Are You In The Historically-Accurate Camp Or Modern Practical?

[ojh]

Anything that complies with MLAIC rules is traditional enough for me.

 

[CraigC]

Personally, I don't think we should be limited to strictly historically correct replicas either. I've been thinking that one of those Pietta 1851 .44 "Marshall" models would be really cool converted to .45Colt (would prefer .44Colt) with ejector and antique nickeled.

...an outfit like Cabela's that markets things like the brass-framed Colt replicas and passes them off as if they were historically accurate.

I don't really see them doing that. Not much in the replica world is 100% historically accurate anyway. I know I don't want to buy a new sixgun with a wrought iron frame. Materials have changed, some of the designs beefed up, screws are all metric. The finishes are all wrong. I wouldn't hold .44cal or brass framed 1851's against them any more than I would hot salt bluing and fake case colors.

The modern .44 Colt may not be accurate compared to the original, but to me, even .44 Special would be better than .45 Colt. At least it is .44 caliber. That much is accurate.

I agree! I think the .45's are done more to appease the CAS crowd which seems to prefer the .45Colt over all others but the .38Spl. I have no problem with the cartridge, I just don't like seeing it where it doesn't belong for convenience sake. Like 1860/1866/1873/1892 and Burgess rifles. It just ain't right. Like I said, I'm weird like that.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I'm with ojh. MLAIC-compliant is OK for me.

 

[jgh4445]

I'm in the historically correct camp.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I wouldn't mind 44 cal conversions but I dont know who makes any, don't know anyone making hollow base / belted bullets (too much time to cast - btdt), don't want to get my barrels re-lined. It just makes sense to go with the bore size. Already did the .36 to .38 S&W /.38 Sp thing. Don't have any of those anymore either. I said all this in relation to the "self install" conversions. If I want a .44 or a .38, it's easy enough to buy them set up that way.
So, I guess I'm all over the map myself !!!!

45 Dragoon

 

[savit260]

The modern .44 Coltl may not be accurate compared to the original, but to me, even .44 Special would be better than .45 Colt. At least it is .44 caliber. That much is accurate.

I kind of look at the 45 Colt thing as and either/or type situation. You either use the 45 Cal bullet to fit the original (more or less) size bore OR you use a .429 bored barrel to accommodate an inside lubed 44 bullet. EITHER is a bit of a compromise in what would be historically accurate.

The modern Uberti 44 Colt replicas aren't set up to use a historically accurate heeled bullet (correct me if I'm wrong on that Craig) so either way , you're compromising on historical accuracy IMO. Personally, I don't see either compromise as being a big deal.

On a related note, I saw listed for sale the other day a 1870's ish period non factory conversion done on a Remington NMA in 45 S&W instead of the more common Heeled bullet 44 CF.

 

[Noz]

I enjoy both.

How foolish is it to deny yourself any kind of fun when shooting firearms? We live in a candy store, my friends. Let's indulge ourselves.

Damn it! There you go again. Making sense.

 

[YumaKid]

I'm in the "Love to shoot; wish I could shoot more often" crowd. And... (here comes the blasphemy).... I'm starting to like my 5-1/2" barrelled Remington NMA more that it's 8" barrelled older brother. Comes to hand easily, like a good K-Frame S&W; pokes holes in targets - and in tighter groups since I finally replaced my 10-year-old specs with a new pair in a new prescription! I have to agree with another poster in that there had to be at least one smithy somewhere who wondered how an NMA would handle with a shorter barrel and picked up his saw and files.
Thought quite a bit about de-farbing both revolvers.... but none of the warning labels appear in my sight picture, so it's a low priority.

"Car guys" would probably shoot coffee or beer out their noses if the saw the pile o' stuff I've been amassing for fuel-injecting my old Mercury Cougar. No Ford did NOT make regular production EFI at the same time as they were producing 351 Clevelands; but it's gonna be nice not having to remember "pedal to the floor twice; gentle pressure to half open the throttle plates, and speak the magic incantation" to make the car shake itself awake on chilly mornings. I tend to think in the same mind about my "noisy toys"; anything that makes the job easier is okay by me.
About the only thing that I'm not anxious to do is get cartridge conversion cylinders. They're a great idea, but I genuinely LIKE to pour powder, push a wad on top and ram a lead ball afterwards. I've got plenty of modern revolvers that can empty brass and do so very, very well.
Besides which, an accessory that costs more than the gun to which it applies requires a lot more discussion between my heart and my wallet.

 

[BowerR64]

Well im not going this far but i think most of the reproductions i have look close enough for me.

Ide love to own a real one but i feel these are close enough. For the cost you cant beat em.


This is a little to silly.

 

[Archie Otto]

I love side locks because of the styling and the Holy black for the smell and accuracy. Only bacon smells better .
I don't have the focus to be historically accurate.



Not yet seen an inline I thought was beautiful. When they start making a .54 cal. Omega with a 30" octagon barrel nestled ever so elegantly in a full length Ohio, Vincent or late lancaster styled curly maple stock ..... well that would be something to see.

 

[ivankerley]

i suppose i like historically inspired traditional guns! about the only thing im not game for would be inlines of any variety, brass 1860's or 58's, at least with a 51' you could plead you have a reb like revolver i believe if i was gonna get a brass 51 it'd have to be a proper .36 round barrel, so i guess im more hung up on history! as long as people shoot and enjoy it its a good thing regardless
lord knows my old cva hawken isnt "correct" but it meets my criteria and i love it
Thanks
gene

 

[CraigC]

The modern Uberti 44 Colt replicas aren't set up to use a historically accurate heeled bullet (correct me if I'm wrong on that Craig) so either way , you're compromising on historical accuracy IMO. Personally, I don't see either compromise as being a big deal.

Correct but hey, at least it's got the right head stamp!

"Car guys" would probably shoot coffee or beer out their noses if the saw the pile o' stuff I've been amassing for fuel-injecting my old Mercury Cougar.

For me, all sense of nostalgia goes out the window when it comes to fuel systems. I love old cars and trucks and have been eyeballing a `52 Chevy for a couple weeks. However, any project vehicle I get will eventually be outfitted with fuel injection, power steering, power disc brakes and air conditioning.

 

[Pancho]

Wether historically accurate or modern practical we muzzleloaders share a few traits that smokeless shooters never get.
In the time span a smokeless shooter can spray 50 rounds we will fire one.
We don't buy our rounds pre-made.
We hunt large game with one round.
We target shoot one round at a time and consider each shot.
We have the liberty to experiment at the range and receive instant results.
We are a strange bunch with one foot in the 15th, 16th, 17th,18th, 19th century and one foot in the 21st.

 

[theotherwaldo]

-Whereas my project cars tend to involve things like trembler coils, updraft carburetors, and babbit bearings. Or aircraft starter motors and golf cart batteries. Or whatever looks interesting at the time.

Much like my taste in firearms - and other weapons and tools.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Guess I'd call myself 'practical' if not 'modern practical'.

This is because:
I've noticed my sidelock percussion guns are easier to clean than my inlines.

I've noticed that the patched roundball is an especially effective deer killer and has done a better job for me than either saboted pistol bullets or conicals.

I've noticed it's MUCH easier to get consistently good accuracy with a PRB in a slow twist barrel than it is to get the same shooting saboted pistol bullets or conicals in a fast twist barrel.

I've noticed practical field accuracy holds up over a much longer string of shots when a moderate load of loose powder is used instead of a magnum load of either pellets or loose powder.

I've noticed that shorter, carbine length rifles work better out of a ground blind than either long-stemmed traditionals or modern inlines with 4" or 5" of spring-loaded gizmo before the barrel begins.

I've noticed that lead round balls and cloth patches are much cheaper than pistol bullets and sabots.

I've noticed that over the ranges that a muzzleloader can be relied on, either open sights or, better yet, aperture sights are preferable to a scope.

I've noticed the larger the bullet hole(s), the faster the deer expires, the less he runs, the easier the tracking, and the shorter the drag.

So my ideal 'practical' muzzleloader is:
A .54 percussion sidelock which will shoot Patched Round Balls accurately with a barrel 21" to 26" long, peep sights, and loaded with no more than 90 gr. of powder. Prosaic but effective.
YMMV


ETA: OTOH, I own several rifles that fail to meet this ideal that I still enjoy shooting and hunting with.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I enjoy all camps, Past Present and Future. Anything Black Powder is sure to catch my interest.

I've even shot Smokeless cartridges, but I never inhaled.

 

[tpelle]

I think that there's room in the "historically accurate" camp for necessary "modern" concessions due to legal and other practical issues. After all, having an historically accurate .44 pinfire revolver wouldn't be of much good since ammunition is unobtainable. Loading with a substitute may be the only option available. And if you're shooting, say, a Walker replica, you certainly can't help (and this is a good thing) that it's made from modern steel - having one's Walker blow up in one's face is not conducive to the enjoyment of the hobby, no matter how historically accurate that may be!

So compromises must sometimes be made. However, in my opinion - and I stress that it's only my opinion - one should endeavor to try to use as historically accurate a firearm as possible and to load, fire, and clean it in a manner true to the period, or at least as accurately as one can manage.

 

[StrawHat]

...I do agree with CraigC about the .45 Colt in the conversions. The modern .44 Coltl may not be accurate compared to the original, but to me, even .44 Special would be better than .45 Colt. At least it is .44 caliber. That much is accurate...

The 44 Colt, as originally loaded used the original barrel and heeled bullets the same diameter as the outside of the shell, roughly .452. So it was in reality a 45. The "modern" 44 Colt is really a 43 caliber.

 

[PRM]

I guess both... I like the traditional arms and shooting them. But, I don't dress up like a kid in cowboy/mountain man attire. I do have some modern style holsters for my C&Bs.

 

[whisler]

"No, but I know where you're talking about, and was born and raised just down the road in 'M'. I currently live about halfway between 'SG' and 'A', in 'CS'.

Hah! That was fun, but I bet we confused everyone else on here besides you and me!"

Yes that was fun! I live between SG and CS on the road that runs between them. I bet you know exactly where that is.

 

[Crawdad1]

I just called my buddy who has been living in Germany for the last 20years. Some of the stuff he said ain't good over there even for black powder firearms, so J-Bar is dead on, we live in a candy store over here guys..... indulge away!!!!!

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I've even shot Smokeless cartridges, but I never inhaled.

Haha. Well said.

 

[SC Shooter]

AS I am just now getting into BP shooting, I may not be knowledgeable enough to address your thread. My thought is to start off with a reproduction of one of the historic percussion revolvers, and then as I become more proficient move into authentic originals. My thought on this is that I do not want to pay a lot of money for something I might just screw up due to lack of knowledge. Like you, I love the history of guns, and try as best I can to be as authentic as possible.

 

[rodwha]

I believe what he meant is the use of a historically correct reproduction such as the pistol you mentioned vs an inline styled gun, something much newer in design.

 

[tpelle]

"No, but I know where you're talking about, and was born and raised just down the road in 'M'. I currently live about halfway between 'SG' and 'A', in 'CS'.

Hah! That was fun, but I bet we confused everyone else on here besides you and me!"

Yes that was fun! I live between SG and CS on the road that runs between them. I bet you know exactly where that is.

Yep! You're not far away at all.