Arisaka 99 question

[Amarillo slim]

Inherited arisaka 99 from FIL years ago. Bad sportier job, cut down stock, missing bands etc. has a mum, chamber crudely stamped 30'06. Turned down bolt, plum knob. Milled safety. Toyo kogyo arsenal markings. Missing sight ears on front, wings on rear sight. Blue bolt face, bolt numbers match, but do not match receiver no. Anyone know what I have?

 

[deadin]

I think you hit it! (Nothing worth mentioning other than a shooter.)

 

[WardenWolf]

Well, it's worthless as anything but a shooter. The only good news is that it's perfectly safe to shoot as long as the headspace is correct. These guns are more than strong enough to take .30-06 (PO Ackley tried to blow one up with .30-06 in the 50's. He only managed with an absolutely nuclear load). I'd check headspace and see how she shoots. It may not be a great shooter due to .30-06 being slightly undersized for the bore, but you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Anyone know what I have?

Apparently you do:

Bad sportier job

I'd say your options are:

1) Re-do the sporterizing to make it a gun you like.

3) Sell it for peanuts

3) Leave it as-is, it can become a truck gun/beater.

 

[rcmodel]

Sounds like a vet bring-back somebody butchered in an attempt to make a sporter out of it.
Then re chambered it to use 30-06 ammo.

The problem is, the 7.7 Jap has a .312" bore, and 30-06 has 308" bullets.

rc

 

[MachIVshooter]

The problem is, the 7.7 Jap has a .312" bore, and 30-06 has 308" bullets.

Assuming that is was rechambered rather than rebarreled, that's an easy fix for a hand loader. Fewer bullet option and may mean neck turning cases to fit a .30-06 throat with .311-.312 pills seated, but doable.

Having said that, some .311" rifles get perfectly acceptable velocity and accuracy with .308 bullets. My Enfield does fine with Hornady 150 gr. FMJ-BT

 

[cactus02]

That gun is plenty strong. N R A story from the fifties. A shooter had done the same job and complained it kicked like a mule. The NRA experts found he had done the chambering job to a 6.5mm not the thirty cal. The gun was squeezing the bullet from 308 to 264. The barrel was ruined but the action and bolt were still safe.

 

[Garrobo]

You have

a club disguised as a rifle. I'd junk it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

a club disguised as a rifle. I'd junk it.

 

[tark]

Hey, be nice! It may be ugly but then, so are some people. (me) That doesn't mean that those people are worthless and should be executed.

If the gun shoots at all, is has value and you can have some fun with it. I had a 6.5 Arisaka long rifle that had been murdered in similar fashion. It was a shame, because it was a very early gun and the build quality was equal to any Mauser that ever lived. I found ten boxes of Norma Ammo, 156 gr round nose and off to the range I went. The gun shot inch groups at 100 yards. It humiliated many a bolt action scope sighted rifle.

Look at the bright side, it is chambered for a readily available "relatively" cheap cartridge. That alone makes it worth keeping.

Can't beat the price either.

 

[Amarillo slim]

Well.....it is ugly

But I am intrigued. Reading, I find turned down sniper bolts. Bolt face was chromed until near the end. Last ditch bolt handles were simplified to a 2 step cylindrical shape. Do I have a last ditch with mismatched bolt? 30'06 was chambered for surplus rifles in occupation Japan. My guess it was carried back after Korea by FIL, stationed in Japan after conflict. Did the bolt need to be altered to accept the 30'06?

 

[rcmodel]

It was not converted in occupied Japan.

Virtually all surrendered rifles had the Mum ground off before they were surrendered as part of the surrender agreement.

If the Mum is intact, you have a captured WWII vet bring back.

Following the war, there was no 7.7 Jap ammo to be hade in the USA.

So a lot of them were rechambered to 30-06 in somebody's basement so they could be shot.

Bolt face did not need to be altered.
7.7 Jap case head = .470".
30-06 case head = .473".

rc

 

[Curator]

Simply reload some .30-03 brass using .311 or .312 bullets and you are good to go.

 

[boom boom]

Hate to partly contradict RCmodel but via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_99_rifle

"Other users
During the Korean War, approximately 126,500 short and 6650 long Type 99 Rifles were re-chambered under American supervision at the Tokyo arsenal to fire the then-standard .30-06 Springfield cartridge. "Apparently" intended for the South Korean "gendarmerie", few rifles appear to have been issued at the end of the war in 1953. These rifles were fitted with a lengthened magazine well and had a small notch cut in the top of the receiver to accommodate the .30-06 round's 1/3 inch greater length.[4] Accuracy suffered, due to the difference in cartridges, rifling rate and characteristics, but they were nonetheless functional. Conversions to both .30-06 and 7.62 NATO have also been performed by civilians, often along with sporterising modifications."

Of course, as rcmodel says, it could have been rechambered here--not sure if there is a way to tell.

Hatcher has some things to say about the T99 chamber conversion as well. Major issue is that the T99 chamber is fatter at the rear than the 30-06 chamber and your .30.06 brass will swell at the back which means short brass life--mainly an issue if you reload or fire reloaded cartridges. See page 210 of Hatcher's Notebook (the Stackpole Edition).

 

[kBob]

A lot of the 99s were simply rechambered by having a .30 -06 reamer shoved and turned into the existing chamber by small gunshops all over the US.

I personally would not want to use surplus .30-06 in one. Anyone remember the window blow outs on some WWII to Korean war vintage m2 ball? I would hate to experience that in a chamber that is a bit sloppy at the rear. I would be sorely tempted to make this a squib load shooter or mid range gas check lead shooter if I just had to shoot it.

What makes me really sad is that if folks had done a little research they could have left those rifle chambers alone and simply run .30-06 brass through a 7.7 sizing die and trimmed to appropriate length and reloaded as 7.7 Jap with the right size bullets. Again I might be a little paranoid about full house loads in that undersized .30-06 brass, though after fire forming that first time......

I once found one shell case at the range that looked GI on the head stamp except for a tiny 7.7 stamped between the arsenal letters. Nice that someone bothered marking their conversion.

My most "fun" experience with a 7.7 Jap was when a friend announced his had lousy accuracy and blew cases left and right......he was shooting 6.5 Jap in it.

-kBob

 

[joem1945]

Watched a shooter at the club fire a 7.7 sporter he got when his dad died. It was chambered for .30-06 but it had the 7.7 barrel. Accuracy was beyond poor @ 25 yds.

 

[tark]

Kbob hit the nail on the head. Making 7.7 brass out of 30-06 casings is simple and easy. Remove the decapper from the die, grease up the 06 case and run it into the 7.7 die. you will end up with a 7.7 case with a long neck. which can be trimmed.

If the rifle was converted properly it should be just fine with any 06 factory load. At least try it with .308 bullets. My type 99 has a chamber that will accept 308 ammo, just barely. The bolt closes with a slight resistance as the base of the shoulder contacts the chamber walls, holding it quite securely. It is surprisingly accurate. The fired cases look like a bottleneck cartridge with no neck left, but it shoots into three or four inches at 100 yards. No keyholes. When I reload with .311 bullets the accuracy only slightly improves.

I doubt you have a last ditch rifle but it is easy to tell. If the upper tang on the receiver is a separate part you are OK. If it is integral to the receiver it is last ditch.