Are poorly formed cast bullets unsafe or just inaccurate?

[barnfrog]

As some have seen in another thread, I am loading up my first cast bullets. They were home cast (i.e. not commercially produced) but not by me. So far I have been putting aside the ones that did not have good mold fill out and have some small voids on the sides. None of the bases have any voids.

It stands to reason that these bullets are not going to perform as well as the better formed ones, but is there a safety concern if I do load and shoot them? Seems like if the bases are good and I get good fill of the lube grooves they should still seal in the barrel. Maybe be extra careful to check for squibs anyway? None of the info I've read on cast bullets indicates it's unsafe to shoot poorly formed bullets, just a waste of good lead.

Thanks in advance to the collective brain trust.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I think they will be safe. If you can please post some pics of them.

 

[243winxb]

To small in diameter, undersize would not be good. Neck tension, bullet hold must be strong enough to keep bullets from moving. In autos and revolvers.

 

[King Medallion]

If they are bad, recast them. Shooting bad bullets is silly. Should have been tossed back in the pot right off the bat. That's what I did.

 

[Bazoo]

If they have wrinkles, they will shoot just fine. If only a slight scum In them, unless it’s enough to affect size or makes a hole on the driving band, they shoot fine. But holes indicate air pockets and I generally reject them. Slight rounded of the bands isn’t an issue provided it’s consistent. I reject these too, now—I once shot them because I needed bullets and didn’t want to cast forever to get them. But a badly deformed band, only on one side gets rejected no matter what.

 

[reddog81]

Depends on how big the voids or wrinkles are. I’ve seen some pictures from people online that will only accept bullets that are 100% perfect and any small imperfection gets rejected. Conversely I’ve seen some pictures of a persons entire casting session that would have been thrown back in the pot it it was me.

If the base is completely filled out and only a small void or wrinkle is present I’ll usually keep them. I have a tub of powder coat that is a mixture of various powder coat dumps and I usually toss my “seconds” in there.

 

[adcoch1]

If the size is off due to deformation you risk leading up your barrel, but other than making your cleaning a chore, it's not dangerous just a waste of lead. Casting is a fun hobby on it's own, and getting good bullets is occasionally challenging. Embrace the challenge. Recasting a bad or deformed bullet is just more practice.

 

[mdi]

Dangerous? No. Inaccurate? Possibly. Depends on how deformed they are...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

They were home cast (i.e. not commercially produced) but not by me.

I'm guessing this means you can't toss them in your own pot and melt them or take them back with a request they be melted and recast. You don't say what caliber or how they measure so really the only thing I can assume is they don't LOOK unsafe to you right off the bat. Probably aren't but, I'd measure them and maybe run them through a sizing die to at least get them close to uniform. JMHO. YMMV.

 

[barnfrog]

I'm guessing this means you can't toss them in your own pot and melt them or take them back with a request they be melted and recast. You don't say what caliber or how they measure so really the only thing I can assume is they don't LOOK unsafe to you right off the bat. Probably aren't but, I'd measure them and maybe run them through a sizing die to at least get them close to uniform. JMHO. YMMV.

You are guessing correctly. I do not yet cast my own, but may give it a whirl some time. I have some molds that I picked up with the same bunch of reloading stuff the bullets and Lube-A-Matic were in. I bought the casting related stuff with the intention of reselling them but haven't gotten around to it. Loaded up and shot all the partial boxes of jacketed bullets and figured I'd try the cast.

The bullets are 158-grain SWCs, based on the fact that they fit exactly into the Lee mold whose box says 158-grain SWC (don't remember the mold number off the top of my head). They're the ones I was mentioning in the other thread that are slightly out of round by about 0.003". After running them through the .358 sizing die they just catch in the throats of my. 357 Blackhawk but will pass through with a couple moderate taps with the eraser end of a pencil. Haven't slugged the barrel yet, but may do so depending on how well the good bullets perform. I'll post a couple pics of the less than perfect ones when I get home after work.

 

[Bazoo]

Out of round bullets don’t present a problem generally. If they are small on one section, say .356 and then .359 across the large section, then you size them to .358, only the large section is going to be moved. The small section is still going to be small and will likely cause leading.

This is off memory, and it’s been a few years. Mike Venterino wrote a piece that was published in The art of bullet casting book. It basically described the various defects and he loaded and shot them against perfect bullets. Base defects and out of balance were the worst but scum on the billet surface, slight rounded bands, wrinkles, and the pulled sprue holes on bases didn’t offer enough variation to be an issue.

I haven’t tested all the variations myself but I have loaded some with minor rounding or wrinkles, and loaded a bunch with scum on the surface with no affect.

 

[LaneP]

Just me but any wrinkled bullets go back in the pot. Frosted bullets are okay but that is a sign I either need to slow my casting tempo or reduce pot temp. As posted previously, minor defects are not a safety issue, they just reduce the overall uniformity of a batch.

 

[twarr1]

Seems to me shooting bad bullets is a waste of powder and primers

 

[barnfrog]

Seems to me shooting bad bullets is a waste of powder and primers

Assuredly true. The question is, how bad is too bad to shoot. Here are the worst ones.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Very ugly. Yuck.

Safety problem? Probably not. OP, you asked about squibs. Low powder charges cause squibs, not bullets even as nasty as these.

Is bad accuracy or barrel leading likely? I'd say there's a strong possibility.

I'd recast them.

But, OP, since you're not really into casting yet, here's what I would suggest that YOU do: load up a dozen or so of the finest bullets from this batch. And load up a dozen rounds from the nastiest bullets you can find in there, like the ones in these four pics. Use the same powder, amount of powder, OAL, etc. Shoot 'em for velocity and accuracy. Note whether or not you see any leading. You'll get the right answer for these bullets, your guns, etc.

If we're talking about a big batch of bullets, and accuracy is fine, but you see leading, you might be able to put gas checks on them to eliminate any leading you observe.

Oh, and let us know what you find. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Docendo Discimus]

Assuredly true. The question is, how bad is too bad to shoot. Here are the worst ones.View attachment 1076393 View attachment 1076394 View attachment 1076395 View attachment 1076396

If this happens you need to turn up the heat and cast faster. Cast as fast as possible to get heat into the mold. If you manage to overheat the mold the bullets will start dropping out with a frosted look. If they start to frost just slow down the casting rate a little. That said if they are sized and lubed correctly and loaded with reputable load data they should not pose a safety hazard if they are shot.

Edit, looking at the pictures more closely this could also be a contamination problem in the mold cavities. Any oil in there can cause serious headaches. I would clean the mold really well with brake cleaner before using it again if I saw this.

 

[AJC1]

Looks a lot like the cold mold blues.... my guess was that the mold wasn't preheated on top of the pot... if you have the casting gear give it a try, you basically can't do any worse...

 

[AzShooter1]

I'd cull them and drop them back in the furnace. Raise your temperature and have at it.

For practice go ahead and shoot them just to shoot but for target shooting I'd be more careful. There won't be any problems with danger on those bullets.

My brother casts about like that and I can't convince him to raise the heat. He's an engineer and no one can tell him what to do so I just let him have at it.

I'd get harassed beyond recognition if one of my shooting buddies saw a bullet like those for competition loads.

It's just a learning exerience. Get a Lyman Thermometer and go to around 750 degrees. Also make sure you put a pea size piece of wax into the pot before you start casting.



Very few if any to cull.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

For those who don’t read the thread before responding, let’s try this one more time

I do not yet cast my own, but may give it a whirl some time.

 

[AJC1]

For those who don’t read the thread before responding, let’s try this one more time

Your not helping motivate..... it's called peer pressure

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Your not helping motivate..... it's called peer pressure

lol. Never worked on me.
Said the dry alky who smoked for 42 years.

 

[Bazoo]

The second pic, that one I’d shoot, as it has a big wrinkle from too cool a mould but the front driving band is intact. The others I’d not shoot. I wouldn’t shoot the second one if I wasn’t hard up, but it would do better that the others. Now, the ones that you don’t show that have just a wrinkle or what looks like a run, but not a missing piece out of the driving band, would be totally fine. That’s a gas checked bullet. You should check them for best results.

 

[barnfrog]

But, OP, since you're not really into casting yet, here's what I would suggest that YOU do: load up a dozen or so of the finest bullets from this batch. And load up a dozen rounds from the nastiest bullets you can find in there, like the ones in these four pics. Use the same powder, amount of powder, OAL, etc. Shoot 'em for velocity and accuracy. Note whether or not you see any leading. You'll get the right answer for these bullets, your guns, etc.

An excellent idea, which I will endeavor to implement.

If we're talking about a big batch of bullets, and accuracy is fine, but you see leading, you might be able to put gas checks on them to eliminate any leading you observe.!

Unfortunately, that's the one cast bullet related item I did sell.

Oh, and let us know what you find. Inquiring minds want to know!

Indeed I will.

 

[barnfrog]

For those who don’t read the thread before responding, let’s try this one more time

It was worth a try.

 

[AJC1]

It was worth a try.

Maybe we read what was said and were hoping that continuous discussion of producing the best ammunition your capable would rule the day... if one has safety concerns based on what they observe I refuse to encourage people to continue in that endeavor. Mail me the lead and I'll make you some decent bullets because what you pictured is garbage.