Are TiN AR15 parts necessary? (if you use one pls post a pic)

[silverlance]

Are TiN (titanium nitride) parts really necessary? I'm thinking about getting a TiN AR extractor.

Several smiths I know argue (and I agree with them) that:

1. TiN causes excessive receiver wear
2. TiN is far too reflective to be of military use.
3. TiN is a total waste of money and a gimmick
4. TiN parts can easy chip if not perfectly made, resulting in catastrop malfunctions (such as when a chipped FP pierces a primer)

Are they right?

ps: If you have a TiN extractor, can you please post a close up pic so I can see what it looks like? Folks around here are selling them for about $50 a piece

 

[chrisslamar]

IMO, shoulds like pure marketing hype and preformance that you are not going to see. I mean if you had one you could say that it cost more, weighs less, and last long... and then we could get into an argument that you're infuring that my extractor is a cheap, fat, lousy hooker. But I digress, yea the rage of making guns out of unconventional metals but does it serve a real purpose? but to really answer your question the gunsmiths i've talked to each tell me its worthless and as long you keep and maintain your bolt and all that's in there you will be happier off.
Hope my rant helped you, or at least gave you a chuckle.

--Chris

 

[24kshooter]

If you have go the money buy them - whens the last time you carried you AR into battle and was concerned about reflection - not sure why you would want to replace perfectly good parts with others but hey -- ps buy a digital camera and take your own pictures.

 

[Rembrandt]

Rifle came with a TiN (titanium nitride) bolt.....wasn't sure if I liked it at first, kinda grows on you.

 

[wilson]

Well atleast it matches the ring on your scope.

 

[PercyShelley]

TiN is hard, stiff, corrosion-resistant and has a high coefficient of friction.

But for that last part, it would make an excellent coating for all sorts of things in guns.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

If it aint broke, why fix it?

 

[GTSteve03]

How is this any better than hard chrome? Seriously, I have no clue, just curious.

 

[Onmilo]

I like the look of the TiN bolt.
I agree with the other gunsmith opinion it is more gimmick than useful on a firearm.
I can tell you from machining experience with TiN coated indexable inserts that when the coating wears through the metal underneath may fail dramatically if it isn't hardened properly.

 

[taliv]

1. TiN causes excessive receiver wear
2. TiN is far too reflective to be of military use.
3. TiN is a total waste of money and a gimmick
4. TiN parts can easy chip if not perfectly made, resulting in catastrop malfunctions (such as when a chipped FP pierces a primer)

I have been using a TiN carrier for several months now.
1. not so far. i'd say that's BS because a regular carrier is steel vs aluminum. would TiN really wear aluminum more than steel?
2. total BS. it's not that reflective, and if it's bothering you that much, close the ejection port door.
3. I would say TiN isn't generally worth the premium over regular parts for most people. however, it does have its advantages and is not a total waste of money.
4. Total BS. there have been reports of some coatings like hard chrome chipping when done poorly (doesn't have to be perfect), but I haven't heard anyone say TiN has. that doesn't mean it can't, but the part about catastrophic failure is BS too. When you say "catastrophic" around here, that means the gun goes kaboom, possibly injuring you or others. How could a TiN chip cause this? or even a pierced primer, which isn't a catastrophic failure? granted, if you do get a chip, it could land in your trigger, or get caught somewhere and cause the carrier or bolt to jam, and be incredibly annoying to fix. but i don't see how you could get a catastrophic failure from it.

it sounds to me like these smiths are blowhards.

i wouldn't recommend getting just an extractor done. in my experience, the primary reason to get TiN is to make the carrier group SUPER easy to clean. I can shoot all day and then clean it with a single dry paper towel. gook just wipes off of it.

i didn't get mine for the looks, because after a few dozen rounds, it's black again anyway

 

[Gifted]

Are these just coated, or made through and through? Last I knew TiN was used as a lubricative coating on drill bits and stuff.

 

[kcmarine]

If it isn't broken, don't fix it. I mean, look. The MILITARY uses the standard stuff. Just go with chrome.

 

[taliv]

gifted, they're just coated.

kcmarine, read zak's post in this thread http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3434445&postcount=22

Again with respect, this is chock full of logical fallacies. For example, the first statement contains the fallacy that "The US Military always uses the best equipment." Clearly that is not true. Large institutions make choices for historical, political, and economic reasons, not simply because something is the "best" -- just like USSR said.

By that logic, if a new "Even Bester Best" cartridge were invented, it could not be "the best" until the US Military adopted it. That just makes no sense. There could never be progress under that type of rationale.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

4. TiN parts can easy chip if not perfectly made, resulting in catastrop malfunctions (such as when a chipped FP pierces a primer)

I think you are confusing a Titanium Nitride (TiN) coating with titanium firing pins. TiN is just a coating applied to normal parts and as far as I know doesn't do anything beyond give them that gold plated look.

Titanium firing pins are made entirely out of titanium on the premise that the lighter firing pin will have a slightly faster lock time and be less likely to slam fire. However, there are reports that the titanium firing pins are more brittle and more likely to fracture to a sharp tip, leading to pierced primers. I haven't seen that personally myself; but have seen light primer strikes/failures to fire due to titanium firing pins. I can't say how many microseconds of lock time a titanium firing pin shaves off; but I've yet to meet anyone who shoots well enough to show me the difference on a target.

 

[kcmarine]

Yeah. AND?

Sure, they don't always use the best. But I doubt that this stuff offers any advantage over chrome bolt carriers that is significant enough to justify the cost. And when was the last time you ever heard of a chrome carrier being the cause of a malfunction in an AR-15? Seems to be a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Reginhild]

Titanium Nitride coatings are used in industrial applications for two purposes:

1. The "coating" creates a more wear resistant surface that allows machine parts to last longer before replacement.

2. The "coating" has a lower coefficient of friction reducing heat and fouling resulting in increased performance.

I say "coating" because with steel it is not really a coating but is actually bonded at the atomic level with the surface layer of the metal.

On an AR bolt carrier application you may find it slightly easier to clean and you may have a slightly reduced need for lubricants.

You can also have coatings done in black, blue, and other colors. There are companies out there that do these coatings for manufacturing and machining components. There are actually some options that are even better than Titanium Nitride.

 

[PercyShelley]

Lower coefficient of friction you say? I saw .9 vs. itself quoted. Can it be smoothed down to lower than that?

If so, I would love to see a barrel lined with the stuff; it might be quite nifty. I know it makes wonderful drill bits.

Incidentally, would it be possible to coat the working parts of a gun with UHMWPE? That would be... well... slick.

 

[silverlance]

hehe
the man with the golden ar

i personally think that golden color is ugly as heck. my guns go BANG, not *BLING!*

 

[G95]

not necessary but i would think it would do everything chrome does just better?

Rembrandt who makes that upper receiver? or is it just a rail?

 

[Rembrandt]

.....Rembrandt who makes that upper receiver? or is it just a rail?

Rail is a RRA Scout rail.... http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-d...ge=rrscout.gif&CFID=37877404&CFTOKEN=41231845

Rifle is the DPMS Panther Bull 24 Special, comes with the titanium coated bolt....can purchased individually, about $185
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=326&cat=1683

....i personally think that golden color is ugly as heck. my guns go BANG, not *BLING!*

Mine goes Bling and *Bang*.....sorry you only got half the package.

 

[Onmilo]

Cobalt is one of the newer coatings and it can be had in blue or black.

I suppose somebody is going to start marketing parts coated with this stuff and the neatest and best surface treatment for gun parts eventually.

Blowhard gunsmiths may be full of B.S in one posters opinion but in my opinion "Caveat Emptor!"

 

[silverlance]

indeed. didn't mean to dis your gun rembrandt. just a personal opinion. to be sure, i wouldn't mind having a cz52 all covered in TiN.

i'm trying right now to buy a TiN extractor to see if i can torture test it. ive got the other two types already (chrome and milspec). i plan to put 500 through each, then see if there's any wear on bcg or receiver for each.

can't find anyone selling them though.

 

[Owen]

500 rounds does not a torture test make...

I'd be shocked if 500 rounds would be enough to show any difference at all. Heck, I bet an unhardened extractor would go for that long easy.

 

[G95]

im no coating / plating expert, but considering gun parts are rarely hardened very hard, like above 50HRC i cant imagine that a .001" or less coating would help much other than making cleaning a little easier

 

[Reginhild]

Lower coefficient of friction you say? I saw .9 vs. itself quoted. Can it be smoothed down to lower than that?

If so, I would love to see a barrel lined with the stuff; it might be quite nifty. I know it makes wonderful drill bits.

Incidentally, would it be possible to coat the working parts of a gun with UHMWPE? That would be... well... slick.

The inside of a barrel is next to impossible to do - due to the process. It is difficult to get TiN and other similar coatings past small openings to interior surfaces much less a long barrel.