Are you at all willing to give Zumbo a second chance?

[Mongo the Mutterer]

taurusowner, I heard a saying once that I have found to be true over the test of time:

"People change their mind only from two things, religious conversion or brain surgery."

 

[1911Tuner]

More

He may be able to do a little damage control with an article that starts out with:

"Well...I got so much grief from the semi-auto military lookalike owners that I thougt it only fair to give'em a whirl and see what all the fuss is about."

Then somebody should deliver unto his hands a match-tuned AR-15 or M1A...with a good fixed-power scope...and let him see what they're capable of in the game field...and write about it.

It won't make up for the terrorist comment...but it'll give his readers a new perspective on the systems.

 

[#shooter]

Only if he starts a new hunting show called “AK Whitetail Country Sponsored by Saiga Arms” or “Prariedog’n Sponsored by Bushmaster.”

The bottom line is that he has shown himself to be an elitist willing to sacrifice the shooting sports in order to preserve his hunting sport from the antis. This was the heart of his blog posting. He went so far that he actually recommended a ban, granted a limited one, but a ban none the less. He insulted AR owners, the military, and police forces when he referred to these weapons as terrorist weapons. He claimed to be a traditionalist, yet he hunts with a modern scoped centerfire rather than a Brown Bess or longbow. To top it off he gave a weak apology that didn’t address the specifics of what he said but that he regretted opening his mouth and that he should have kept his beliefs under his cowboy hat so that none is the wiser.

How do you come back from being and elitist hypocritical backstabbing deceiver? I don’t know. He will have to do some soul searching I imagine. My guess is that no one will trust him until he becomes honest with himself about how he feels, owns up to it, and then acts on it. It is too bad Zumbo felt this way because he has done great things for hunters and hunting over the years. On the other hand with friends like him who needs enemies?

 

[Striker]

Hmm...an interesting and very thought provoking question. Didn't vote yet.

On a purely visceral level my answer is a resounding No! I was (with no regrets) one of the hoard who went after his head.

But on a logical level, I now say maybe...depends on him. May be a poor analogy/example, but I look back on the stories, (many of which appear on THR) of the turnaround of many antis'. Most are pro to some extent, some rabidly so. It usually took some ephiny to occur, but hey I'll take them as they come.

I do not condone nor defend Jim Zumbo in any way other then to support his right to his opinions. I'm insulted by his words and characterizations and by his abuse of the "bully pulpit" that his profession and access provided. His actions have brought severe personal consequences, as was deserved (Kudo's to OL, Remington, Gander, and all the rest who yanked there sponsorship).

However, I will keep an open mind for a bit to see how and what he does.

 

[poor_richard]

I've no desire to read everything on the web about this. It's gotten to the point where a lot of the stuff being posted is misinformation (often times due to lack of being up-to-date). The last I know from him was the disingenuous apology he posted on his blog before it got removed, and I found that just as insulting as his initial posting.


Here’s what would convince me that he deserves another chance:

1. Recant what he said about “terrorist rifles”.

2. Recall his call for a ban on them (as well as his call for a “divorce”), and go further by stating that there shouldn’t be a ban or restriction on any guns as such are unconstitutional, and start calling for all gun owners to resist any restrictions, regulation, or other type of infringements upon any type of “arms” (BTW: for those of you not in the know, that means “instruments used as weapons”. That includes guns, knives, hammers, etc… I know it isn’t PC or popular, but that’s what the law says, and that’s what it should say).

3. Start campaigning for elimination of gun control in any form whenever he has the “public eye” (meaning any show, article, or as editor, etc…). He needs to undo the damage he has caused.

If he had done the above in his posted “apology” and on GunTalk then I think a lot more people would have accepted his apology. His closing comment about him being “our friend” after villanizing us and calling for a striping of our civil liberties was Orwellian. Friends don’t do that, but George Orwell’s “big brother” would.

IMHO it didn’t sound like he was sorry for what he said, just that he was sorry that it caused such”uproar”. He sounded as if he still believes what he said (this at least shows conviction) and felt it was justified. His idea to go on a hunt with Ted Nugent sounded like he is trying to “pull a John Kerry”.

I also think that if he started campaigning for the reinstitution of the Second Amendment, and started campaigning and fighting for the resistance of current, as well as further UnConstitutional arms infringements, then it would provide a new medium for him as well as give him new opportunities. However, based on his so-called “apology” and his original statement, I don’t have much confidence that his heart would be in it. However I do hope he comes around.

It would be great if he became a new champion of our rights. It could (possibly) serve to undo some of damage that he has done, and turn things around. He could become a “bridge” connecting shooters of all, instead of trying to divide our ranks as he so recently did.

 

[Bob R]

If, and that is a big if, Zumbo could become a zealot about the 2nd Amendment, then he may be welcomed back by some. I would not welcome him, but could tolerate him, and I sure wouldn't quit looking over his shoulder. He has already betrayed all gun owners, can you really trust him not to do it again?

I compare it to owning a dog that bit your small child. Are you going to trust the dog not to bite your child again, or are you going to write off the dog?

I know what I would do with the dog, and I am sure a lot of people here feel the same way. About the dog and Jim Zumbo.

bob

 

[ryoushi]

I used to think the way Zumbo did/does. I never supported a ban or called them terrorist weapons. But I thought 10rd mags were a decent compromise and full auto stuff, SILENCERS? No way.

So what changed? Education and exposure. But I did it all on my own time and my own dimes. Jim Zumbo is a fellow hunter and shooter, a clueless, elitist hunter and shooter no dobt but still...

I think The High Road is to listen to what he has to say for now and perhaps give him a second chance. It might me kind of fun to watch his fat ass demonstrating the utility of a silencer for rural backyard plinking. Taking a good ribbing from our brave and noble AR toting [strike]terrorists[/strike] troops and spending some range time with them. Give him the opportunity and see if he'll do it for free.

 

[BobMcG]

The question was wonder how you would react if he really did change his mind

As far as I'm concerned I can equate this guy to likes of people who, lets say, hate or claim to hate all Indians (red skins), Jews, Blacks, Gays, Asians etc. (fill in the rest) and then get called on their prejudices and end up with their butt in a sling over it. Do you really believe that just because they start to back peddle their way out of it it's because "they've seen the light" and are changed forever? Yeah, right. He's a bigot against military styled weapons and anyone using one in the woods in his opinion is not much more than a terrorist. IMO you don't just (honestly) change your mindset about something like that over night. It would take years of work on his part for me to even entertain the likes of him again if ever.

 

[meef]

Fact of the matter for me is - I have every bit as much interest in Zumbo salvaging his career as he does in me shooting/carrying my terrorist rifles in "his" woods and praries.

Elitist, bigoted gun snob.

And that lame, insulting apology after getting busted.....

"Uhhh, yeah. Honest, I really have nothing against black rifle owning people. I even have friends who are black rifle owning people."

"I just wouldn't want my daughter to marry one, that's all."


Bah!

 

[obxned]

DAY 1: Zumbo has no respect for, nor understanding of, Second Amendment. He states this in writing for all the world to see.

DAY 2: Zumbo finds that his views are going to cost him future income.

DAY 3: Zumbo is now a ‘born again’ supported of the Second Amendment.

If he had stuck by his beliefs, no matter how wrong, I would have had more respect for the man.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

I have no doubt that Zumbo is truly sorry for all the trouble that his statements caused (him!). I do not believe that he truly does not believe what he wrote in the first place.
He stated his position (he has that right), now he must live with the consequences of what he believes. That is how it is done in a fair, just, and free society.
However, all of us at some time or another had talked out the wrong side of our a .
So, he needs to accept what has happened, and work to change minds by his actions if he no longer believes what he wrote (as that too is how it is done in a fair, just, and free society).

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Redemption

It's out there.

He'll have to work at it.

If he makes it, there will be a moment when his grief at the realization of the harm he's done will overwhelm him. For some, the revelation is more than they can bear.

The man who lives through that will be worth knowing.

If that point of contrition never comes for him, then he gets to live with his personal purgatory.

Meanwhile, we've got work to do.

 

[gego]

When the enemy shoots at you it is expected, and if he surrenders it is customary to capture him instead of kill him. If one of your own men is a traitor, then you shoot him.

I think this guy is more offensive than the normal anti crowd, because he was posing as one of us, effectively being in the traitor class.

Clearly he does not understand or believe in the principle of freedom as embodied in the Second Amendment, so I say give him a blindfold and a final smoke.

 

[taliv]

>I'm still not convinced that he was sincere in his apologies.<
***********

Exactly.

I don't think sincerity was his problem, actually. his apology CLEARLY indicated that at the time, he still had no idea what we were actually pissed about. I imagine by now, he understands, but when he wrote that, I very much doubt he truely understood what he'd said.

I think he sincerely apologized for what he thought he'd done, which was of course, not even in the ballpark of what we were really incensed about.


in any event, I'll forgive anyone. I'd expect to be forgiven too.

 

[simpleguy]

Can't you teach an old dog new tricks?

Why can't we rally against the mainstream media the bravado and engery we have spent on Jim Zumbo? Truthfully I felt the same way about "black rifles" when I first got into shooting....now I can't wait to get one. Has anyone heard his apology? I was listening to GunTalk on Sunday and he had already planned a hunt with an AR15 with Ted Nugent. I don't know the guy, but I do know that proponents of the shooting sports can/should be given the opportunity to redeem themselves. He has a big audience and maybe his shows bring people into the sport and then on to "black rifles". I would have felt the same way if I hadn't heard him speak myself.

 

[Mikee Loxxer]

The reason he wrote what he did was not because he was tired. He said it because he thought it. He then realized that his remarks endangered his livelihood and decided to backpedal thinking we would be gulllible enough to buy his lame apology. His sentiment is going to be used against us at a crucial moment in the struggle for the RKBA.

 

[goColt]

He called you and me terrorists!!!

From what I remember of the article, he said AR's, SKS's, AK's and other semi-auto rifles like them are "terrorist" rifles. I have several of these types of rifles, so according to him I am a terrorist. Basically he believes I am no different from bin Laden and other terrorists and that I "...terrorize the world with them..."

I cannot excuse or rationalize this.

He and others like him are pushing a wedge between hunters and non-hunting shooters. We cannot allow anyone to divide the gun community. I have hunted in my youth but haven't done so in many years but I still support hunter's rights and I would expect them to do the same for me.

This kind of garbage needs to be exposed and those who share these views need to be rooted out and "punished" so that we are not divided against ourselves when we go up against those that want to take away guns from EVERYONE. Make no mistake, that is the ultimate goal.

Remain vigilant!!!!

 

[ZeSpectre]

You know what, the man called for a ban on a firearm.
He wasn't satisfied with an opinion such as "I really don't like it when people hunt with those firearms", no he flat out stated that he was for making those firearms illegal.

Cut through the attempted-justification spew about terrorist weapons and such and you find the real point is an attitude of "mine is the only -real- way to hunt and that's how I think everyone should be required to do it". This is an anti mindset and exactly the sort of thing the bill of rights is about.

I have to agree with others who say he showed his true colors in that blog.

Well that dog ain't gonna hunt here!

 

[SuperNaut]

He would have to do something that equally made up for his damaging statements in order for me to forgive him. I can't tell you exactly what that would be, but I'd know it if I saw it. An apology is only the start, you have to make amends.

This is actually an opportunity for Zumbo, although I'm sure he isn't seeing it that way now. It is the hard times that define us, this is his chance to show his mettle.

 

[rustymaggot]

as long as he is trying to salvage his career, no. if he dedicated the rest of his public life to repairing the damage he did then he might be able to redeem himself.

he was not just some random guy, he was a public figure known all across the country. his voice held power.

with great power comes greater responsibility. hes done great damage to our community. his mouth had a accidental discharge. not only does he have to learn the 4 rules for his mouth, but he needs to repair the damage he did and then some before he should be let back into the shooting community.

 

[taliv]

guys, there's no question what he did was wrong. duh.

The questions are:

can he change?

and more importantly, given that we can't change the past, from this point on, what is the best thing we can do to help our cause?


the answer to the first is "it's possible. we'll have to wait and see."

the answer to the second is that he's already be ostracized. he's lost all his sponsors and his job. we've accomplished all we can with regards to zumbo. FURTHER CASTIGATION IS MAKING US LOOK BAD. it's not helping, it's hurting.

we need to start redirecting anger to the 20.07 project and politicians. carrying on about how you'll never forgive zumbo accomplishes nothing at all.

 

[Deavis]

That man has no excuse for his ignorant statements. When one is classified as an expert, they should act and write like one. He engaged his pen before his brain, which means that he said exactly how he really feels and we didn't get his CYA filtered version. He wrote something that was not only untrue but full of prejudice for his fellow gun owners that tolerate his choice in arms. I'm happy to see he is paying for his ignorance, this is a lesson he, unlike many politicians and "stars", will never forget.

 

[hso]

If Jim Zumbo "truely GETS IT" and understands that his and all our activities involving firearms are threatened and will dedicate himself to fighting on behalf of all firearms enthusiasts instead of throwing his brothers to the wolves to save his own sorry hide then perhaps, just perhaps, he can make a valuable contribution.

 

[LBTRS]

So you're willing to throw away 50 years of his work for sportsman, shooters and wildlife over one misstep? He screwed up and because he was a public figure for sportsman and shooters and should have known better. Regardless, he paid the price and now should be given the opportunity to redeem himself if in fact he has educated himself and changed his feelings and understanding of the issue.

Mr. Zumbo would be much more valuable to have on our side than as an ostracized outsider.

I don't think we're any better than the anti-gun crowd we are battling if we are so closed minded that we can't accept an apology and stand behind someone that wants to support us. Especially someone that has spent his life as an ambassador for the shooting sports.

Should he have paid a price? Of course! Should he be allowed to re-educate himself on the issue and return to his work as an ambassador of our cause? Hell yes!

I hope he does the right thing and even more I hope we do the right thing.

 

[Cato the Younger]

I think he deserves a second chance

I believe that we should give Zumbo a second chance. He should get, as some have suggested, a second chance to go out in the game fields with some of these so-called "terrorist rifles" and see what they are capable of- our goal should be conversion to the cause of RKBA absolutism, rather than casting him out from our presence- he could be a powerful advocate if converted to our cause- I do believe that everyone deserves a second chance- speaking of the Zumbogate debacle- one of his sponsors was Remington- do they release all their LE marked products to the general public, or are they like Colt, and stuff must be acquired thru the gray market- if they are not releasing everything to the public- then we need to put pressure on them to end those marketing practices. I am just saying that, while we are all united in anger, we should try to bring about more change.