I would think a shorter barrel would have less harmonics and be easier to tune, meaning easier to find the sweet spots. I would also think they would be more forgiving on a wider variety of ammo. Granted they give up a few feet per second vs. a longer barrel, but somehow I think they would be more accurate. Any thoughts?
Are shorter barrels inherently more accurate?
- Thread starter mugsie
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splattergun
Member
I would say a shorter barrel is stiffer than a long barrel, and heavy bench barrels stiffer still. It's stiffness which dampens vibration. The length helps stabilize the bullet, which in turn helps it maintain supersonic velocity, which also is part of the accuracy equation. Hunting barrel lengths are generally a compromise between weight and length/stiffness.
I'm sure other factors will be brought up as well.
I'm sure other factors will be brought up as well.
gibble888
Member
I have done a little research and what ive found is as long as the longer barrels are thicker or bull barrels they tend to be more accurate but long sporter type barrels tend to have bad harmonics resulting in decreased accuracy. 22" sporter is better than a 26".....BUT....NOT ALL RIFLES ARE CREATED EQUAL.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
A good read:
http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html
I have two contrasting rifles: A 26" '06 and a 19" .243. After some tweaking on them, both have shot sub-MOA for some forty years. Regularly and reliably. Both have sporter-weight barrels.
When the '06 was fairly new and my eyes were a tad younger, I could get-shot groups of about 1-1/8" at 100 yards. 3/4" for five-shot groups. I've had sub-MOA at 500 yards. The last time I shot it, I got a three-shot group of 0.4" at 100 yards, which I figure is pretty good after around 4,000 rounds.
The .243 has always been about a 3/4 MOA shooter with my pet 85-grain load. 5/8 with a 70-grain. Last time out, three behind a dime. About a thousand or so rounds through it.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html
I have two contrasting rifles: A 26" '06 and a 19" .243. After some tweaking on them, both have shot sub-MOA for some forty years. Regularly and reliably. Both have sporter-weight barrels.
When the '06 was fairly new and my eyes were a tad younger, I could get-shot groups of about 1-1/8" at 100 yards. 3/4" for five-shot groups. I've had sub-MOA at 500 yards. The last time I shot it, I got a three-shot group of 0.4" at 100 yards, which I figure is pretty good after around 4,000 rounds.
The .243 has always been about a 3/4 MOA shooter with my pet 85-grain load. 5/8 with a 70-grain. Last time out, three behind a dime. About a thousand or so rounds through it.
243winxb
Member
Quality of the barrel is more importent. In 243win i have a 27 1/2" and a 18 1/2" The long one is more accurate. Benchrest shooters may have short barrels to make weight class.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
+1
Length is the lest of your worries to worry about.
rc
They contour the barrel to make weight.
http://www.hartbarrels.com/tapers.php
http://www.shilen.com/contours.html
shorter barrels are inherently more stiff.
to the extent the harmonics in a barrel cause a longer one to have ...hmm... what would be the right word? more amplitude? then that means there is an opportunity for bullets leaving the muzzle at different points in the wave to be spread farther apart because the muzzle moves farther because the longer barrel is less stiff.
SO...
if all your bullets are going exactly the same speed and leave the muzzle at exactly the same time=same point in the wave, then they should all go through the same hole. this is the theory behind the ladder testing. finding the 'nodes'.
net, longer barrels can be exceptionally accurate. shorter barrels may be slightly more forgiving of velocity variations, which, if you're shooting factory crap ammo or something with a 150 fps extreme spread, could very well look like it's less accurate.
to the extent the harmonics in a barrel cause a longer one to have ...hmm... what would be the right word? more amplitude? then that means there is an opportunity for bullets leaving the muzzle at different points in the wave to be spread farther apart because the muzzle moves farther because the longer barrel is less stiff.
SO...
if all your bullets are going exactly the same speed and leave the muzzle at exactly the same time=same point in the wave, then they should all go through the same hole. this is the theory behind the ladder testing. finding the 'nodes'.
net, longer barrels can be exceptionally accurate. shorter barrels may be slightly more forgiving of velocity variations, which, if you're shooting factory crap ammo or something with a 150 fps extreme spread, could very well look like it's less accurate.
Scroll down to the post I made on this thread.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=483711
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=483711
adelbridge
Member
Barrel whip is the term we are looking for. The barrel will vibrate like a tuning fork. I have seen hunting profile barrels shoot .5 Moa consistently and I have had bull barrels group no better than 1.5" new out of box. I have seen a lot of cruddy bull barrel rifles that are sold on fashion over function.
Quality bedding in a stiff forestock reduces barrel oscillations, making the barrel functionally "heavier". Long slender free float no good.
Ammo makes a difference also. A shorter barrel may not give a heavier bullet enough spin, thus becoming inherently less accurate with the given ammo.
Ammo makes a difference also. A shorter barrel may not give a heavier bullet enough spin, thus becoming inherently less accurate with the given ammo.
This barrel is going to out shoot this barrel 99.99% of the time. It has nothing to do with length, weight, material, etc. It has to do with quality. If one was longer and the other was shorter, either way, it wouldn't matter, the Shilen is going to shoot better.
True, for equally capable brands it would be simply a matter of which one happened to turn out a hair better. But with a load tuned for each, it would be hard to prove the accuracy difference, and to really check things you would have to have 10 or 20 of each and get averages.
Bottom line is barrel length is not anywhere near the most important factor for accuracy.
Stiffer barrels (Heavy or short) tend to be more accurate than flimsier barrels. There are some Benchrest "pistols" capable of superb accuracy.
Bottom line is barrel length is not anywhere near the most important factor for accuracy.
Stiffer barrels (Heavy or short) tend to be more accurate than flimsier barrels. There are some Benchrest "pistols" capable of superb accuracy.
exactly
I handload a lot and found that it's important to tune loads to a particular barrel/rifle combination, not give-up on a new barrel that doesn't shoot a favorite factory ammo or load. Barrel length doesn't seem to matter as much as barrel quality and solid action bedding. It can go beyond that for target rifles.
We tend to blame barrels and target shooters tend to replace them too often, instead of fixing what is really to blame. A very good gunsmith friend once tried several barrels on his own benchrest rifle and couldn't get it to shoot well. Then, he discovered that the bedding was faulty. I know, because I got one of his Lilja take-offs (cheap) and it shoots lights-out on my rifle.
We tend to blame barrels and target shooters tend to replace them too often, instead of fixing what is really to blame. A very good gunsmith friend once tried several barrels on his own benchrest rifle and couldn't get it to shoot well. Then, he discovered that the bedding was faulty. I know, because I got one of his Lilja take-offs (cheap) and it shoots lights-out on my rifle.
I was once shooting next to a very good shooter who was having a bad day. He started blaming it on his brass. I told him it wasn't the brass, but he tossed it and got some new stuff. I got his brass out of the trash and beat him the next two groups with his brass. That is when he screwed the barrel off the gun. I should have asked for the barrel. 
Hanzo581
Member
I've always thought between two barrels of different length, of equal thickness and quality, the longer would be the most accurate mainly because of the increased velocity and stabilization. I learn something new every day.
Dr T
Member
Interesting thread. I tend to like shorter barrels, but this is driven by field, not bench, considerations.
Ironically, my most accurate rifle has an ultra lightweight 18" barrel carrying iron sights (Remington Model 7, 7mm-08, fiberglass-kevlar stock). That said, it took about 10 different handloads, remounting the stock, and free floating the barrel to get it to shoot worth a darn.
Ironically, my most accurate rifle has an ultra lightweight 18" barrel carrying iron sights (Remington Model 7, 7mm-08, fiberglass-kevlar stock). That said, it took about 10 different handloads, remounting the stock, and free floating the barrel to get it to shoot worth a darn.
Dr T
Do you mean the presence of iron sights makes a difference? We are talking barrel accuracy, irrespective of the sighting system. Practical accuracy is what includes the whole setup. If so I nominate the rifle balance. A longer or heavier barrel takes more muscle energy to keep steady offhand and decreases practical accuracy, especially in longer strings of fire.
Do you mean the presence of iron sights makes a difference? We are talking barrel accuracy, irrespective of the sighting system. Practical accuracy is what includes the whole setup. If so I nominate the rifle balance. A longer or heavier barrel takes more muscle energy to keep steady offhand and decreases practical accuracy, especially in longer strings of fire.
SilentStalker
Member
Negative Ghost Rider...
...and sometimes, you need barrel length depending on your target. I shoot 308 Winchester and I need that bullet to stay supersonic out to some of the distances I shoot. A short barrel wont give me the velocity I need. I've always looked at barrel length as sort of free horsepower. So what if its a 26 inch tube? It doesn't get in my way at all. I just step back a huge 4 more inches or so and go to work.
I shoot rimfire benchrest. We use tuners on the end of the barrel to tune the harmonics. Most of the winning rifles use a 20" barrel; I have rarely seen anything shorter in the winner's circle, be it an Anschutz, Shilen, Hart, Walther Lothar or Benchmark (all of which are top-quality barrels). We use bull barrels with a very thick taper near the action (well over 1").
A longer barrel will whip at a slower speed, generally making it easier to tune.
Just my experience.
A longer barrel will whip at a slower speed, generally making it easier to tune.
Just my experience.
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