Armed on a Backpacking Trip

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KUNGFUHIPPIE - "My lab partner from school is facing misdemeanor charges for packing in a 1911 on a california hike. When his brother broke his leg and the ranger looked in backpacks for a firstaid kit he found the gun."


That is one badge heavy POS Ranger!!

I wonder if your friend gave the Ranger permission to search his backpack??? If not, that was an illegal "search and seizure."

Yep, if you're gonna carry a handgun in the boonies without a CCW, make sure it is an open carry!!

(I always carried openly anyway, as it has never made sense to me to carry a gun packed away in a backpack, where I could not immediately get to it in an emergency. But that's just me. (I frankly could not give one flat damn what some bunch of liberal, scaredy cat yuppie backpackers thought of me upon seeing my holstered handgun. ;) )

L.W.
 
When I was an explorer scout I did Philmont without a tent, as did all of my troop. We took a 1 rainfly and 1 ground cloth per 2 people. First night it rained so hard the trench around the 'tent' flodded, the stakes were pulling out and I ended up sharing my sleeping bag... my buddy John used a down bag and it got soaked. When morning came we had the groundcloth wrapped around us like a boat. No fun. Little sleep.

Took us several days to 'dry out' (in fact some of us got 'trench foot' from it being so wet) but from then on, NOONE could spot our 'camp'...because we moved to the trees.

A 'jungle' hammock and a rainfly (or several stacked in layers) makes a dandy little shelter/sleeping area. Remember to tie yourself into the hammock with a bit of paracord. Also makes a nice camp chair/drying rack.

Notes: there are no trees above treeline. A hammock can be suddenly useless at 14,000 feet. Not a good idea for winter camping as you expose yourself to the elements too much.

Water filtration is now mandatory where ever you go, it wasn't when I was a kid. Drink a lot. Altitude sickness can kill you.

A gun might not be for 'everyone' but like a rain fly, 'everyone' doesn't need one. Water purification and dry socks on the other hand, are a must have.

As far as cotton goes... I liked old jungle fatigues (ripstop) as pants, they kept the bugs off and even if they got wet they dried out in minutes. Ditto for 'jungleboots,' I swore by them as a a kid. There are better, more useful hi-tech and low tech fabrics and gear out there, a mix of both is usually a good thing.

Food tastes better, esp hot food, exponentially proportional to how cold wet miserable and hungry you are.

PS Didn't mean to come off as the 'be all know all' of roughing it, or back packing in general, but many an episode of "I shouldn't be alive" started off with a couple knuckled headed guys trying to outmacho each other. Don't play that game.

Lots of good info here for newbies and veteran 'packers.
 
70lbs is just about right for a 7 to 10 day backpack for me. This is not target weight but actual. Which means full water bottles, boots laced on, revolver and extra loads, trail snacks... I have done MANY 70+ pound hikes for days on end in some rugged country. If you start in good shape you carry the load pretty well. I've been able to get my pack weight down to the upper 50's after years of refining but even when I was a punny 120lb youngin I was humping 70 pound external frame packs. Anyway I would NEVER not carry and I would also never carry an auto; Revolver all the way. I go into the big grizzly country so it is usually a .41 or 44mag for me but .357 is just about right for most game and protection purposes. Also make sure your firearm is not in your pack but on your person (Mr. bear is not going to wait for you to dig it out of your pack). I used to rig one stationary holster to my pack's hip belt and have another in my top flap easily accessable so on breaks or lunch or camp site scouts I could still be wearing. Anyway way to go for getting out and doing it. Backpacking is the #1 top hardcore outdoor activity for many, so enjoy the heck out fo it.
 
Getting Back On Topic

You have to balance your weapon selection based on weight vs. mission.

IMHO, you need portability and power to handle 90% of the problems you might face. Those needs are best served by a 3" Ruger SP101 in .357. They supposedly come factory sighted to hit POA with 158gr bullets, but you will have to experiment. Loaded with JHP or SWC ammo that it likes, this pistol should serve well for defense against anything short of bears. It should also be accurate enough to put small game in the pot. At about 27oz, it has enough weight to make it comfortable when shooting. It is also compact and light enough not to make you regret taking it along.

Listen to everyone who has told you your proposed pack is too heavy. I did a 70 mile trek at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico when I was 14. I had a top of the line backpback, but at 58lbs, it nearly killed me.
 
One point I'd like to make -- hunting (or foraging) and backpacking really aren't compatible. Backpacking is all about travelling, going from point A to point B. You'll find it takes all your time and effort to do that. You'll walk eight to ten hours a day to pile up any mileage.

Hunting is about sitting still or moving slooooly, and going where the game takes you, not where the trail takes you.

It is a mistake therefore to lay out a backpacking trip and expect to hunt or fish on the way. If you want to hunt or fish, plan to hike into one area, set up a more or less permanent camp, and work out from it.
 
I agree with everyone stating that 70lbs is way too much.

I used to do this type of stuff a lot... both in Washington state and here in Arizona.

After much experimenting, maybe 500 miles of trekking, and no shots fired (but 4 critter encounters: 2 bear, 2 mountain lion), I have a set of gear that with food and clothing weighs in at about 40 pounds for a 5 day trip. Water sold separately.:neener:

In AZ, I don't need a tent. A tarp works fine as an emergency rain shelter if needed. I have a light sleeping bag, a roll-out air mattress to insulate me from the ground's cold, and a tarp that I either sleep on top of (for further insulation) when the weather is nice, or I string it between 2 trees as a pup tent in poor weather.

I have 50 feet of rope. I have one change of clothes that I alternate wearing and airing out when pitching camp for the evening. Really long trips I will wash one set, then the other, on alternate days. Only did one trip like that.

My firearm of choice is a 5-shot Ruger sp101 3" in .357mag.

I also carry a CRKT KISS Tanto fixed blade knife, and a Gerber multitool. Firemaking tools, a backpacking stove with 2 fuel cells. That's it.
 
That is one badge heavy POS Ranger!!

I wonder if your friend gave the Ranger permission to search his backpack??? If not, that was an illegal "search and seizure."
Click to expand...

No, here he was a "nice" ranger. He didn't drag the guy out in cuffs or call swat or shoot him...

The lab partner (notice I didn't say friend) never lacks in stupedity. He told the ranger "the firstaid kit is in the bottom of my bag" (right below the pistol)

He also told me before the trial when I told him to Lawyer-up, "I'll just get a ticket, pay a fine or something. It's not a big deal"

Thank God the judge was nice enough to tell him if found guilty he's looking at 6 months in jail and that he'd better get a lawyer cause his (lack of) defense was gonna hurt him. And that only because he didn't use the gun is he not getting charged with a felony.

If he'd of gotten a lawyer he could have gotten a deal. Basically ignorance of the law is not a defense. So as far as hiking goes, which I love to do (in the summer) know all the rules, laws, etc. before hand.
 
"My lab partner from school is facing misdemeanor charges for packing in a 1911 on a california hike. When his brother broke his leg and the ranger looked in backpacks for a firstaid kit he found the gun."


I just assumed because he said Eastern Sierras, he was talking about the Nevada side. Of course I also assumed proper permits all around, does that really need saying? Maybe these days, it does. BTW in CA even open carry means the gun has to be unloaded while being carried in a public place.

I believe it is legal to carry a handgun unloaded in a locked hard case inside your backpack in CA, separate from the ammunition, because you are legally permitted to have an uncased loaded gun at your campsite (it is a temporary residence). The caveat being that this does not apply to areas within parks. That doesn't help you much out on the trail, but when things go BUMP in the night, you can bump back with authority.

I am not a lawyer, the foregoing does not constitute any kind of legal advice.
 
BTW in CA even open carry means the gun has to be unloaded while being carried in a public place.
Click to expand...

wrong,

12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
Click to expand...

If you're carrying a loaded gun from the local gunsmith to your car that's bad. Out in unincorporated places (like Sierra Nevada) you're o.k. Unless hunting, then posessing a firearm that is not legal for hunting is bad

i.e. revolver with 4" barrel while deer hunting with your rem. 700.

try;
opencarry.org
and
packing.org for more details.
 
KUNGFUHIPPIE - "No, here he was a "nice" ranger. He didn't drag the guy out in cuffs or call swat or shoot him..."

K.F.H., I gotta respectfully disagree.

Under those circumstances, given that your partner was NOT drunk, or high, or waving (brandishing) a gun around, threatening anyone on the trail, or otherwise being irresponsible, given also that he was injured, there was no reason the Ranger could not have just overlooked the violation. He could have just given a warning and said "Keep the handguns in sight, etc." Instead he chose to arrest your partner.

Just as a cop doesn't HAVE to issue you a ticket for a traffic violation, the Ranger could have chosen to disregard the "concealed pistol" in a back pack way out in the boonies. Extenuating circumstances and all that.

I say again, a badge heavy POS Ranger.

Just my opinion.

L.W.
 
Yeah,that nasty ranger was a jerk, he did his job and upheld the law. It's not Lab Partner's fault for breaking the law. A normal human being would have not given a damn about the pistol since he was responding to a "broken-leg" call, not a "crazy guy with gun" call. I agree that the ranger could/should have looked the other way. But to the ranger's defense I must say he was upholding the law, his job, no matter how stuped the law is, you can't blame the ranger for Lab Partner being a moron.

I go hiking in a "wilderness area" next to a national forest. You can open carry in the national forest but not in the Wilderness Area, :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: , unless the mountain lions in the wilderness area are vegitarians and B.G.s only go to national forests open carry should be allowed. However my gun stays home while I hike there. I have written letters and ofter spoken up about it to pro and anti gun people. I explain that pepper spray has never been proven on lions/bears and you shouldn't trust your, or your family's well being to a can of pressurized seasoning.
 
KUNGFUHIPPIE - "I go hiking in a "wilderness area" next to a national forest. You can open carry in the national forest but not in the Wilderness Area, - "

Kungfuhippie, okay, have it your way. I'll not debate anymore with you about the Ranger doing his job, etc. Your partner was a moron who didn't know the law so stuck a pistol in his backpack. Another John Dillinger, Bonnie & Clyde all wrapped into one. Good thing the Ranger arrested him before he gunned down everyone on the trail, broken leg and all. Good job, Ranger.

(I wonder if the Ranger goes after the well armed meth cookers up in the remote areas with the same dedication and zeal in arresting you partner???)

That said, I haven't lived in the People's Republik of Kalif., for nine years. But when I lived there and hiked, hunted, backpacked up in the Sierra a lot... it was NOT illegal to carry OPENLY in a designated Wilderness Area. Perhaps the communistnazis who run Kalif. have managed to get that changed, too. (???)

I KNOW 100% it is not illegal to carry openly (or concealed) in an Idaho U.S. designated Wilderness, i.e., River Of No Return Wilderness, etc.

FWIW.

L.W.
 
My taurus tracker 357 magnum is standard equipment on any backpacking trip I go on. I'm usually not out for more than 2 days, but here in Colorado we have hungry black bears, mountain lions, and some shady 2-legged charachters that we sometimes encounter.:D I figure the weight of the gun is worth peace of mind and security. I open carry on the right hip when backpacking.
 
Leanwolf,
don't read into it too much. I think we're almost on the same page. In most unicorporated places it is legal to open carry, just some places where the nature-nazi granola eating hippie types like to go (wilderness areas) but not BLM land etc.

(trying to keep to THR I refrain from using appropriate words to describe said Ranger)

I said that yes the ranger was a jerk. That he should have not wasted everyone's time with this crap. At least that's what I thought I'd said. I also understand why he did it. But the "why" doesn't make him any less of a jerk. I'm just not gonna rag too much on him. For all he knew Lab-Partner and his brother (the one with the broken leg) were up there checking on their meth-lab/pot farm when the brother broke his leg.

I really hate stuped laws like this one. The whole point of my original was that if hiking in California you'd better make damn sure you know and abide by the laws or a broken leg can land your butt in jail. I wish that people here(cops etc.) would not be so uptight about these situations. But as far as Ranger Ned and other LEO's around here go this guy was lax. He didn't arrest Lab-Partner, he wrote him a ticket with a court date and evidence was taken (not sure if gun was confiscated, probably) Other LEO's around here would have raised a lot more hell about it. Taken gun, handcuffed both, let-um spend a night in local jail, had a high bail set, called the local news crews to do a story of "some evil white trash guy had a gun, probably drugy or poacher"

So, I'll shut-up now. I just don't want everyone here to believe I just blindly side with the local Barney Fife.
 
Here in Colorado, its 100% legal to carry open or concealed in national forest's and wilderness areas. The joy's of living in a free state.:D I do get some interesting stares from the yuppies on the trail from time to time, I usually open carry my 357 when hiking. But like the other poster said, I dont give a damn what they think.:D
 
I avoid most designated "Wilderness Areas" in the south as most are in pretty bad shape with windthrow and pine beetle damage so bad that you are constantly climbing over or under downed timber. A big time pace buster. We carry a 4 man tent for four men, split into four pieces (poles, fly, tent body, and ground cloth). It works well, especially against rain (not a cheap Walmart tent, mind you, but a North Face with a real fly that really protects against blowing rain). We go communal as much as possible. With four men, you only need two flash lights, one machette (we use a woodsman's pal as you can use it also as a shovel), one stove, one or two pumps (I personally like Sweet Water, my friends Katadyn is not reliable, but my personal Katy sipper works fine), etc. If we plan long hikes, we set up drop boxes along the trail. Ordinance crates near a road 40 feet off the trail and lightly covered with leaves work just fine and keep you from loading yourself down. The only trouble is retrieving them when you are off the trail and frankly don't want anything other than a double cheeseburger, hashbrowns all the way, and a cold Coke at the Wafflehouse.

Personally, I like cotton for hiking, but then I hike in Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Alabama mountains. Even during the winter it is okay. We did a 45 mile hike in 2 1/2 days called the Frozen Chosen because it never got above freezing (pulled the dog into the sleeping bag on that one and both of us were happy!) where the water turned to slush in the packs and did just fine. Of course, I use woolen socks and carry a poncho and pack cover (a 55 gallon contractor bag from Walmart).

Ash
 
My 5 day pack weight is about 35lbs. In the off season I carry my .45 ACP 1911. During hunting season I have a 870 LT-20 with an advanced technologies folding stock.

About water purification, don't even consider drink unpurfied water. I'm not sure how clean it was "back in the old days". My fiancies' father passed on tuesday from complications of a colostomy operation he had 30 years ago while in college, he caught giardia from unpurified water. Beaver have been crapping in water since the day of creation, giardia didn't just suddenly appear a decade ago.
 
If you've even been to a third world country you'll never drink unpurified water again.

I keep my pack down to about 30-40lbs Last hike I did was about 14 miles, a short weekend trip. I brought the bare minimum and with enough water for two days (didn't have a reliable water source) my pack was about 35lbs including cold weather gear. I do advocate the ripstop pants. I sat on a sharp rock on the first night and ripped my jeans from the top of my back pocket to my knee. Had no way to fix um:banghead:

The fun was telling all the nosey hippie types who wanted to know how i ripped my pants that a mountain lion attacked me but after one bit of my butt he thought twice:neener:

Apartently if your a hippie-dippy type (the type that got open carry banned there) it's okay to not obey the posted leash law because you dog is better than my dog:fire:
 
No mini emergency sewing kit in the pack? Fer shame fer shame... :D

All it takes is a few feet of braided fishing line and a needle. I like the fishing line becasue it is near impossible to break. Once you sew something with it it stays sewed. I also carry a few safety pins. I've gotten out of several torn this or that emergencies with them. ANother thing I used to carry would be the little suture packets that come with the needle already attached to some 00 silk thread. I used to get them from the Doc in sickbay but it's been a while since then. :p
 
I am curious if anyone has gone on adventure backpacking trips whilst carrying a firearm.
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When backpacking in Alaska, we always carried one or more 12 gauge shotguns, depending on the size of the group. Sometimes there were handguns along as well. Shotguns were of course carried in the hands except when up above the snow line, where they were just lashed to the outside of the pack. Seemed like an excessive burden until you get down the other side of the pass and into thick brush country with dinner-plate sized bear tracks in the trail you are walking on :uhoh:

Back in those days, weight was no concern - at least for the guys. 90 to 120 pounds was considered normal. If it would fit in the pack or could be tied on the outside, then it could go. But a lot of times we were packing into wilderness cabins and were taking things like rolls of tar paper, chainsaw gas, sheets of plywood (cut into 4 pieces and screwed together), cast iron skillets, nails, etc .... most of which of course stayed at or was built into the cabins.

We were young and tough in those days ;)

Last backpacking trip I took a few years ago, I carried a 4" .357 DA revolver in OWB holster on my belt. I just slid it around to about 1:00 or 2:00 position while carrying the pack. The load bearing hip belt goes below the pants belt (on the hips where it should be) and underneath the holster (between the holster and pants). Easily accessible and not really a problem except when putting on and taking off the pack.

oh BTW ... except for plenty of extra socks, I've learned to only take the clothes that I'm wearing plus whatever extra layers that might be needed for warmth. I've never yet changed clothes on a camping trip. If something rips, just replace it with one of the extra layers or wear something over it if it is cool enough. Or just enjoy the extra ventilation :p

Back in the old days, I used to have a pair of surplus wool pants which I wore with suspenders while backpacking. Those worked great, and were virtually indestructible until they finally got sort of see-though-ish thin.
 
If you want to find the need for a firearm on this trip & you'll be the one carrying it, why does your buddy care? Besides, it's his rear end you'll probably be protecting if you need it since you'll be together....:scrutiny:
 
Having lived, backpacked, climbed, and hunted in the eastern Sierra Nevada for more than 25 years I think you should be able to be self contained and eat very well for 7 days for around 50lbs.

The best deer hunting I ever experanced was solo mutiple-day packpack hunts for muleys above 10,000 ft,(Zone D-8, X9-a, X9b, and X-12) carrying in less than 30 lbs, sometimes >100lbs out!

Unless all you have is a loincloth and a piece of obsidian, Id rather you not gather anything eccept the ocasional wild onion, current, or pine nut. The eastern Sierra Nevada is much to delicate for a everybody from the very close LA area to be tromping around tearing stuff up, and there aint that much there.

As a ski-bum, after being layed off from the ski area I did live on trout during the summer for a couple of years.

The only reason I ever carried a firearm in this area was to hunt (deer, mnt quail, chukar, grouse, ducks, and geese), and while working for a couple of pack outfits.

I never carried one while strictly backpacking or climbing in the eastern Sierra Nevada.

The mountain ranges in the desert to the east are another story, I often packed while out prospecting or arrowheading.
 
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