Orkan
Member
You should.
It would be worth your while. I like the creedmoor more than the 260 for the cost associated as you pointed out.
Most inherently accurate rifle cartridge?
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It would be worth your while. I like the creedmoor more than the 260 for the cost associated as you pointed out.meanmrmustard
Member
Agreed.You should.
What platform do you recommend? I'd prefer bolt action, but I'm not certain of who makes one chambered for the Creedmoor.
Hopefully, this off topic stuff gets me buying a Creedmoor!
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Orkan
Member
I shoot a DTA these days.
http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/
We're a dealer for them, and we also do custom conversions. I have about 4 6.5 cal blanks in stock right now.
If you are more traditional, then we can set you up with a trued remington 700 or a clone of your choice.
If you are looking for a less expensive turn-key creedmoor setup, I'm not sure which manufacturers are carrying them.
http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/
We're a dealer for them, and we also do custom conversions. I have about 4 6.5 cal blanks in stock right now.
If you are more traditional, then we can set you up with a trued remington 700 or a clone of your choice.
If you are looking for a less expensive turn-key creedmoor setup, I'm not sure which manufacturers are carrying them.
jerkface11
Member
Savage with a custom barrel would be the least expensive way.
meanmrmustard
Member
Thank you for this info.
It is appreciated. I will be looking at getting something this summer, preferably before the MO rifle deer season. Scouting eats up a lot of my time, so I'd like to use June-August for the bench.
ZeSpectre
Member
I don't know about "inherently accurate" but two cartridges that seem to be less "fussy" than some in my actual shooting experience are .243 and 7.5x55mm Swiss.
Then again if I'm going to be honest, most rifles shoot better at distances over 100 yards than I do.
Then again if I'm going to be honest, most rifles shoot better at distances over 100 yards than I do.
Tomcat47
Member
This may be out of norm to most ... But 7 x 30 Waters comes to my mind.
Maybe not in comparison to 300 WSM or 6.8 but Waters was definately on to something in my opinion.
I have also used nosler partition and the like with fire formed brass as opposed to flat nose factory loads. I would suppose that would be no different than BR rounds.
like others stated inherent accuracy may be a loose term unless we consider sammi, wild cat, or hand loaded br exclusively.
I have always understood on a ballistic coefficient that a 6mm round has an edge.... ? but that is above my pay grade!
Maybe not in comparison to 300 WSM or 6.8 but Waters was definately on to something in my opinion.
I have also used nosler partition and the like with fire formed brass as opposed to flat nose factory loads. I would suppose that would be no different than BR rounds.
like others stated inherent accuracy may be a loose term unless we consider sammi, wild cat, or hand loaded br exclusively.
I have always understood on a ballistic coefficient that a 6mm round has an edge.... ? but that is above my pay grade!
Family Tree:
7.62x39
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V
.220 Russian
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V
.22 PPC and 6.5mm Grendel and .30 Walker
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6mm PPC
Kachok
Member
You can tweak any cartridge to be accurate but some are easier then others for some reason. 6.5x55 is the easiest I have ever used, it is literally hard to find anything it won't shoot remarkably well, my 308 is really easy as well the 150gr class though I have had alot more trouble with the heavier weights. 30-06 is easy to get acceptable accuracy with a wide variety of bullet weights but much harder to get superb accuracy with. 7mm-08 is the most temperamental of all the cartridges I load for, but I do chalk that up to a defective Browning rifle so I don't hold that against the cartridge itself. They all have their own personality after you have loaded them for a while.
Just look at what the competitive match shooters use to find what has the greatest tendency to be accurate.
6mm PPC
243 Win
6.5x55
6.5 Creedmore
260 Rem
6.5-284
7mm Rem Mag
7mm-08
7mm WSM
308 Win
300 WSM
300 Win Mag
Just to name a few.
Just look at what the competitive match shooters use to find what has the greatest tendency to be accurate.
6mm PPC
243 Win
6.5x55
6.5 Creedmore
260 Rem
6.5-284
7mm Rem Mag
7mm-08
7mm WSM
308 Win
300 WSM
300 Win Mag
Just to name a few.
Kachok
Member
BTW yall Savage, Browning, Ruger and T/C all chamber factory bolt action rifles in 6.5 Creedmore and they each chamber it in their precision heavy barrel rifle as well. DPMS makes a Creedmore AR and Ruger also puts it in their famous falling block action Ruger #1.
Float Pilot
Member
6.5x55mm
Kachok
Member
+1 if there ever were such a thing as an inherently accurate cartridge it is the Sweed, I have never seen one that was not a very impressive shooter.
meanmrmustard
Member
I'll see your +1, and raise you!
Kachok
Member
All in, I don't know exactly what makes the 6.5x55 so naturally accurate but I love it, I hope the Creedmore is just as good, I plan on getting one of those soon. My Sweed is the only rifle I own that it is a challange to find anything it does not shoot very well, only two bullets that have ever given me a seconds worth of trouble are the 140gr VLD and 120gr TTSX, the Barnes is very finiky on seating depth, but I did get it under the 1/2" range, the VLD is still elusive and I don't know exacly why, the other dozen bullets I tried all shot like magic with a variety of powders/charges/seating depth.
meanmrmustard
Member
I'm digging the 139 PPU you turned me onto.
Put a half gallon milk jug out yesterday at 350 yards.
Used the M38, dad bet me I'd take at least 3 shots to get it done. He's not "into" milsurps.
One shot, one kill. I haven't done that with irons in years. Not even with my K31.
R.W.Dale
Member
You have obviously not shot one of the "bad" howa's in this caliber.
6.5x55 is just a gasket, a set of load data and a bullet diameter. It does absolutely nothing special that two dozen other similar rounds can't do. Any "inherent accuracy" it may exhibit is mere psychology.
Wich brings up an interesting thought. How much of a factor does the placebo effect play in our accuracy perceptions?
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morcey2
Member
Hmmm..
I think that the placebo effect can influence our shooting, but in a backwards way. It can't make an inaccurate rifle seem accurate, but it can definitely make an accurate rifle seem inaccurate. If you think, for some reason, that 8x57 is worthless, but you're going to give it a try in a borrowed rifle you will probably not take as much care with sight picture, trigger pull, and other fundamentals. As a result, you get a 5" group. Nothing wrong with the rifle, but you subconsciously tainted the results.
I use that example because it happened with a friend of mine shooting my M44 spanish mauser. It's a consistent 1.5" 5 shot group gun, but he couldn't shoot less than a 5" group with it. The gun fit him fine and when I shot it, it shot great. I watched him shoot it and then watched him shoot his Browning. Very different technique although he didn't believe me until it was verified by an uninterested 3rd party.
Matt
Kachok
Member
Being a man of science I have often wounded the same thing, while any handloader knows any cartridge can be tuned to be accurate there does appear to be "sweet spots" in the ballistic scheme, and the 6.5x55 seems as sweet as any. Why do 22-250s tend to be tighter shooting then 220 Swifts? Why do 308 tend to be tighter shooting then 30-06s? Why do 7mm Rem Mags tend to shoot tighter then 280 Rems? While there are exceptions to all of these the simple fact remains that if you average them all out you see clear trends in accuracy, and while the 6.5mm bore is in general very accurate the 6.5x55 stands out even in that crowd. I have owned more rifles then I ever care to count, and shot many many more, there has to be more to the 6.5x55s then some placebo effect, you might chalk it up to higher manufacturing standards or more uniform specs but there is defiantly something else going on there I have sure shot enough to know. And to answer your question no I have never shot one of the poorly made Howa 6.5x55s but I do know about their piss poor chamber and excessively long throat, I have tried on several occasions to help Howa 6.5x55 owners develop loads.
Float Pilot
Member
I have owned one Howa rifle... It took lots of work to make it shoot acceptable groups due to the general poor quality of the rifle.
I believe the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser cartridge is seemingly accurate in most rifles due to some of the design characteristics.
It was not a Paul Mauser designed cartridge but was actually designed by a joint Swedish and Norwegian committee. That is why the case head size is different from the other Mauser designed rounds from the 1890s.
6.5x55mm Attributes
1. The long case neck affords a good solid grip of the bullet as pressure builds up... It also does not let the bullet get twanged during handling or chambering,,, so it is never crooked or bent off to the side.
2. Long over-all cartridge length with the bullet seated for a long throated chamber. So the bullet is not taking up a bunch of case / powder space.
3. A gentle case shoulder which seems just right for functioning and head-spacing. The main case walls also have something of a taper.
4. It was designed for moderate pressures. While Swedish Steel was the super steel of the 1890s, and thus in the 1890s the Swedes had a fairly hot round,,,, It is a moderate pressure round by today's standards. The slower bullet acceleration means less bullet deformity and a different type of barrel vibration.
5. Moderate Recoil. This always helps a rifleman make a shot...
6. Wonderful ballistic coefficients for the 6.5mm (.264 caliber) bullets. The ability for extended range shooting because of the great bullet BC let the Swedes experiment and improve the cartridge over a 100 years period of constant use.
7. It was always loaded with NON COROSIVE AMMO.... The military issue rifles in Sweden already had the best barrels in the world.... and they STAYED ALMOST NEW because the never used corrosive ammo. Plus they changed barrels all the time and they were fanatics about military and civilian marksmanship....
So a whole culture was growing up with some of the best and most accurate rifles ever built, and they demanded good (the best) ammo. Thus the companies and military always strived for further improvements, tighter quality control and they NEVER accepted shoddy ammo or rifles.
So the legend built on itself and the Swedes actually tried to keep up with the legend they were themselves creating.
I believe the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser cartridge is seemingly accurate in most rifles due to some of the design characteristics.
It was not a Paul Mauser designed cartridge but was actually designed by a joint Swedish and Norwegian committee. That is why the case head size is different from the other Mauser designed rounds from the 1890s.
6.5x55mm Attributes
1. The long case neck affords a good solid grip of the bullet as pressure builds up... It also does not let the bullet get twanged during handling or chambering,,, so it is never crooked or bent off to the side.
2. Long over-all cartridge length with the bullet seated for a long throated chamber. So the bullet is not taking up a bunch of case / powder space.
3. A gentle case shoulder which seems just right for functioning and head-spacing. The main case walls also have something of a taper.
4. It was designed for moderate pressures. While Swedish Steel was the super steel of the 1890s, and thus in the 1890s the Swedes had a fairly hot round,,,, It is a moderate pressure round by today's standards. The slower bullet acceleration means less bullet deformity and a different type of barrel vibration.
5. Moderate Recoil. This always helps a rifleman make a shot...
6. Wonderful ballistic coefficients for the 6.5mm (.264 caliber) bullets. The ability for extended range shooting because of the great bullet BC let the Swedes experiment and improve the cartridge over a 100 years period of constant use.
7. It was always loaded with NON COROSIVE AMMO.... The military issue rifles in Sweden already had the best barrels in the world.... and they STAYED ALMOST NEW because the never used corrosive ammo. Plus they changed barrels all the time and they were fanatics about military and civilian marksmanship....
So a whole culture was growing up with some of the best and most accurate rifles ever built, and they demanded good (the best) ammo. Thus the companies and military always strived for further improvements, tighter quality control and they NEVER accepted shoddy ammo or rifles.
So the legend built on itself and the Swedes actually tried to keep up with the legend they were themselves creating.
R.W.Dale
Member
Almost to the paragraph everything you outline can be said about 7x57mauser to. Yet why aren't we all cooco for cocoo puffs about this round?
You think some conditioning by the internet and gun media might be playing a role here?
Absolutely
You touch on it in your last paragraph, its a legend with its own self perpetrating mythology.
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