Yeah I collect manuals to give away when people needed them.
I know for a fact I have the Lyman manual I'm PRETTY sure I have the cartridges of the world too If you want I could send you both.
Arisaka: correct caliber issue
- Thread starter Heir Kommt Die Sonne
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I know for a fact I have the Lyman manual I'm PRETTY sure I have the cartridges of the world too If you want I could send you both.
troy fairweather
Member
straightShot
Member
How do you tell the training rifles from the real thing? When I was younger, I remember hearing about problems from people trying to fire full loads in training rifles since the trainers looked so similar and they didn't know that they were trainers. I'm not sure what ammo the trainers were supposed to handle nor how you tell them apart. (I know that my Jap rifle and bayonet are authentic since my dad sent two rifles and bayonets home.)
OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Apparently those were smoothbore. Mine is rifled
caribou
Member
Imperial Japanese training rifles were purposely built as well as the use of old, tired rifles were decommissioned and passed on fro schools and paramilitary training.
These worn old rifles have rifled barrels, but were used with blanks in training.
Retired military training rifles were marked as such,usually 3 circles over the Mum decommissioned them.
Often they have some sort of paint along the buttstock saying something about training or the school they are at.
Somme were built as trainers from the start, usually with smooth bores for blank firing.....and struck so, as well there were school rifles built on a 7/8ths scale.
These worn old rifles have rifled barrels, but were used with blanks in training.
Retired military training rifles were marked as such,usually 3 circles over the Mum decommissioned them.
Often they have some sort of paint along the buttstock saying something about training or the school they are at.
Somme were built as trainers from the start, usually with smooth bores for blank firing.....and struck so, as well there were school rifles built on a 7/8ths scale.
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I have a Japanese 7.7 Arisaka. I tried to made a 30-06 fit in the magazine, and it was too long. So how did those guys who made 30-06 conversions make them feed from the magazine?
I did read in a post WW2, might have been Hatcher's Notebook, that the case head of the 7.7 Arisaka is wider than the 30-06 and that could cause case head ruptures.
I did read in a post WW2, might have been Hatcher's Notebook, that the case head of the 7.7 Arisaka is wider than the 30-06 and that could cause case head ruptures.
The one I had in 30-06 fed fine for the magazine. Whoever did the conversion ground some off of the front of the magazine opening in the receiver and then split the magazine box and reattached it with silver solder and a bridge on each side....
Not sure if that's the prescribed way to do the job but it worked well enough.
Unfortunately or perhaps thankfully the guy didn't do as good a job at reaming in the chamber. If it had comfortably chambered an 06 round I might have been tempted to shoot that 6 lb little menace.....
Nominally the 7.7x58 should be very close to the 30-06 and it's family of cartridges.
What I actually found in measuring 30-06 brass is the instead of the .473 It's supposed to spec most of it's something like .466-.470.
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caribou
Member
U.S. rifle .30 cal Type 99 Japanese was our 'official' name for the converted rifles.
America and the South Koreans had the conversions done in South Korea, in South Korean depots.
Tested and inspected , accepted or rejected, it works on quite a few thousand of them.
I think Hatcher came to the conclusion that the Japanese type 38 was the strongest bolt action made at the time.
America and the South Koreans had the conversions done in South Korea, in South Korean depots.
Tested and inspected , accepted or rejected, it works on quite a few thousand of them.
I think Hatcher came to the conclusion that the Japanese type 38 was the strongest bolt action made at the time.
OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Update:
The Cerrosafe arrived, and today I decided to try it out.
I melted the cerrosafe in a glass jar that I placed in a pot of boiling water. It took a while to melt, like 20 minutes. When it melted, I poured into a pie pan which I bent at the end which I could then pour through a funnel into the chamber of the rifle. This didn't go as easy as planned, it stuck to the pie pan and when it hit the chamber, alot of it mushed up at the rear. No idea as of yet if enough formed to the chamber or not, but in 30 minutes to an hour I will see.
Lesson: Make sure the surfaces I handle the smelted cerrosafe on are hot as well.
The Cerrosafe arrived, and today I decided to try it out.
I melted the cerrosafe in a glass jar that I placed in a pot of boiling water. It took a while to melt, like 20 minutes. When it melted, I poured into a pie pan which I bent at the end which I could then pour through a funnel into the chamber of the rifle. This didn't go as easy as planned, it stuck to the pie pan and when it hit the chamber, alot of it mushed up at the rear. No idea as of yet if enough formed to the chamber or not, but in 30 minutes to an hour I will see.
Lesson: Make sure the surfaces I handle the smelted cerrosafe on are hot as well.
OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Not good news, the cerrosafe is stuck in the chamber. Either it was too cool or i waited too long to take it out. Using a rod and hammer force couldn't get it out.
This is my first time doing something like this. I have the barrel and reciever out of the stock, going to use a blowtorch to heat the cerrosafe out.
This is my first time doing something like this. I have the barrel and reciever out of the stock, going to use a blowtorch to heat the cerrosafe out.
OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Before I started this, I used a flashlight and looked carefully into the chamber. Comparing the fireformed case and the inside of the chamber there's a noticeable ring before the neck. I have a hutch that whoever did that was reaming it to a specific caliber but didn't finish.
Also discovered after taking the barrel from the stock, the rest of the barrel under the stock is original blued (only the receiver is pakerised) . So meaning this disqualifies it from being a US re-arsenal?
Also discovered after taking the barrel from the stock, the rest of the barrel under the stock is original blued (only the receiver is pakerised) . So meaning this disqualifies it from being a US re-arsenal?
Swampman
Old Fart
You don't need to use a blowtorch, a heat gun or even some blow dryers will melt the Cerrosafe out.
OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Well good thing I was growing my hair out. I bought a hairdryer earlier this week. Gonna try it out
BJung
Member
I don't think you need to chamber cast. Your brass is fire-formed to the chamber. I'd phone around and look for an old gunsmith. He probably has a collection of old shells to compare to yours. If it's not a 30--06, maybe consider reaming out the chamber to take it so you have readily available brass.
caribou
Member
If it was parkerized, its most likely been in a US Milittary run South Korean or Japanese armory.
?Maybe Bubba could parkerize? .........but still a 30-06 case is 63 mm long, the 7.7 58 mm long and the .308 is 51 mm long.
I have brass from a .308 win shot through a 30-06 M70 Winchester, and the neck of the .308 expands out to be a prefect straight walled case, ending at the shoulder length of the 30-06. a .308 case is 1/2 an inch shorter than a 30-06 in overall length.
Im thinking a 30-06 would drop on in, looking at the pictures of your fired brass.
How can we get you some '06?
?Maybe Bubba could parkerize? .........but still a 30-06 case is 63 mm long, the 7.7 58 mm long and the .308 is 51 mm long.
I have brass from a .308 win shot through a 30-06 M70 Winchester, and the neck of the .308 expands out to be a prefect straight walled case, ending at the shoulder length of the 30-06. a .308 case is 1/2 an inch shorter than a 30-06 in overall length.
Im thinking a 30-06 would drop on in, looking at the pictures of your fired brass.
How can we get you some '06?
OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Already have some, and it fits in the magazine of this Arisaka perfectly, but when I close the bolt it refuses to close.
Since our fireformed case isn't completely straight, but has a weird sharp taper before the neck that makes me think maybe bubba didn't finish rechambering it.
My plan is if i'm correct that it wasn't a finished rechamber, I'm going to have it chambered in 30.06 (then marked)
EDIT: Tomorrow morning I'm going to update everyone on what I find out.
BJung
Member
Here is a photo of a 30-06 case that was resized using RCBS 7.7x58 dies. The case next to it is a fireformed case to my T99 chamber. Notice that if it were fire-formed to your chamber to resemble your case, it would be shorter than the untrimmed/resized 30-06 case.
OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
UPDATE:
I've been using the hairdryer on the chamber of the rifle for 30 minutes now and the cerrosafe still hasn't melted out. At this point I really am discouraged on continuing even further. This rifle has been a mystery for so long and I feel like now I've ruined the rifle by using the cerrosafe.
I've been using the hairdryer on the chamber of the rifle for 30 minutes now and the cerrosafe still hasn't melted out. At this point I really am discouraged on continuing even further. This rifle has been a mystery for so long and I feel like now I've ruined the rifle by using the cerrosafe.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-to-remove-cerrosafe.545591/
I'd probably take a heat gun or torch to it, because those are what I have and I'd rather not have to bury the gun in a pot of boiling water...... just heat it slowly, and it should come out.....
I'd probably take a heat gun or torch to it, because those are what I have and I'd rather not have to bury the gun in a pot of boiling water...... just heat it slowly, and it should come out.....
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OP
OP
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
I used my propane stove to heat the cerrosafe out. The good news is I actually got it all in my first pour. I just didn't lubricate the chamber before I poured it. Bad news is, the cerrosafe melted to the other parts of the rifle but I did a good job getting that all out. I'm just worried the flame from the the propane stove messed up the heat treat of the metal. Can propane flame do that? I mainly kept it 4 inches away from the flame.
I don't think I'm going to use cerrosafe again. It was too akward for me to pour in there and then I had this problem, for something I already figured before I casted that it wasn't a finished rechamber anyway. My best guess is .30 Gibbs. I don't think I'll make the effort to actually buy ammunition for this rifle, I'm going to have it rechambered for 30.06 and call it a day. It was a fun project. Or else if someone on this forum wants to make me a offer on the rifle.
I will clean out the rest of the cerrosafe bits, put it back together and I might put together a video about this rifle.
@ LoonWulf Thank you ALOT for all the help and advice you've given me. I appreciate it tons. And thanks to everyone else who's posted in this thread, posted pictures of their own cartridges side by side helping me figure out the caliber.
I may not know what the exact caliber is supposed to be, but I learned several things.
1. Cartridges of the World is a MUST HAVE book.
2. Make sure your military surplus rifles are in original chambering before firing. Always a chance Bubba tried wildcatting at some point.
3. If you do change the caliber of your weapon, HAVE IT MARKED so any future owners know what you did.
4. Cerrosafe is a useful tool to keep around, so long as you know how to use it properly.
5. The Japanese Arisaka is a beefy and elegant rifle.
I don't think I'm going to use cerrosafe again. It was too akward for me to pour in there and then I had this problem, for something I already figured before I casted that it wasn't a finished rechamber anyway. My best guess is .30 Gibbs. I don't think I'll make the effort to actually buy ammunition for this rifle, I'm going to have it rechambered for 30.06 and call it a day. It was a fun project. Or else if someone on this forum wants to make me a offer on the rifle.
I will clean out the rest of the cerrosafe bits, put it back together and I might put together a video about this rifle.
@ LoonWulf Thank you ALOT for all the help and advice you've given me. I appreciate it tons. And thanks to everyone else who's posted in this thread, posted pictures of their own cartridges side by side helping me figure out the caliber.
I may not know what the exact caliber is supposed to be, but I learned several things.
1. Cartridges of the World is a MUST HAVE book.
2. Make sure your military surplus rifles are in original chambering before firing. Always a chance Bubba tried wildcatting at some point.
3. If you do change the caliber of your weapon, HAVE IT MARKED so any future owners know what you did.
4. Cerrosafe is a useful tool to keep around, so long as you know how to use it properly.
5. The Japanese Arisaka is a beefy and elegant rifle.
Happy to help....or try to LOL..
I've taken propane torches to receiver rings on bolt action rifles and not seen an issue yet..... Doesn't mean it's not possible but I bet you'd have to hold it there for a while to get it hot enough to actually damage the heat treat.
Someone who actually knows more than I do may have a different opinion though, mine is simply from messing with stuff.
I'll shoot you a PM about the rifle, It's been awhile since I've had an OLD project to work on.
I've taken propane torches to receiver rings on bolt action rifles and not seen an issue yet..... Doesn't mean it's not possible but I bet you'd have to hold it there for a while to get it hot enough to actually damage the heat treat.
Someone who actually knows more than I do may have a different opinion though, mine is simply from messing with stuff.
I'll shoot you a PM about the rifle, It's been awhile since I've had an OLD project to work on.
caribou
Member
Heating the metals to low propane temps shouldnt effect it, but MAPP gas would get it cherry.
An Arisaka is a sweet shooting rifle, too, whatever your chamber ends up being, handloads with bullets that fit the 7.7 bore will go a long way t'wards a VERY accurate rifle.
An Arisaka is a sweet shooting rifle, too, whatever your chamber ends up being, handloads with bullets that fit the 7.7 bore will go a long way t'wards a VERY accurate rifle.
BJung
Member
Let us know when you shoot your new 7.7-63mm ( that's a 30-06 necked up to a .311 ).
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