Vern Humphrey
Member
Once you've packed it through the Mahoosic Notch in Maine, or across Spirit Creek Valley, you'll have a different perspective on "need."
Armed on a Backpacking Trip
- Thread starter ripcurlksm
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Once you've packed it through the Mahoosic Notch in Maine, or across Spirit Creek Valley, you'll have a different perspective on "need."
Guns_and_Labs
Member
I've been up and down the Sierra Nevada range many times. In fact, I used to lead groups in and out. For a six day trip, with fishing planned, I'd carry about 45 lbs skin out, 50 if I was the leader (extra stuff for newbies, moleskin). For six days, I'd usually take five days of food, figuring that there's ALWAYS gorp leftover if the fish aren't cooperating.
A handgun was always part of the packing.
[And, yes, they are legal for open carry in designated Wilderness Areas, unless said Wilderness Area is within a National Park.]
Lately it's been an S&W 329 with heavy "Keith" .44 Specials from Buffalo Bore. Never a 1911, though a Lightweight Commander would do nicely. Usually carried in a crossdraw that can slip from hipbelt to belt on stops... though I also had a homemade safepacker that worked nicely.
Duck Lake is a very nice area. Haven't been there for a while, though.
A handgun was always part of the packing.
[And, yes, they are legal for open carry in designated Wilderness Areas, unless said Wilderness Area is within a National Park.]
Lately it's been an S&W 329 with heavy "Keith" .44 Specials from Buffalo Bore. Never a 1911, though a Lightweight Commander would do nicely. Usually carried in a crossdraw that can slip from hipbelt to belt on stops... though I also had a homemade safepacker that worked nicely.
Duck Lake is a very nice area. Haven't been there for a while, though.
Matthew Temkin
Member
I have done extensive backpacking including quite a few week long trips in the Adirondacks.
I always carried a firearm, usually a J frame .38.
The only time I ever had to fire a shot was to scare off a bear.
I always carried a firearm, usually a J frame .38.
The only time I ever had to fire a shot was to scare off a bear.
Joe Demko
Member
I can't think of any real reason to prefer a revolver over an auto save that it is possible to do something like carry one of the lightweight revolvers in .357 magnum. Right offhand, no autopistol/cartridge combo suggests itself that would offer the same level of power at the same low weight. In backpacking, saving a few ounces here and there really adds up.
gulogulo1970
Member
I have carried a Glock 27 when camping but now I carry a Ruger 3" SP-101 when hiking.
70 Pounds is too heavy, IMO. The heaviest pack I've ever needed was a trip in Big Bend in the summer where there was no water. So, all of our water had to be packed in even then our packs got up to about 55-60 pounds. Normally in Colorado where water can be found and filtered 45-50 pounds was about all I ever needed. And that is pretty heavy after miles of trail and elevation changes.
70 Pounds is too heavy, IMO. The heaviest pack I've ever needed was a trip in Big Bend in the summer where there was no water. So, all of our water had to be packed in even then our packs got up to about 55-60 pounds. Normally in Colorado where water can be found and filtered 45-50 pounds was about all I ever needed. And that is pretty heavy after miles of trail and elevation changes.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Revolvers are more verasatile as trail guns. For example, a .357 can handle powder-puff .38 special loads, my favorite being a hollow-based 148 wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye at around 650 fps. This is a great small game load.
Or I can have 180 grain (or even heavier) hard cast bullets driven at 1250 fps, which is what Phil Shoemaker recommends for bear defense.
Or i can have anything in between.
And revolvers don't spit your empty brass all over the landscape.
Or I can have 180 grain (or even heavier) hard cast bullets driven at 1250 fps, which is what Phil Shoemaker recommends for bear defense.
Or i can have anything in between.
And revolvers don't spit your empty brass all over the landscape.
ZeSpectre
Member
Okay, I'll admit a long time wheelgun bias first and get over it
Why I'd prefer a wheelgun for the great outdoors (a short essay by ZeSpectre).
I won't deny that semi-auto pistols can function very well in a rugged, outdoors, environment. The excellent service given by the 1911 under every imaginable condition of combat has demonstrated beyond a doubt that a semi-auto can perform under poor conditions. However, I still prefer a good, old-fashioned, wheelgun for my backcountry adventures.
Part of the preference begins with ammunition. The variety of loads available for my favorite gun (the .357 Magnum) is absolutely astounding and it can be tailored to almost any conceivable situation where a handgun would be reasonably used (and a few situations where a handgun might not be the most reasonable choice).
Another part of the ammunition consideration is how one recovers from a dud round (due to anything from bad primers to moisture from being outdoors). In a revolver you simply pull the trigger (or cock the hammer and pull the trigger) again.
Then there is the mechanical simplicity of a revolver. Without opening or disassembling anything you can give most revolvers a pretty complete visual inspection for functionality and while I am not advocating bad maintenance behavior, an un-lubed and grunged up revolver (say one dropped in a mud puddle after a day in the rain..umm, can’t imagine where I got that one from <grin>) will be far more likely to operate without a hitch. This can become very important if you are out for multiple days in bad weather.
Another possibility (though admittedly a remote one) is that the gun might need to be used in a contact situation. I read a story quite a while back where a man was jumped by a cougar and had just about enough time to pull his revolver, jam it in the cat’s side, and start pulling the trigger. The cat was killed by the third or fourth round and the man survived. I am uncertain if a semi-auto would have fired more than once in this situation but I know a revolver will.
A final note specifically about carrying a pistol when you are out on horseback for an extended period. It is absolutely amazing how much jolting you endure on horseback without even realizing it. As a result I have had the damnedest things happen to semi-auto pistols including a magazine ejecting (total loss, never found it), slides winding up half out of battery (and the in chamber round dropped out) and sights slammed WAY out of zero. Add a couple of days of persistent rain and your lube can vanish and then you start finding the horsehair gummed up in everything.
Better holsters and improved carry techniques cut way down on this sort of thing but I never had any of that kind of thing happen with a revolver.
Just my opinion, well worth what you paid for it.
ripcurlksm
Member
Good thoughts there ZeSpectre
10 Ring Tao
Member
I've been on several 70+ mile backpacking trips through scouting, both as a scout and leader. The reason your friend obcesses about weight is that every pound really does count. The less you have to think about/deal with/worry about your pack and its effects on your ability to enjoy your hike, the better.
That said, as long as I've been able, I've taken along my glock 19, no extra mags. Lighter weight and high capacity. I definitely wouldn't take an all steel gun, or extra mags. Weight is important, and so is being armed. That means compromise with a lighter gun and no extra mags.
That said, as long as I've been able, I've taken along my glock 19, no extra mags. Lighter weight and high capacity. I definitely wouldn't take an all steel gun, or extra mags. Weight is important, and so is being armed. That means compromise with a lighter gun and no extra mags.
SamTuckerMTNMAN
Member
bunch of wimps
physical freedom starts with being able to free yourself from the grocery store.
"Proving you can rough it" is a silly way to die.
and pissing on yourself in some old folks home is a great one, let me tell you. How about a car wreck, or maybe cancer....
I've lived in the mountains for long periods of time, some of it very hungry. My mentors did the same thing. You don't need huge backpacks, you do need faith, an understanding of your skills and the environment, and some blessing from the creator.
If you are still reading this thread, author, send me a note.
Those little .22 's are great (Hi Standard revolver the best!! ). Check the laws.
FIND A TEACHER, SOMEONE YOU CAN LEARN FROM, ASK QUESTIONS. Spend some time even living with them. Trade help with work. MAKE the time, even if short. Go rent Jeremiah Johnson, the movie
HA!
physical freedom starts with being able to free yourself from the grocery store.
"Proving you can rough it" is a silly way to die.
and pissing on yourself in some old folks home is a great one, let me tell you. How about a car wreck, or maybe cancer....
I've lived in the mountains for long periods of time, some of it very hungry. My mentors did the same thing. You don't need huge backpacks, you do need faith, an understanding of your skills and the environment, and some blessing from the creator.
If you are still reading this thread, author, send me a note.
Those little .22 's are great (Hi Standard revolver the best!!
). Check the laws. FIND A TEACHER, SOMEONE YOU CAN LEARN FROM, ASK QUESTIONS. Spend some time even living with them. Trade help with work. MAKE the time, even if short. Go rent Jeremiah Johnson, the movie
HA!
kungfuhippie
Member
I've been on short "survival hikes" where you took the very basics (sleeping bag, water purification, a a little food just in case. Nothing too extreme. I know I can do that, I know I could disapear in the mountains around here and get by with a good knife and a pistol. But I enjoy having a sleeping bag, matches, a stove, food, change of socks, etc. I suggest if you wanna try the survivalist stuff find someone who knows their stuff and go with them and learn before you do a major excursion on your own. Dying from cancer in your old age means you beat darwin, that's a good thing.
Back when I did a lot of hunting, backpacking and camping my favorite sidearm was a S&W 4" Mod 10. Was a good compromise between a .22 for small game and a larger gun for protection. Would carry the two first rounds light loads for small game(my most common use), the other four rounds was full power rounds.
No gun will meet all needs, you have to look at what you will need the most. If you only need self defense then a much larger gun may be needed. If you expect to pick up small game, you will need a smaller gun. Trying to clean up a small rabbit hit with a full power handgun round is not very easy or fun. Head shots are not as easy in the wild as most books, movies or your ability at the range will lead you to believe.
No gun will meet all needs, you have to look at what you will need the most. If you only need self defense then a much larger gun may be needed. If you expect to pick up small game, you will need a smaller gun. Trying to clean up a small rabbit hit with a full power handgun round is not very easy or fun. Head shots are not as easy in the wild as most books, movies or your ability at the range will lead you to believe.
Ukraine Train
Member
I went to the Green Mtn. Nat'l Forest in Vermont a couple years ago with two buddies. I carried a Mossberg 500 with folding stock and slugs (lots of bears). We were only out 3 days so the weight wasn't a big concern. We met a ranger on the trail and he made a joke about us coming prepared when he saw it. you can see it in this picture behind my neck. I had it tied with rope on a bow so I could quickly pull it down without taking my pack off.
Bwana John
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If we are talking Duck Lake, over Duck Pass it is 5 miles to the pass from the trailhead, and 1 mile to the lake from the pass, with ~2k' elevation gain. The trail is very busy, it is probley the busyest in the Mammoth Lakes region. Mammoth Lakes Pack Outfit goes over the pass almost every day, and the trail is kind of ugly from so much horse traffic
. Foraging at Duck Lake consists of running out to "Whiskey Creek" in Mammoth Lakes for dinner.I shot a little muley between Purple Lake and Ram Lakes in ~1995 (~4 miles past Duck Lake).
If you HAVE to go to Duck Lake, I would recomend the Deer Lakes Loop, Starting at the Lake George/Red Cone trailhead to Deer Lakes, over Deer Pass to Duck Pass, and out to the Coldwater trailhead.
And according to old packers it is "DUK" lake and "DUK" pass after a outcrop that looks like those letters with in the snow early season.
I would suggest the Laurel/Bloody trailhead, and go over Bloody Pass (2nd class, x-countrying) to Ram Lakes. Goes to the same general area but a much more remote route. Even better try the best (IMHO) offtrail loop in the Minnerets area, start at the Agnew Meadows trailhead, to Shadow Lake, Ediza Lake, Iceburg Lake, Cecil Lake, Minneret Lake and out to Devils Postpile. I have shot some BIG muleys within a couple of miles of this route.
Joe Demko
Member
That strikes me as a bad idea for a whole bunch of reasons. Did you ever actually try living on the stuff for a day or two? I can easily see such a coarse, unfamiliar foodstuff_especially during a time of stress_ giving the consumer a world class case of the runs. The risk of diarrhea is aggravated by the fact that dry dog food is not subject to the type of health and sanitation rules during its production that human food products must meet. I'd definitely want to see a bacterial assay on the stuff before I recommended it as a survival food to some kids. More soldiers have been sh*t to death than shot to death in the history of the world. Dehydration due to diarrhea is a far more dangerous thing than going without food for a few days or even a week or more.
Also, unless things have changed, brains, spinal cords, and other such meat by-products are used in pet food. Prions, anyone?
kungfuhippie
Member
And yet my dog is still very dumb. All those brain should make him smarter.
bnelson2943
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One more story
I posted this story sometime back but it applies here.
Ever since an incident I had 15 or more years ago I don't go into the woods unarmed. If firearms are not allowed I go somewhere else. I was backpacking with my wife in Montana and we were three days away from any trail head. We had made camp and went for a day hike to explore. When we got back to camp there were two slimy looking guys going through our stuff. I had a Dan Wesson .357 in a shoulder holster that was in my hand before they even knew I was there. I told them to drop everything and leave. They had most of our gear packed up and were going to leave us with nothing. Had I not been armed???????? Anyway, tree hugging outdoor lovers be damned, in the wilderness there is only one law and survival is a individual sport.
I posted this story sometime back but it applies here.
Ever since an incident I had 15 or more years ago I don't go into the woods unarmed. If firearms are not allowed I go somewhere else. I was backpacking with my wife in Montana and we were three days away from any trail head. We had made camp and went for a day hike to explore. When we got back to camp there were two slimy looking guys going through our stuff. I had a Dan Wesson .357 in a shoulder holster that was in my hand before they even knew I was there. I told them to drop everything and leave. They had most of our gear packed up and were going to leave us with nothing. Had I not been armed???????? Anyway, tree hugging outdoor lovers be damned, in the wilderness there is only one law and survival is a individual sport.
kungfuhippie
Member
Wow, thank God you had a gun. Just imagine how bad it would have been if you didn't. This is why carrying a firearm should be as common as bringing a sleeping bag. Going out into the boonies on a hike means self reliance, weither you're playing hunter gatherer or bring dehydrated fancies. You must depend on yourself, Ranger Ned won't come save you, his job is just to locate you corpse.
I use to think you could get "away" from everything out in the woods. But since then I've stumbled across pot farms, and other less desireables doing God knows what out in the middle of nowhere. My sister is a social worker and a few times they've gone to collect an abused kid from someone living in a cave or trailer in the middle of the desert. Their directions include go 15 miles down dirt road and turn left at the cactus that looks like bob hope. Head west until you see a large boulder and go right to the...
I mean people that are living off the grid, I don't even know who would know to call in an abuse report. So yes protection from all predators 2 legs and up is very important.
MHBushmaster
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My compromise vote would be for a revolver, minimum caliber .357
I'm sure the .22 is nice and handy, but why?
The .357 can be used to handlle 2 or 4 legged problems, and the revolver design makes it really simple and durable. Stainless steel would be a bonus for less maintenance, even though it weighs like 15% more than traditional metals.
The optional choice would be a folding stock 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, with an 18" barrel with a smooth-bore barrel, to accept any kind of shot shell (foster slugs, buck, or bird shot) except some sabots. Of course, you sacrifice weight for safety, but safety is always my first concern when out in the wilderness.
Have fun on your backpacking trip! Be safe and take lots of pics.
I'm sure the .22 is nice and handy, but why?
The .357 can be used to handlle 2 or 4 legged problems, and the revolver design makes it really simple and durable. Stainless steel would be a bonus for less maintenance, even though it weighs like 15% more than traditional metals.
The optional choice would be a folding stock 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, with an 18" barrel with a smooth-bore barrel, to accept any kind of shot shell (foster slugs, buck, or bird shot) except some sabots. Of course, you sacrifice weight for safety, but safety is always my first concern when out in the wilderness.
Have fun on your backpacking trip! Be safe and take lots of pics.
SamTuckerMTNMAN
Member
great posts
KUNGFU hippie +1
(whatever +1 is supposed to mean anyway)
about the slimy guys...man, that's no good fo sure. I used to not consider carrying, I was a purist, nature, natural tools, simple. Then I grew up.
no j/k, I respect the purists, really do. We had a rash of shootings and rapes here a few years ago. Couple shot in the head backpacking. Woman taped to a tree and raped, shot. Beatings of hunters by animal rights activists (almost to death)
and so on...
maybe if I was packing light, alone, and practicing good skills, I could deal with the slimy guys in some appropriate way. But with my girl, enjoying the nice gear I saved for a purchased. . . ONE FRIEND OF MINE was dragged out of his tent at night!!!! For real. He beat the guy off with a stick The guy came back later with a knife, I mean, give me a break.
No, give me my piece...
-----------------------
p.s. - the reason I mentioned .22 is because around here you are allowed .22 in parks and forests and np from rangers, I agree its a bit anemic...love my folding .12 ga
KUNGFU hippie +1
(whatever +1 is supposed to mean anyway)
about the slimy guys...man, that's no good fo sure. I used to not consider carrying, I was a purist, nature, natural tools, simple. Then I grew up.
no j/k, I respect the purists, really do. We had a rash of shootings and rapes here a few years ago. Couple shot in the head backpacking. Woman taped to a tree and raped, shot. Beatings of hunters by animal rights activists (almost to death)
and so on...maybe if I was packing light, alone, and practicing good skills, I could deal with the slimy guys in some appropriate way. But with my girl, enjoying the nice gear I saved for a purchased. . . ONE FRIEND OF MINE was dragged out of his tent at night!!!! For real. He beat the guy off with a stick
The guy came back later with a knife, I mean, give me a break.No, give me my piece...
-----------------------
p.s. - the reason I mentioned .22 is because around here you are allowed .22 in parks and forests and np from rangers, I agree its a bit anemic...love my folding .12 ga
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ripcurlksm
Member
"+1" means that you agree with someones post and it saves you from writing your own exact thoughts.
MHBUSHMASTER - "My compromise vote would be for a revolver, minimum caliber .357."
I agree with Mr. MHBushmaster.
Find yourself a GOOD used S&W Model 19 or 66 in 4" barrel. Or, a Ruger Security Six, 4", or, if you were lucky enough, a Colt's Trooper .357, 4".
Buy a good holster (I would go with a simplyrugged.com crossdraw pancake), and practice, practice, practice.
You'll be able to handle the two, or four legged predators you might be unlucky enough to run across out in the boonies.
L.W.
I agree with Mr. MHBushmaster.
Find yourself a GOOD used S&W Model 19 or 66 in 4" barrel. Or, a Ruger Security Six, 4", or, if you were lucky enough, a Colt's Trooper .357, 4".
Buy a good holster (I would go with a simplyrugged.com crossdraw pancake), and practice, practice, practice.
You'll be able to handle the two, or four legged predators you might be unlucky enough to run across out in the boonies.
L.W.
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