, the bloodiest conflict of the day took place, resulting in more colonial deaths in one location than anyplace else along the Battle Road.

General Hugh Percy had issued orders for all the dwellings along the road to be cleared of snipers, and homes were being ransacked and torched.

The Russel house was close up against the road. Jason Russel was 58 years old in 1775. His wife had fled to a house further from the road, but Jason was old, lame, and stubborn, and determined to defend his property. He had been preparing to reshingle his house, and decided to build a sort of breastworks from the bales of shingles with the help of some militia men. Some of the men hid behind the bales of shingles, others stationed themselves in an orchard behind the house. On the other side of the road militia from Danvers were preparing an ambush for the approaching Regulars.

Unfortunately, all the Colonial men's attention was on the advancing line of Redcoats on the road. They were caught completely by surprise from the rear by flankers. The survivors of the first onslaught ran to the house for cover. Russel was too slow, he was shot twice and bayoneted eleven times on his doorstep. The rest of the militia fled into the house. Eight men from Danvers, Beverly and Lynn hid in the cellar. They were able to hold off the Regulars but a total of twelve colonials and two Regulars were killed at the house. When Mrs Russel returned to her house she said the blood was almost ankle deep.

The dead were buried in a common grave where they still rest today under a granite obelisk. The house is a Historic Landmark today and despite being renovated there are still bullet holes evident in the stairs.


****************


There was a great deal of sniper activity that day. The great majority of the militia were armed with muskets, not rifles. So the muskets must not have been too inaccurate to be effective as sniper's weapons. No, I have no figures for the distances most of the sniping was done from. It would be interesting to know the distances.
 
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Those fishbelly fowlers were certainly around, but they're earlier guns and ignores that those older guns would gradually be replaced by newer, slimmer fowlers or even trade guns. Suggested reading for this thread: George Neuman's Battle Weapons of the American Revolution and his book (co-authored by Frank Kravic), Collector's Encyclopedia of the American Revolution. There are other great books out there.

BTW, I would add that muskets were preferred over fowlers. They were heavier and could take more abuse. They could also take a bayonet. That said, a minute man used what they had (and when confiscations happened, the Redcoat didn't care to distinguish).
 
fowler

Many who answered the alarm would have been armed with a smoothbore fowler.
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Fowlers...very common firearm. Versatile, accurate.
I have a 20 gauge from TVM....weighs 8+lbs.
Fowleronsnowydeck-1.jpg
I have this one....a New England pattern circa 1769 (#9 in Grinslade's "Flintlock Fowlers: The first guns made in America"). Made by Mike Brooks. Six pounds four ounces. 16 gauge.
Certainly more delicate than a military musket.
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There are so many choices. I'm thinking the Lyman gpr will be the flintlock for me. I need to do some research into twist rates so I can shoot both patched balls and modern bullets with accuracy
 
The GPRs are designed for roundball: 1:60 twist.

A 50 caliber roundball at hunting loads/velocities will be more than flat enough
& deadly enough to fully handle anything within your effective sight range.


.
 
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