Are revolver speedloaders legally considered magazines?

[Manco]

David I see your point but I interpret those definitions as including a loaded magazine that isn't inserted. It is also what I have been taught and told growing up.

Not everything we get taught growing up--including by public officials who probably do know better--necessarily reflects legal reality. Take for instance the following case:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6200035#post6200035

Notice that I questioned lawyers in that post, too, because some may be inclined to give you very safe, conservative answers rather than the plain truth. Then again, maybe their knowledge of case history compels them to do so. Since I keep my defensive pistols locked up anyway, I did not explore the issue further.

You and Manco may be right on that one, and I hope you are but I need a little more verification before I start acting on that.

On the other hand, David and I could be wrong, as I can see how the letter of the law could be interpreted differently. That is why case history and precedent are so important. If you can't afford to consult a lawyer, you may be able to look up some relevant cases (arrests in the news and actual cases that made it to court) to see how they turned out. I wish I could be of more help.

Though I don't entirely agree with what you guys said I respect your opinions and thank you for your food for thought

I hope I didn't frustrate you unduly , but I just want to make sure that you don't assume with absolute certainty that you can't do something--tread carefully and do your best to stay within the law, but don't limit your options more than necessary before you find out with greater certainty, that's all. If you must carry a gun in your vehicle now, then I agree that--if anything--carrying an unloaded revolver and loaded speedloader would be the safest in legal terms (probably not necessary, but whatever makes you feel more comfortable).

 

[Jim Watson]

CAUTION: I am not a lawyer.

I think you could carry an empty revolver and a speed loader; obeying the letter of the law while evading the intent of the law so as to "go armed." Note that "go armed" is a term found in a lot of state codes as a catchall.

Thing is, the cop and the DA might not agree and it would be YOU who got to pay the lawyer to explain your position to the judge.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

Jim Watson, public defenders don't cost money. Have you ever been read your rights? or watched cops

On a more serious note, I see your point that cops and the DA would probably not be particularly pleased with my speed loaders, but I feel pretty confident a PD could get me off with no charges.

Manco, you got me. I must admit I was a little flustered. I was pretty confused about your intentions questioning everything I said, as you don't seem argumentative or ignorant.

Interesting story you linked me to. Didn't want to dig up an old thread but I think a ruger 10/22 with 30 rnd mags and cci stingers would be an excellent HD gun for a well trained kid. Wish my 11 yr old cousin was more mature so I could give him our grandfathers .22. The kid needs to grow up I've never seen a more childish 11 yr old.

I will try to find some cases from the area related to my question, but its not a big city or have a relatively high crime rate, so I'm not too sure I'll find one that relates to my question, especially the speed loader part.

I did ask my "gun nut" buddy from WA whose a fire fighter (not LEO but he personally knows some) and he was pretty sure I could have the speed loaders, as they are not considered part of the gun. But he said I should call the local courthouse before spending my money on a lawyer, which seems like a great idea to me.

When I figure out for sure which county I'm moving to, I'll call them up and see if they can answer my question. When I do that I'll be sure to post or PM you to say I told you so

I really do hope your right about the auto loader magazines though. Would be great to open my options a bit.

If you are right about the mags, its kind of a hard decision which I would use for self defense anyways, it's hard to argue with the stopping power of .357 magnum, and the reliability of revolvers. But it would be a little faster slapping a mag in my 9mm though, not to mention capacity and low recoil for follow up shots.

BTW Its a full size Ruger P95. My S&W model 60 is a 3" J frame so it kicks like a mule. But I have never had a jam with my P95 and I keep it well cleaned and oiled so I would probably lean more towards it if I have a choice.

 

[Jim Watson]

Oh, yeah, a public defender.

I am 20, and can't get my CCW yet

Well, time will solve that problem, if you don't get a rap sheet trying to be a bedroll lawyer.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

Well if I get killed before then I couldn't get my CPL could I? Have you recieved death threats before or had a gun pointed at you Jim? trust me it makes you feel pretty helpless, and I believe I am at a higher risk of getting murdered then the average joe.

If I didn't care about the law then I would just conceal carry. Read my posts man, I'm trying to abide the law here. I have a clean record and I'm not a criminal, if I got arrested and the charges were dropped (which is worst case scenario providing I make sure the speed loaders are legal first) it wouldn't prevent me from getting my CPL.

 

[David E]

David I see your point but I interpret those definitions as including a loaded magazine that isn't inserted.

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action;

I would print out a copy of the above statute and highlight the pertinent parts.

Maybe contact the NRA or your State Rifle Association and see what info they can give you.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

Good idea David. I actually currently live near the NRA range, and was planning on taking one of their pistol courses soon so I will ask one of the instructors next time I'm there. Though it is not in WA they might have some insight on my situation.

After verifying that the speed loaders are legal through local court house or lawyer or another credible source I was also planning on printing out that section of the law and putting it in my glove box.

It may not save me from a cop thinking it's still illegal, but it could help.

 

[Jim Watson]

Actually Smoov, I felt threatened when younger than you and did what I thought best, as I am sure you will. But that was in the Dark Ages of the 1960s and we did not have the internet to generate a lot of second guessing. Sorry to have contributed.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

I was in my early teens when I first had a gun pointed at me. But thats not really important, I'm not trying to say I'm at more of a risk than you, I don't know you and that would be ignorant to assume.

Sorry if I came off aggressive by asking you that, I worded it wrong. As someone whose been around the block, I do value your input.

Maybe 10 months seems like longer to a young guy like me. But I do think I'm at more of a risk in this next year than I will be later in life, as the "beef" is still kind of fresh.

Out of curiosity, what did you do that you thought was best?

I try not to let the fear of dying impair my judgement or quality of life, but I also promised myself that I would never be caught off guard again.

My shooting buddy thats locked up right now carried every day, every where because of similar experiences to mine (actually worse) and now hes serving a year for gun charges. So I don't want to let my fear get me in trouble, I have learned from his mistakes. But I do protect myself when and where I can.

 

[Jim Watson]

Adjusted my schedule to minimize exposure... and carried a gun.

I got by with it and your buddy didn't.

The old line "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." applies but the results of a judgment by a court under a DA who can "indict a ham sandwich" would not be pleasant.

 

[makarovnik]

A cylinder could be called a magazine I guess but a speed loader, no. It doesn't stay in the gun (kind of like a stripper clip isn't a magazine either).