Armalite is supporting NY by still selling AR rifles to police. DONE WITH ARMALITE!

[Girodin]

I think shooters are way too busy-body on this issue and have WAY too much to say about how businesses conduct themselves.

Shooters and anyone else can choose where to spend their dollars for whatever reasons they like.

I know I'm inclined to support companies that support my rights. I will buy from Barrett and LaRue based on their stance. I will continue to buy from magpul. In fact I recently was looking at some stocks, PGs, etc. There are companies that mag ones I like just as well as magpul. However, I ordered magpul products largely because of their stance on the CO bill.

Like with every other discussion of this nature, we have people who have no clue what it takes to run a business, especially in such a politically volatile industry, thinking they should be able to dictate how another runs theirs.

I've been involved in running businesses for years. The fact is that customers do dictate the way a company is run. O'l Scratch and others like him are simply trying to make it potentially financially damaging to not be on the RKBA side of this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. A company can decide which sales are more valuable to it and which is a greater economic risk.

CraigC, a lot of us are very politically active. A lot of us give money, are members of various pro RKBA groups, lobby politicians, work to elect pro RKBA politicians, etc. Voting with our dollars is one more thing we can do. These things are not mutually exclusive. Pressuring companies financially is one way to help affect political change. Why in the world shouldn't I choose to support a company that is very active and clear in helping to fight for our rights versus one that is not? It not unlike choosing to buy from places that are active in charity or the like versus a competitor that is not.

 

[arizona_cards_11]

It's not a business' responsibility to stand up for YOUR rights as an individual. No matter the nature of the industry. Particularly when it represents an economic risk to them.

Like with every other discussion of this nature, we have people who have no clue what it takes to run a business, especially in such a politically volatile industry, thinking they should be able to dictate how another runs theirs. Sorry but this is no more or less disgusting than what I hear from the other side. Shooters hanging their own out to dry over such silly things does FAR more damage to our cause than Armalite selling rifles to NY. Personally, I'd rather see them in business, even if that means selling to NY and CA governments than out of business.

Here's a question. You run your own business. One of the 20 municipalities you do business with passes a law or ordnance that you disagree with. Are you willing to throw away your business with them over this? What if it threatens your relationship with the other 19? Or do you continue to feed and clothe your family with their money? IMHO, the idealism goes out the window when it's YOUR business, YOUR livelihood and YOUR family that will suffer because of YOUR principles.

Are they really principles if you aren't willing to suffer for them? Principles aren't something that can be dismissed at the first sign of trouble.

No one is keeping them from doing business with an authoritarian entity.....but their actions have consequences. As I see it, you're arming the enemy.

I'm an idealist.....I've been called worse.

 

[Skylerbone]

I'll thank you to not voice my actions for me. I am an NRA member and regular contributor. I also vote with my dollars as a consumer. I do indeed write and call my congressmen regularly regarding issues that affect my rights. I take a stand and my line is drawn.

Any company that would acquiesce to the will of the very group who seeks their ultimate and swift demise has not enough sense to be a business. They will not be the one-eyed man in the land of the blind, simply another suicide. Insofar as S&W and Ruger are concerned, what hope does any investment firm have of gaining back loyalty toward a brand that poisoned the well? Are you suggesting bean counters should be hailed as heroes for snatching up brands like so much carrion? It's not up to you to say who deserves a second chance, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Sav .250]

They are a business .They need to make money for the Co and employees. Winning the battle and losing the war (business wise) is sense-less.

If you work.......... Would you quit if your employer said, you have to quit smoking(just an example) You could. Win the battle but lose your job. Sense-less!

I don`t think the "Town`s people" will follow you down the street with torches.

 

[CraigC]

I don't have a problem with boycotting anyone for any legitimate reason. What I have a problem with is sitting here, moaning about what Armalite does, hanging our own out to dry and yet doing NOTHING to work against the real problem. If you're doing that, YOU are part of the problem. Sorry if I can't just jump on your bandwagon without engaging my brain.

Are they really principles if you aren't willing to suffer for them?

We're not talking about protecting the rights of pedophiles here. If your company sells widgets to the state of New York, you gonna quit your job right then and there? You gonna explain to your wife and kids that they're hungry and the mortgage is delinquent but at least you stood on your principles? Or is this going to be another unanswered question? Like I said, it's real easy when it ain't your money and well-being.

 

[CraigC]

It's not up to you to say who deserves a second chance, fool me twice, shame on me.

Like I said, the crap about Ruger is pure myth and he's dead anyway. The foreigners you boycotted at S&W are long gone. So your ill will is misplaced but I guess it's just easier to complain about S&W and Ruger on the internet. Did you do as much against your government which sponsored those lawsuits?

 

[AABEN]

How does AR L know where the money comes from?? The state could give the officer money to buy the gun!!

 

[Sam1911]

Look, I've put a lot of money into the RKBA fight in a number of ways. Many of us have. That is pretty much irrelevant to the question at hand, which is can we exert influence on a manufacturer to take an action which supports our rights? To ask those who we give our money to, to in turn stand with us on an issue of common interest.

The fact that it might be painful to them, or to their employees is WHY it works. Otherwise, we'd not have the ability to exert that influence. They SHOULD do it, and we wish they WOULD do it simply because it is the righteous thing to do. But sometimes the ball doesn't roll without a financial kick.

The fact that someone may suffer for the wrong decision (or the right decision, or ANY decision, or NO decision) is honestly not the most important factor in the larger picture.

We aren't doing anything at all unethical or malicious. Simply choosing where to spend our money. Telling a company why you DON'T spend your money with them is an important thing for them to know. Maybe it is because they don't make a good enough product. Maybe it is because they don't make a left-hand version of what you want. Maybe it is because they aren't supporting a political cause you want their help with.

Whatever it is that gets you to spend your dollars with their competition, they need to know. A good business WANTS to know!

Whether they choose to act on that info or not is up to them.

 

[CraigC]

New York has had gun bans for years and years, the rest of us have never cared before. They've also had armed police forces for at least 200yrs. Somebody sold those guns to them. What has changed? Why have we never cared about boycotting those manufacturers before? How is what goes on in New York affecting OUR rights? How is Armalite selling AR's to city and state police forces affecting OUR rights? It ain't. I'm over it. IMHO, this is misplaced effort and hostility but don't let me stop you from lynching our own.

This is a trivial issue. So again, are you guys telling me you'd let your kids starve and get kicked out of your home to stand up for your principles? You would quit your job if your company started selling widgets to the government of New York? If that's true then the problem is your principles. If not, if you would do no different if you were in their position, then how can you hold it against them?

 

[CraigC]

Did anybody actually read the link?

 

[Robert101]

Bottom line is that I would rather support a gun company that supports our rights - pure and simple. They (corporations) can set policy all they want and I will buy from those that I choose for my personal policy reasons.

 

[taliv]

i think you just don't understand the nature of principles. the entire point of something being a 'principle' is that it is constant. it doesn't cease to become a principle when it becomes costly or difficult.

you should realize that there are many, many men who have already sacrificed their lives for their principles. you may not comprehend it, which is all the more reason you should take care before you insult it.

 

[RPRNY]

Yes. And the link makes it clear that ArmaLite is waffling. They will oppose sales to "enemies of the Second Amendment ", as long as those enemies are nameless. They reserve the right to sell to LEO individuals as well as State entitites that they do not deem likely to be involve in disarmament of the State's residents. A typical corporate vascilation.

There's nothing wrong with people choosing not to do business with the company as a result. Or with writing to ArmaLite to say you are unhappy with their Law Department 's waffle language.

But it would be best to write to NSSF and make it clear that any industry member that continues to do business with any State entity in which laws like the SAFE Act have been passed will be subject to consumer boycott.

However, this should be supplemental to writing to your State and Federal legislators and donating to NRA-ILA and the Second Amendment Foundation among others.

As to CraigC bemoaning continued ill -will towards Ruger and S&W, I beg to differ. Far from counterproductive or useless, such sentiment serves to remind corporate decision makers that the business impact on brand equity from bad decisions to placate the implaccable is tangible and long lasting. Gun owner discrimination advocates want to end, not simply curtail, manufacturers businesses. They cannot be reasoned with nor should they be compromised with. To do so is a betrayal of brand and shareholder value because the end result will be no business, no company and no jobs.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[MachIVshooter]

Armalite says:

I think a bit of clarification is in order.

…

My purpose here is to pass on his apology from the corporate level and to answer the initial question: What is ArmaLite going to do?

…

1. We will not sell to those states which deny it’s honorable citizens the right to own ArmaLite’s.

2. We do not halt sales to individual officers even in problematic states… We are well familiar with the fact that most rifles serving Police Officers are purchased by the officers themselves, and that they shouldn’t be punished for the actions of their political elite.

We consider sales to those sate subdivisions which are not engaged or potentially engaged with disarming its citizens. DNR and Forestry Departments, for instance, sometimes serve in remote areas that conceal drug farms and their officers deserve good hardware.

3. We will not sell to those lower political subdivisions that deny their honorable citizens the right to own ArmaLite’s. Chicago, for instance, prohibits its citizens from owning ArmaLite’s within the city limits so we make no effort to sell into that city. We have many friends on the Chicago Police Department and have continued to sell to them individually.

…

In short, Americans need not worry that ArmaLite is selling to those who betray them.

…

Respectfully,

Mark Westrom
President,
ArmaLite Inc.


I can personally agree with this stance.

For one, many police officers or sheriff's deputies are not on board with the gun control measures. Secondly, if they're buying as private citizens, they're subject to the same restrictions. I'm not exactly sure how Armalite's policy will work in NY, but I know as far as NFA stuff is concerned, the individual officers get no special privileges; post-'86 machine guns require department letter, and other NFA items require the same to be tax exempt. So if Armalite won't sell to the police department and the officers cannot buy the stuff at a local store, then what's the difference?

If Magpul decides to sell to Colorado sheriffs, I won't lament them for it. After all, the sheriffs stood up for us.

Yeah, it'd be nice if all gun companies took the same stance as La Rue and Olympic, but let's face it-most aren't. Be principled in the extreme if you like, but I can tell you that once you've owned a business, you tend to not discriminate too much about where your dollars come from. What good would it do me if I refused to service cars with liberal bumper stickers? Granted, it's not really a problem out here, but the point remains.

Also, a few people "punishing" Armalite for a less extreme stance than La Rue's aren't going to cripple the company; ALL of their rifles are sold for 2013 already.

I have 3 Armalite rifles. Their quality is excellent, and CS is top notch. I will continue to buy from them.

 

[joeschmoe]

Where is Colt on this? Where are Colts made? Should we start a list of prefered manufactuers like LaRue and Pmag? Then instead of spamming them with copied emails we could send them the reciepts of our purchase from companies who support our position. Sales they could have had if they had taken a stronger stand like Larue and Pmag.

IMO, the "list" should be limited to companies not operating from behind enemy lines with clear policies we want others to emulate. Freestates only.

 

[MachIVshooter]

IMO, the "list" should be limited to companies not operating from behind enemy lines with clear policies we want others to emulate. Freestates only.

You're going to have a very narrow selection of firearms to choose from with this policy.

 

[joeschmoe]

That's the idea. A list of those who are industry "leaders" in supporting 2A rights for others to follow.

 

[MachIVshooter]

What are you going to do if they pass federal bans? Refuse to buy from any American company?

 

[Fishbed77]

Here's a question. You run your own business. One of the 20 municipalities you do business with passes a law or ordnance that you disagree with. Are you willing to throw away your business with them over this? What if it threatens your relationship with the other 19? Or do you continue to feed and clothe your family with their money?

CraigC, Armalite is free to sell to sell to whom they want.

I am also free to choose to never buy any more products from Armalite (and encourage all other Americans who value the protection of our rights as enshrined within the 2nd Amendment to do the same), as long as they maintain their current policy.

 

[jerkface11]

Are you willing to throw away your business with them over this?

The government was the one who ruined the relationship not the gun companies.

 

[Skylerbone]

New York has had gun bans for years and years, the rest of us have never cared before.

Craig, you have no idea where any of us have or currently do stand on such issues. Calling everyone hypocrites for mentioning particular company names or acknowledging there are States with restrictions is far beyond your ability to correctly assess. Moreover, it is your opinion on past events that brings forth your conclusions which do not discount facts of the matter. Finally, as Sam and taliv have made abundantly clear, those issues are not our focus. My feelings, a friend to my enemy is my enemy and is counted against me.

 

[joeschmoe]

What are you going to do if they pass federal bans? Refuse to buy from any American company?

Federally they know they can't make it happen, which is why they are pushing the states to do what they can't get at the federal level.
We're talking about what is true now and what we can do about it now. A few preferred companies we can concentrate our money to and vote with dollars for others to see and feel.

These state governments need to see a backlash from every direction possible. Right now jobs and economy are the only thing more important than the "gun debate" nationally and locally. In many ways the politico's are using the "gun debate" to distract from the economy. We need to point it back that way. Dollars and jobs.

LEO associations and police chiefs have supported these stupid laws at the local and state levels for years. Obama & Co love to do these AWB speeches with a background of uniformed cops. Time for uniforms to speak up. They need to see a back lash from thier own rank and file. Not just "ho-hum" because they're exempt so it doesn't concern them. We need it to concern them. Polarize them to our side or the other.

 

[Outlaw Man]

If they can't survive without selling to New York law enforcement, I can't see that they'll survive much longer, anyway.

Admittedly, I've seen ONE Armalite for every hundred Bushmasters or S&Ws I've seen, but the market for AR-15s in "free" states is enormous compared to NY law enforcement. Which will hurt them more if the sales stop?

I don't wish anyone ill, particularly those factory workers who, like the NY police, didn't come up with this policy. Someone's likely to suffer for this. I wish that weren't the case, but i'd rather see a few suffer now by losing their jobs than the whole country suffer later by living in tyranny.

And yes, I would quit my job (or close my business, if i had one) over principles. Otherwise, they're just ideas.

 

[nyresq]

Not that it matters to those on this forum who bash cops no matter what, but FYI, several Police Chiefs and Sheriffs in NY have already publicly stated they WILL NOT enforce the NY safe act and are calling for its repeal. Along with that, they have also supported local county officials who have passed resolutions to not enforce or even recognize the SAFE act...

Heres a link for those who cant google http://www.nysheriffs.org/articles/sheriffs%E2%80%99-response-ny-safe-act

But go on bashing ALL the cops in NY, according to all the experts here, every Chief and Sheriff was standing next to Coumo cheering for him when he passed it... Except that wasnt the case at all. But lets not let facts ruin the fun!!

Maybe check some facts first. Outside of NYC and Long Island, almost every other county in NY state has already, or is in the process of, passing resolutions to repeal the SAFE act or ignore it.

But please, let the bashing continue, cops suck blah blah blah, no one should sell to them cause NY politicians screwed the people, blah blah blah.

 

[joeschmoe]

Not that it matters to those on this forum who bash cops no matter what...

But go on bashing ALL the cops in NY, according to all the experts here, every Chief and Sheriff was standing next to Coumo cheering for him when he passed it... Except that wasnt the case at all. But lets not let facts ruin the fun!!
Maybe check some facts first. Outside of NYC and Long Island, almost every other county in NY state has already, or is in the process of, passing resolutions to repeal the SAFE act or ignore it.
But please, let the bashing continue, cops suck blah blah blah, no one should sell to them cause NY politicians screwed the people, blah blah blah.

Obama Assault weapons speech.
Should these cops get special privlages to buy guns the citizens don't?