Are we ready for mold companies to update?

[AJC1]

It seems to me that companies that sell molds are about as out of date as the cast manual writers. Gas checked pistol bullets are about as outdated as belted magnums. Are we just stuck with molds that create the need for the added expense of a gas check forever or left buying cowboy style to shoot at full power. For pistol rounds super mags, 454, 460, and 500sw excluded the need for a gas check is gone!!!!

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I don't know if I agree with 100% of what you said. I have shot coated bullets that were bevel based bullets and the riflings cut through the coating in my barrels and I had to clean lead out of my barrel afterwards.
I think the core bullet was to soft and it was trying to strip in the riflings from me driving it to fast for all the harder it was. The mfg said I couldn't hurt the coating with any temp from my loads, they didn't say that I couldn't drive them so fast that they would try to strip the riflings in my barrel at the normal magnum speed that a .357 magnum is rated for because their lead they used was to soft.
Until all the bullet companies get on the same page as to how hard the lead bullet has to be to make it work with the coating they use at full throttle loads, so there is no chance of leading, the need for gas checks will always be around.

I can tell you we are not there quite yet. Two different bullet suppliers I use are guilty of this.

 

[reddog81]

I buy most my molds from NOE. They usually have the option of plain base or gas check. Sometime you can get a mold that has both.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It seems to me that companies that sell molds are about as out of date as the cast manual writers. Gas checked pistol bullets are about as outdated as belted magnums. Are we just stuck with molds that create the need for the added expense of a gas check forever or left buying cowboy style to shoot at full power. For pistol rounds super mags, 454, 460, and 500sw excluded the need for a gas check is gone!!!!

I disagree. Gas checks have their place. So do grooveless designs. So does Carnauba wax and Linotype and Alloy #2 and... Do some mold makers need to update? Maybe - and some are! Have you looked at LBT molds? I use some of the 18-21BHN LBT hard waxed and gas checked heavy .357 bullets made by Cast Performance and there's nothing to equal them (IMHO) for whitetails or pigs out to 50yds. Can you honestly say the #358429 Keith bullet is obsolete? To whom and for what?

 

[AJC1]

I buy most my molds from NOE. They usually have the option of plain base or gas check. Sometime you can get a mold that has both.

Noe is on the game better than any other I've seen. Rcbs, lee, and redding are lagging.

 

[AJC1]

I disagree. Gas checks have their place. So do grooveless designs. So does Carnauba wax and Linotype and Alloy #2 and... Do some mold makers need to update? Maybe - and some are! Have you looked at LBT molds? I use some of the 18-21BHN LBT hard waxed and gas checked heavy .357 bullets made by Cast Performance and there's nothing to equal them (IMHO) for whitetails or pigs out to 50yds. Can you honestly say the #358429 Keith bullet is obsolete? To whom and for what?

From a casting point of view yes gas checks are dead. From a commercial standpoint they should be dead and if their product is failing, that needs some serious looking into. From a mold manufacturer, the shift for old companies should be easy as they have the plane base design in inventory. My supposition is not profound and is mirrored in the ingot to bullet book.

 

[BBarn]

Though I own several moulds, I don't pretend to know much about the market demands of bullet moulds. I do know that sources of low cost lead are harder to find these days. As a result, I buy most of my handgun bullets now instead of casting them.

 

[mdi]

I cannot say any of my molds, from my really old Lyman 429421 and Lyman 429244 to my latest Lee 358-125-RF needs any "improvement". I also have a Lyman 452374 still works quite well for my 3, 45 ACP guns, and also use a H&G 68 clone for 2 of my 45s. I haven't any need for a "new and improved" bullet design and the molds I have still cast excellent bullets, regardless of design. For my 44 Magnums, there's not a much better bullet than a 240-250 gr, SWC (a really old design), other than Ranch Dog's 240 and 295 gr RNFP bullets (works quite well in all 5 of my 44 Magnums).

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

From a casting point of view yes gas checks are dead. From a commercial standpoint they should be dead and if their product is failing, that needs some serious looking into. From a mold manufacturer, the shift for old companies should be easy as they have the plane base design in inventory. My supposition is not profound and is mirrored in the ingot to bullet book.

Then stop buying molds with gas checks built in. Trying to force an industry to change for personal preferences takes a lot more than forum posts or blogs articles. I cannot recommend more highly that you start your own line of molds designed to your liking and in keeping with the ingot to bullet book's latest musings. In these market conditions, you'll be filthy rich in a year. Just plain filthy in a month. Seriously! BE an entrepreneur.

 

[dannyd]

Gas checks may be dead, but I still like making them.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Gas checks may be dead, but I still like making them.

View attachment 1055467

Gas checks and .45ACP. Both dead.

 

[mdi]

Shhh! Don't let my RIA 1911, Ruger P 90 or HP carbine know they're dead! I'm fortunate that my 3, 45 ACPs are accurate and function quite well and the cartridge has an excellent reputation as an all around round...

When/what was the last cast bullet "new and improved" design?

 

[Show Me]

Oh my, if they stop selling they stop making. So the volume that's sold speaks for the costumers. So anyone that dosent like what they sell must me the minority. The way I see it.

 

[Caplock]

I'm not understanding why gas checks would be dead.
If you like making gas checks so much I'll take a couple thousand for .431 bullets purdy please.
Last time I looked gas checks cost as much as 22lr. Glad I only have one or two bullets for my 44 mag that use them.

 

[.38 Special]

Is the point that powder coat makes gas checks obsolete? I use a classic checked design in the .357 Magnum with perfect results, and I have utterly no desire to "simplify" by going to all the trouble of powder coating.

 

[Bazoo]

I use plenty of gas checked bullets in my 44 special. It leads a little, gas checked bullets are the easy fix. I could PC, but I like the ease and quickness of lubed bullets. I like the tradition of lubes bullets.

PC would be cheaper, but not easier or faster. Least not for me.

I never disregard a bullet design because it's a gc bullet even for a gun that doesn't need it for leading control or velocity/pressure. It also allows the use of a softer alloy for the application, just like PC does.

Accurate moulds seem to be on top of today's needs. You can get a bullet with or without a GC.

Gas checks are about $30/1000 from sage. Maybe in 1996 you could get 22lr for that.

 

[AJC1]

I'm not understanding why gas checks would be dead.
If you like making gas checks so much I'll take a couple thousand for .431 bullets purdy please.
Last time I looked gas checks cost as much as 22lr. Glad I only have one or two bullets for my 44 mag that use them.

They are no longer necessary with current coating technology. They are an added expense with no added benefit. I'll be happy to buy the 22 with money saved.

 

[AJC1]

Is the point that powder coat makes gas checks obsolete? I use a classic checked design in the .357 Magnum with perfect results, and I have utterly no desire to "simplify" by going to all the trouble of powder coating.

But you probably have the molds you need and are no.longer in the market. The new kids are not buying lubrisizers. Its not about you changing it's about evolving to follow the current trends. A gas check doubles my bullet cost.

 

[AJC1]

I use plenty of gas checked bullets in my 44 special. It leads a little, gas checked bullets are the easy fix. I could PC, but I like the ease and quickness of lubed bullets. I like the tradition of lubes bullets.

PC would be cheaper, but not easier or faster. Least not for me.

I never disregard a bullet design because it's a gc bullet even for a gun that doesn't need it for leading control or velocity/pressure. It also allows the use of a softer alloy for the application, just like PC does.

Accurate moulds seem to be on top of today's needs. You can get a bullet with or without a GC.

Gas checks are about $30/1000 from sage. Maybe in 1996 you could get 22lr for that.

Shipped to my door I'm paying 4-6 cents each. That almost pushes my cast cost to rmr jacketed price.

 

[Swampman]

I've got over a dozen pistol molds ranging from .311" to .453". Makers run the gamut from RCBS to Lyman, Lee and a bunch of MP's.

Only one of 'em is a gas check design, a Lee .430", 310 grain WFN and I can't shoot my M29-2 well enough to tell the difference between checked and unchecked (it's not a spectacularly accurate bullet either way ).

Are we just stuck with molds that create the need for the added expense of a gas check forever or left buying cowboy style to shoot at full power.

Looks like about 45 different Lee pistol molds and only six are gas checked. Until you get up to the real heavyweights in .430" and over, they offer non checked versions of their GC molds.


If you don't like gas checks, don't buy GC molds.

 

[Bazoo]

I order GCs 3-4k at a time normally to cut down shipping cost.

I'm only 38, and only been loading and casting a decade. I'm still looking for new moulds that suit me. I'm not an old timer set in my ways. Just because PC has benefits doesn't mean it's killing traditional lube for newer people. They are both viable, and gas checks are a great addition to ones toolbox, just like PC.

Folks mention the cost of a lubesizer... I got mine used for $75 shipped. You have to have a sizing die with either PC or lubesizer. So that's maybe $20 each. Then with a lubesizer you need top punches. I got 15-20. Here and there with other stuff or in lots, breaking up the cost. But cost isn't the only factor.

Time is a factor. As is ease. There is a learning curve to everything. But the learning curve to get from a raw bullet to loadable bullet with a lubesizer is pretty minimal.

How many threads have we all seen about someone's PC not working right, but when's the last time you seen someone not able to figure out their lubesizer?

 

[reddog81]

I have a couple molds that use gas checks. IMO they are still useful for some of the higher pressure / higher velocity cartridges. I use them for .30-06, 450 Bushamster, supersonic .300 Blackout, hot .357 loads. Powder coating is great for anything in the 800 to 1200 FPS range. Once I start getting into the 1500 FPS range I've had better luck finding acceptable accuracy with using the gas checks. The biggest downside is that they double the price of a bullet. I'm glad I stocked up when they were in the $.03 range.

 

[Walkalong]

I think the core bullet was to soft and it was trying to strip in the riflings from me driving it to fast for all the harder it was. The mfg said I couldn't hurt the coating with any temp from my loads, they didn't say that I couldn't drive them so fast that they would try to strip the riflings in my barrel at the normal magnum speed that a .357 magnum is rated for because their lead they used was to soft.

Yep, coating or not, the bullet has to be strong enough to hold the rifling, same as un-coated lead, the coating can't help there.

 

[dannyd]

Gas Checked bullets are so cute.

 

[.38 Special]

They are no longer necessary with current coating technology. They are an added expense with no added benefit. I'll be happy to buy the 22 with money saved.

Powder coating is not necessary with antique gas check technology. It's an added waste of time with no added benefit.