Ares SCR AR with traditional stock

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gunnutery

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I hadn't seen this posted in it's own thread yet and thought it deserved one. As much as I don't like having to work around stupid gun laws, I do like this model. I've always liked the traditional style rifle stock. Which is why I held onto my Mini 14 for so long, only recently having switched over to an AR15.

If you scroll down on the comments section on the link, someone has posted some patent papers with how the internals work.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/10/video-unreleased-ares-defense-scr-surfaces/
 
I think it looks very interesting; of course, it's all about the price and performance before we know just how interesting it is.
 
Thanks Ugaarguy, I probably should've posted in the OP but I already had a late start at chores.

Looks pretty cool, very similar to a Mossberg 930 recoil action. I always knew there must be a way to get by without the usual buffer tube (aside from a piston).
 
Gunnettry, you're right: It looks like almost every gas operated semi-auto shotgun (Saiga, MKA 1919, and the like aside) I've seen, with the very front of an AR-15 bolt carrier (and the associated bolt) grafted on. If it proves to be reliable it's another great option for folks in ban states while we fight the battles in the court rooms and the legislatures.
 
Bumping the thread to note that Ares is apparently working up batches already:

aWttyAK.png

A few other cool pics:

242iyi8.jpg

Here's the internal "rat tail" FAL-esque recoil mechanism:

17sqkm.jpg

Word thus far is MSRP around $900, and for now they're selling as full rifles, not stripped lowers. Lower is compatible with any AR-15 upper, the difference is the proprietary bolt carrier. Will be sold with Standard, Standard Short, and Monte Carlo stock options. Haven't heard any exact word on release date, but I'm on the B&H waitlist.
 
Honestly, I think the bolt rat-tail and angled spring is a better solution than what the AR had in the first place. Used extensively in submachineguns for decades before they went to STEN-tube construction during/post WWII and ditched straight stocks, necessarily. Just think; without the need for super tall optics risers because your head rests over the receiver level, everything can get closer to the rail, making a lighter and more compact rifle. And you can still keep your telescoping stock, with the butt pad telescoping along the spring axis with the comb a separate fixed/adjustable piece.

242iyi8.jpg
Anyone else think the forward assist and dust cover give the gun a "Krag" vibe now that it has a straight stock? :D Man, that rifle above would be sweet with an integrally suppressed barrel :cool:

TCB
 
Looks like a 870 shoulder stock, and the gun looks great. I may have to count some pennies. And that bolt is similar to most auto shotguns I have seen, very similar setup to my rem11
 
I am pretty sure either the person putting that together was ex soviet, or they only had an extra AR optic laying around for the shoot.
 
Yes, with the added height from the stock drop, a riser on the red dot is too much.

Having seen this much interest in it, I have to ask, in comparison, what do you think of the Mossberg 464 SPX lever action now? If a traditional stock with AR upper looks OK, then AR furniture on a lever action frame can't be that bad.

I'm thinking tactical team mall security firearm. No doubt it can and will sell in places where such things shouldn't be legislated into existence, but the facts are that some states are forcing their citizens into buying arms only Gecko45 would love.

Nobody deserves that.

"The active grabber alarm went off from the jewelry kiosk, and the team rapidly donned their jump gear, grabbing their Ares SCR's from the rack on the run. Approaching the tactically positioned skylight, they activated it's silent opening and leaped from 30 feet into the mall, landing on a vendors bounce house strategically placed underneath. They consolidated their position, scanning the hallways filled with happy shoppers thru their Nomex hoods, and spotted the 13 year old runner sprinting down the side hall toward the back exit . . ."

TARGET MINOR, SIMUNITIONS! Called out the team leader, and the skilled operators switched to the blue mags in their Blackhawk Commando Tactical Strike chest harness, releasing the color coded Pmags from their taco pouches . . .

"This punk kid is going to feel the sting of our wrath!" thought the team leader. "MOVE OUT!"
 
"If a traditional stock with AR upper looks OK, then AR furniture on a lever action frame can't be that bad."
It's not so much it 'looks okay' as it's honestly a superior way of arranging the gun. Let's be honest with ourselves; the straight buffer tube is not a benefit, it is a unergonomic compromise we deal with that is the result of how the bolt buffer was arranged, and requires we raise the sights high above the bore axis. By dropping the buffer down at an angle, you get a better sight/bore axis arrangement, that's more like most other rifles that have been made. Perhaps the AR's infinitesimal recoil is now slightly higher on the shoulder, but we also now have a recoiling element shifting downward at the rear of the action (KRISS style) which may counteract any additional muzzle rise.

The AR action is a fine action on its own, so why relegate it to only the AR's particular mix of pros and cons? Different strokes for different folks, but most everyone can find some benefit from the light weight and compact action the Stoner system allows.

TCB
 
sell it as a lower only with a good trigger and I'm in. Now somebody make an affordable side charging upper because as stupid as the charging handle is on a real AR, it's ever worse on a rifle. Hopefully in addition to resolving the optics issues we have reduced the buffer impact and sproing noises. (and to the people who say deal with it, that's fine, I can "deal" with sproing and noise, but it is not an asset to the gun and I will not try and make excuses for the design)

OR somebody make a su-16 that doesn't feel cheesy.
 
I think it was someone on The Firearm Blog that compared the SCR to the Benelli MR1. I think the only major comparisons are in the action of the bolt and the placement of the mag release. Other than that, the manipulation of the rest of the MR1 is pretty different.

When the MR1 came out, I was halfway in the market for a new gun to replace my Mini14. I was at least weighing the different options out there. I'm typically a guy that likes "something different" than the norm. I had to rule out the MR1 however, mainly due to the right hand charge handle and the obnoxiously long reach for the mag release. There were other reasons too, but those were the main ones. In the end, when it came down to replacing the Mini14, I chose the AR because I finally realized a need for commonality and availability in parts and ease of operation.

I think the SCR is a big step over the MR1, but until I live in a backwards state, I'll probably stick with the standard AR style. Although I could see the SCR being a good base for a long range set up.

benelli_mr1_1231101.jpg
 
Looks solid.. wonder how it feels having that mass moving in the wrist and if it can be as robust as the AR system.
 
The current bolt can take 5.56 and 300blk, otherwise yes, switching to other calibers would require another bolt.
 
The current bolt can take 5.56 and 300blk, otherwise yes, switching to other calibers would require another bolt.

In the same sense as you'd do for any standard AR-15, nothing special about bolt changes with the SCR. It's the bolt carrier that's modified.

Although file me in the "never satisfied" category for pondering how this would better if it were a side-charging upper, but that I imagine would require making some mods to the proprietary BCG.

I would've prefered a Mossberg-style safety (under the thumb), vice this Remington-style crossbolt by the trigger finger. But I grant that this settup may make it easier to gear up aftermarket stocks.



The more I think about the SCR (or a similar model if Ares fails to get the lead out and bring this to market), the more I feel this is a really valid design even AWBs aside. Some of the AR15 folks have been histrionic and reacting with "it's a monstrosity!!!!" and the like, but really historically speaking it's way less "weird" that the standard AR is, with its jutting out in all directions, crazy high sights, etc.
 
No argument the straight line buffer creates other issues. But, the point it, that a firearm has to accommodate the fact that our line of sight, and line of stock is separated by about 5 inches. So if you straight line the action, it lowers the barrel and the sights have to be elevated. If you raise the action by dropping the stock, you can get the sights right down on the barrel - but you also create a recoil issue, the stock rotates up into the cheekbone.

That means the straight line action is perceived as having less recoil than the dropped stock version. There are tradeoffs, Stoner chose ones he felt enhanced the user's ability to get back on target sooner with less muzzle rise and a more "user friendly" feel.

So, the straight line stock has it's advantages, too. If you are firing 300 rounds a day in combat, recoil and it's perception is exactly what the design is meant to reduce. That was a significant factor in shooting the .30 cal battle rifles that preceded it, and why firearms makers were moving into straight line actions in intermediate cartridges long before Stoner adopted it. Don't forget, the AR15 was originally the .308 caliber AR10 first - which has 150% more recoil in terms of foot pounds of force, 15 to the 5.56 at 5.

Look to the bolt actions that grew Monte Carlo cheek rests, the attempt was to get the head up and not have the cheekbone angled downward into the stock. Doing that, the feel of recoil is directed away from the skull and perceived as "less." With magnum calibers, you don't seem to get smacked in the face as much.

The art and science in stocking guns goes a lot more into the perception of recoil than we think. And how we grip a wrist - or a pistol grip - has a lot less to do with accuracy in a rifle than a handgun. It's held by the shoulder and off hand, the finger hand only has to pull the trigger straight back.

Had ARES copied an action with the cycling springs in the action or over the barrel, then any stock, including a folding one, would be possible. That's been done a lot with piston AR's, and it works with the AK, too. Most bullpups require it.

So, what's the point of them coming up with a complicated angled action spring when it's really unnecessary? And why copy a traditional stock in polymer when it's really not necessary? A stock only contacts the user at the shoulder and cheek, any where else it's dead weight and the wood stock design actually is less efficient. It's a triumph of styling over function in a lot of respects.

I'd rather shoot my functional straight line stock with "absurdly high" sights. It's as ergonomic as any other, more so because it's more modern and some thought was given to it, not simply adopted because tradition made it so.
 
I'd rather shoot my functional straight line stock with "absurdly high" sights. It's as ergonomic as any other, more so because it's more modern and some thought was given to it, not simply adopted because tradition made it so.

Oh, I wasn't knocking modern rifle ergonomics as such, just the narrow-focus of "looks weird" about a rifle that pretty much anyone from the 16th century up to 1960 would say looks (relatively) more "normal" than the M16. :D

I do like AR ergonomics, and I was trained on an M16, so if those were legal where I live I'd own a standard AR, but since they aren't legal, I find the SCR a viable and not-horrifying option.
 
Looks like what I'd imagine a semi auto version of the Remington 7615 would look like. Why did they never produce a 7415 for AWB states? I like the look, and hope the Ares comes to market.
 
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