Certaindeaf
member
The most accurate rifle I've ever had was a model 600 Remington in .243. One hole at 100 yards with a 4X scope. I think I shot 70 grain Sierra's at that time.
Most inherently accurate rifle cartridge?
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Kachok
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Conditioning? Really? Grandpa introduced me to the Sweed some 30 years ago, while he praised it's penetration and terminal performance I don't recall him ever mentioning anything about accuracy, for the next 20 something years I only on VERY rare occasion heard anyone mention the 6.5x55 and never ran into another Sweed fan until I joined THR a few years back. I think my opinion of the Sweed is my own and not the result of some sort of propaganda.
Certaindeaf
member
^ Is that like Sweet's bore cleaner?
Float Pilot
Member
Correct Only in Some Aspects.
The 7x57mm is also known to be a cartridge which usually displays consistent accuracy in various rifle platforms. Mostly due to a very good bullet BC and moderate recoil. And I am also a 7mm Mauser lover,,,
However, while the 7x57mm (which is a Paul Mauser design unlike the 6.5x55mm) was built in Europe,,,,, it was mostly used in Latin America and Mexico.
Places that did not foster long range marksmanship as a national culture.
Furthermore, the rifle barrel steel quality and dimensional controls were NOWHERE NEAR WHAT THE SWEDES demanded.
Additionally most South American, Central American and Mexican users on 7x57mm Rifles and carbines had horrible maintenance procedures. Not only was the climate bad for the rifles, but the troops and repair depot goons stank as well.
Plus we must consider the ammunition source difference. While the Swedes and Norwegians went crazy with ammunition development including super tight controls on quality... The same cannot be said for 7x57mm Ammo which was made by all sorts of hooky outfits...
The only folks who used the 7x57mm cartridge and rifles like the Swedes and Norwegians were the gallant Boers of the Transvaal Republic and the Orange Free State. They believed in long range marksmanship, good ammunition and rifle quality. Unfortunately they were overwhelmed within a few years.
So while the 7mm Mauser developed a legend for itself in between 1895 to 1900 as the Spanish Hornet and the 7mm Boer.... Thus leading the US to attempt a 30 caliber copy, it does not have a 100 years of constant front line use and development with fanatical national backing.
Owning several of both chambering's, I would put the 7x57mm a close second or third behind the 6.5x55mm and maybe the 7.5 Swiss. In newly barreled military rifles and a clear second in well barreled target or sporter rifles if hand-loaded. At least in a classical sense over the last century or so..
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meanmrmustard
Member
Why would anyone sing the praises of a 100+ year old cartridge if it didn't work, and do it well?
With new cartridges popping up so often, I think 6.5 Swede is its own PR agent. I'm betting those that favor it have experience with the cartridge as well.
I don't hear much anyone get too excited over the 7x57 these days.
With new cartridges popping up so often, I think 6.5 Swede is its own PR agent. I'm betting those that favor it have experience with the cartridge as well.
I don't hear much anyone get too excited over the 7x57 these days.
Kachok
Member
Don't get me wrong the 7x57 is another fantastic classic as well, I would love to add one of those to the collection but I have not seen one in decent condition in several years, and nobody carries CZs around here. I don't think the 6.5x55 has ever had any sort of PR support or advertising like the new cartridges coming out and most certainly does not now, but it is so good that it does not need it people who have used them are all the advertising it needs to stay alive and well for the next 122 years. I still laugh that with all of today's technology we are still mimicking a cartridge made long before even the oldest of us was even born. I am sure the 6.5 Creedmore, 260 and 6.5x47 are all great but at the end of the day they do nothing the Sweed won't (except for fit in a short action with a standard bolt face) and would be very hard pressed to match the accuracy of their granddaddy.
The 7.62x54 has fought two wars with itself, and won both times.
jason41987
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interesting topic, but i dont think theres such a thing as an inherently accurate cartridge... two identicle cartridges fired from identicle rifles under identicle conditions will still vary on impact based on the rifle itself, the barrel it uses, etc... but even that aside, your most common variable in where your projectile impacts would be wind and the way to counter this is to counter the winds effect on a projectile which can be done by two ways, using a very heavy bullet where the wind wont have much effect on it (45-70s are quite accurate, though they have a rainbow-like trajectory) and then the high velocity cartridges limit their exposure by higher velocities
higher ballistic coefficiencies means a flatter, smoother trajectory which will make it easier for you personally to be accurate, and for this id have to say the most accurate cartridges in my opinion tend to be those in 6.5mm for shorter actions (.308 size and shorter) and .308/.338 projectiles in the bigger rifles that use longer bullets (most these bullets have ballistic coefficiencies of over .500
higher ballistic coefficiencies means a flatter, smoother trajectory which will make it easier for you personally to be accurate, and for this id have to say the most accurate cartridges in my opinion tend to be those in 6.5mm for shorter actions (.308 size and shorter) and .308/.338 projectiles in the bigger rifles that use longer bullets (most these bullets have ballistic coefficiencies of over .500
there are many good calibers mentioned here but I say the best is the .308 win. it is common very very easy to load for and I have not saw a decent rifle that did not shoot great with simple loads. I have stopped using match bullets in mine being it shoots cheap bullets just as good. my M1A shoots 147 FMJ into tiny groups
T.R.
Member
Experts often cite these 3 as most accurate: .223, .308, and 6.5mm Creedmore. But my older .243 slide action action rifle is a tack driver, too.
TR
TR
msjayhawk
Member
Right gun, right ammo... anything is possible. You want to shoot the same hole 10x at 100 yards. .50 BMG will do it most reliably from a Barrett EVERY TIME. Of course a 7.62/.308, 5.56/.223, 6mm, 6.5mm, .243, 25-06, .270, .284, 7mm, 30-06, 300 win or Rem... same thing on a good gun... 500m or 1000 yards, things start changing...
Kachok
Member
Here is what I have gathered about cartridges that tend to be accurate.
Most all cartridges in the 308 family are inherently accurate, hard to pick a winner out of that group because the 243, 260, 7mm-08 and 308 are all remarkably good.
The long action 06 family is not as prone to remarkable accuracy but many site the 25-06 as a phenomenally accurate round, sadly it does not have any ultra high BC bullets to compete at 1,000 yards.
The Mauser family has a couple scarey accurate offspring the 6.5x55 which even after all these years continues to amaze me and the 7x57 which was so long ranged and accurate back in the day that it really shocked the world, and still good enough to hold it's own
The WSM family is the new kid on the block, but already a force to be reckoned with, setting numerous world records both in 7mm and 30 cal form, when they came out with the 270 WSM the ballistic techs at Browning are quoted as saying that it was the most accurate cartridge they have ever worked with, I own one and I would not disagree with that statement.
Belted Mags, both the 300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag have won more then their fair share of long range shooting contests over the years, so it is hard to not give them at leased an honorable mention when talking about long range accuracy, while their records are now broken by the new wave of short mags I don't know a soul who would consider then anything less then fantastically accurate.
Another honorable mention would be the 6.5 Creedmore, the first commercial purpose built 1,000 yard match cartridge. According to the reports it is living up to the billing. Time will tell if it deserves to be in a top spot.
A quick note on inherently accurate cartridges, we assume that since they are so accurate by nature they must be really easy to develop handloads for, in my experence it is the opposite, my remarkably accurate 270 WSM and 7mm-08 took months of trial and error to get them shooting those tiny one hole groups, alot of searching for that magic combination where as my old fashion 30-06 does not shoot any one hole groups but you can pretty much pick any load out the book and it will shoot it reasonably well, so what if it seems to cap out at 1/2", the point I am trying to make is just because a cartridge did not make the A-list does not mean it cannot be a versatile and highly effective hunting cartridge.
Most all cartridges in the 308 family are inherently accurate, hard to pick a winner out of that group because the 243, 260, 7mm-08 and 308 are all remarkably good.
The long action 06 family is not as prone to remarkable accuracy but many site the 25-06 as a phenomenally accurate round, sadly it does not have any ultra high BC bullets to compete at 1,000 yards.
The Mauser family has a couple scarey accurate offspring the 6.5x55 which even after all these years continues to amaze me and the 7x57 which was so long ranged and accurate back in the day that it really shocked the world, and still good enough to hold it's own
The WSM family is the new kid on the block, but already a force to be reckoned with, setting numerous world records both in 7mm and 30 cal form, when they came out with the 270 WSM the ballistic techs at Browning are quoted as saying that it was the most accurate cartridge they have ever worked with, I own one and I would not disagree with that statement.
Belted Mags, both the 300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag have won more then their fair share of long range shooting contests over the years, so it is hard to not give them at leased an honorable mention when talking about long range accuracy, while their records are now broken by the new wave of short mags I don't know a soul who would consider then anything less then fantastically accurate.
Another honorable mention would be the 6.5 Creedmore, the first commercial purpose built 1,000 yard match cartridge. According to the reports it is living up to the billing. Time will tell if it deserves to be in a top spot.
A quick note on inherently accurate cartridges, we assume that since they are so accurate by nature they must be really easy to develop handloads for, in my experence it is the opposite, my remarkably accurate 270 WSM and 7mm-08 took months of trial and error to get them shooting those tiny one hole groups, alot of searching for that magic combination where as my old fashion 30-06 does not shoot any one hole groups but you can pretty much pick any load out the book and it will shoot it reasonably well, so what if it seems to cap out at 1/2", the point I am trying to make is just because a cartridge did not make the A-list does not mean it cannot be a versatile and highly effective hunting cartridge.
Arkansas Paul
Member
12 gauge with birdshot and a skeet choke
Years ago, Remington listed it's accuracy levels for various calibers available in the 40X rifle (as I remember). The .222 Rem was listed as the most accurate and with each increase in caliber/capacity, accuracy got worse, until the .308 Win, which was better than several cartridges of less diameter and capacity. No cartridge larger than the .308 Win shot as well.
That said, I've had two very accurate .22-250, Rem 700s; a very accurate 6mm Rem, 700 Varmint; and very accurate .30-06 and .270 Win, Rem 700s. The .22-250s were nearly unbeatable at informal Turkey Shoot matches.
However, the most accurate rifles/calibers I own now are a .223 Rem, Tikka 595, which with Hornady 50 grain SX bullets and 25 grains of Accurate 2230, is a true 1/8 minute rifle at 100 yards. My next most accurate rifle is a Tikka T3Lite in .243 Win, that consistently shoots under 1/2 MOA, but haven't really done serious load development for it.
The .22-250 is a fine cartridge, but has too much body taper, leading to excessive stretching, requiring more trimming than any other cartridge I've used. The .243 Win is my new fun hunting cartridge and I feel confident shooting deer with it at 250 yards or a little more, and high probability first-shot kills on varmints to about 350. It bucks wind much better than the .22 centerfires. I prefer 80-100 grain bullets best for most uses.
That said, I've had two very accurate .22-250, Rem 700s; a very accurate 6mm Rem, 700 Varmint; and very accurate .30-06 and .270 Win, Rem 700s. The .22-250s were nearly unbeatable at informal Turkey Shoot matches.
However, the most accurate rifles/calibers I own now are a .223 Rem, Tikka 595, which with Hornady 50 grain SX bullets and 25 grains of Accurate 2230, is a true 1/8 minute rifle at 100 yards. My next most accurate rifle is a Tikka T3Lite in .243 Win, that consistently shoots under 1/2 MOA, but haven't really done serious load development for it.
The .22-250 is a fine cartridge, but has too much body taper, leading to excessive stretching, requiring more trimming than any other cartridge I've used. The .243 Win is my new fun hunting cartridge and I feel confident shooting deer with it at 250 yards or a little more, and high probability first-shot kills on varmints to about 350. It bucks wind much better than the .22 centerfires. I prefer 80-100 grain bullets best for most uses.
The problem with this debate is that in the real world there are many factors which affect on target performance. Most Rifles built for ultimate accuracy are built to meet a set of rules or a set of target parameters. The perfect cartridge for one set of rules may be vastly different than the perfect cartridge for another set of rules.
What you see is that high quality components, for both rifle system and ammo, are the first key. From there, you pick a clambering that is most suitable for your game of choice. Paper punching requires less on target energy than steel shooting, and hunting typically requires more yet. Accuracy record tend to be broken by fast cycling, low recoiling setups. A setup that gets back on target fastest to run a given condition almost always is the rifle to set a record. It's not the rifle that always wins a match, but when you get that 30 seconds of perfect hold, you need to be able to put every round down range.
You also need to balance wind drift characteristics to the recoil the rifle presents. Short range shooters can sacrifice some wind drift for a faster cycling rifle and bullets that hold slightly better groups in calm conditions. Long range shooters tend to reduce recoil by dropping in bullet diameter while selecting some of the highest BC bullets in the class. In the last 10 years competition bullets have taken off and its much easier to find ultra high BC bullets in mid-diameter ranges. The further you shoot, the more wind drift characteristics of a bullet matter. As such, an elite 100 yards cartridge is going to be mediocre at best at 1000 yards and vice versa.
Then there are unknown distance shoots where a flat shooting cartridge is more important than absolute accuracy. You see in these shoots that the fast and flat trajectory rounds dominate. Fixed distance shooting care none about trajectory, so again, different rules dictate most effective round.
I don't think there are really any cartridges that are incapable of high accuracy in their intended use. Some are harder to reproduce consistently but I can't think of many that I've seen that shot poorly when a high quality rifle setup was used with high quality ammo components held to tight tolerances. Everything from .22lr to 50bmg has shown to shoot well when top tier components are used and the rifle is shot in its intended set of rules.
You do see some rounds have a sweet spot load that works in just about every high quality rifle. .223 and .308 both have their go to loads that produce good results in most every rifle. Federal Gold Medal Match seems to take advantage of this for both chamberings and consistently shoots sub-MOA in most rifles.
What you see is that high quality components, for both rifle system and ammo, are the first key. From there, you pick a clambering that is most suitable for your game of choice. Paper punching requires less on target energy than steel shooting, and hunting typically requires more yet. Accuracy record tend to be broken by fast cycling, low recoiling setups. A setup that gets back on target fastest to run a given condition almost always is the rifle to set a record. It's not the rifle that always wins a match, but when you get that 30 seconds of perfect hold, you need to be able to put every round down range.
You also need to balance wind drift characteristics to the recoil the rifle presents. Short range shooters can sacrifice some wind drift for a faster cycling rifle and bullets that hold slightly better groups in calm conditions. Long range shooters tend to reduce recoil by dropping in bullet diameter while selecting some of the highest BC bullets in the class. In the last 10 years competition bullets have taken off and its much easier to find ultra high BC bullets in mid-diameter ranges. The further you shoot, the more wind drift characteristics of a bullet matter. As such, an elite 100 yards cartridge is going to be mediocre at best at 1000 yards and vice versa.
Then there are unknown distance shoots where a flat shooting cartridge is more important than absolute accuracy. You see in these shoots that the fast and flat trajectory rounds dominate. Fixed distance shooting care none about trajectory, so again, different rules dictate most effective round.
I don't think there are really any cartridges that are incapable of high accuracy in their intended use. Some are harder to reproduce consistently but I can't think of many that I've seen that shot poorly when a high quality rifle setup was used with high quality ammo components held to tight tolerances. Everything from .22lr to 50bmg has shown to shoot well when top tier components are used and the rifle is shot in its intended set of rules.
You do see some rounds have a sweet spot load that works in just about every high quality rifle. .223 and .308 both have their go to loads that produce good results in most every rifle. Federal Gold Medal Match seems to take advantage of this for both chamberings and consistently shoots sub-MOA in most rifles.
From what I've seen locally, and read, the 6mm BR/PPC is hard to beat for inherit accuracy. I don't know personally but I read an article that promoted the 22-250 as a very accurate round too. In one story a guy at the range was demonstrating its accuracy by scooping powder into a case to the top then using a hand press to seat a bullet then proceeded to shoot a 1 inch group with the rounds.
Clark
Member
There is not much sense in talking about accurate cartridges.
But if you make weight, distance, and number of rounds fired part of some rules for benchrest competition, you get things like 222, 6mmPPC, and 30BR forming a family of curves depending on wind conditions.
A different set of rules could easily make 22LR the winner.
But if you make weight, distance, and number of rounds fired part of some rules for benchrest competition, you get things like 222, 6mmPPC, and 30BR forming a family of curves depending on wind conditions.
A different set of rules could easily make 22LR the winner.
msjayhawk
Member
Jon in WV... Good call. I had never looked at the 6mm BR. Looks like a really cool cartridge. You probably just upset my wife 
Certaindeaf
member
Badabingo. If you're a paper shooter at fixed/known ranges, especially 100 yards, it don't matter.. as long as you can kill that 1/1000 shots fired deer at 100 yards. Only in field shooting is flat goodness realized, but then again you could always use a good rangefinder and lob one fair.
Olympic ten meter air guns are a prime example of catering to a fixed distance.. they are very low powered.
Indeed, fixed distances and bench guns make for small groups. Look what a lowly 22lr can do at 50 yards (yes that's five shots):
I still think 6mmBR is the most accurate, at least for fixed distance shooting. Those guys consistently group in the 0.1's. If you aren't shooting at fixed distances, then obviously the flattest shooting cartridge you can get would be the best (thinking .300 win mag, or even .50BMG if you happen to have something that can fire that and not break your shoulder..).
I still think 6mmBR is the most accurate, at least for fixed distance shooting. Those guys consistently group in the 0.1's. If you aren't shooting at fixed distances, then obviously the flattest shooting cartridge you can get would be the best (thinking .300 win mag, or even .50BMG if you happen to have something that can fire that and not break your shoulder..).
Certaindeaf
member
Talking bow shooting, hitting a reed at distance is way easier than hitting a .. non-long thing.
Arrows do go kinda slow though.
Arrows do go kinda slow though.
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