Armoured White Tail?

[WVMountainBoy]

I live in south central WV, the deer here are small by anyone's measure. I have to ask why in the world people decide these creatures must be destroyed by uber magnums. If anyone has been to my part of the country they probably know that the land doesn't lend to high range shooting either. I've taken a deer a season (all that can eaten by my house hold) with nothing more powerful than a 30.06, and it was WAY over-kill as the furtherest shot I've taken was 80 yds. My 30/30 has done most of the work and I don't have to track deer more than 50 feet.

My question or quandry is why then when I'm at the gun shop are people buying .300 win mags, .338 lupua, and 7mm Ultra Mags for our white tail. For a long while I gave the benefit of the doubt that these folks were going on hunts for larger games, but after years of hanging out at the same gun store I noticed a trend, those same guns were sold back to the store by the end of the season.

I know that its probably some sense of bigger is better coupled with impulse buying but geesh people...what did that 140 lb deer do to you.

 

[BillyDa59]

If you think animals can't hunt back, you've obviously never seen Jurassic Park. Even Robert Muldoon and his SPAS-12 couldn't defeat ancient beasts. Imagine what another 150 million years of refined predatory instinct looks like.

That's right. Anything short of 4800 ft-lbs, and this monster doesn't even blink.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Look at it this way. Folks are just hedging their bets

Hunting costs more and more money than ever before while at the same time folks like myself have less and less time to do it in. Now if you want to get the most out of your season you'll want to choose a cartridge that allows you to not have to pass any more shots than you can possibly get by with. The old addage it's a lot easier to make a 80yd shoot 400yd rifle than it is to make a 400yd shot with an 80yd rifle comes to mind.

Another thing is a lot of nongunguy hunters buy one bolt action centerfire rifle to cover all the game they may possibly get to hunt, again it's a lot easier to kill a deer with an elk rifle than vise versa.

I don't begrudge magnum shooters one bit, hell that belt doesn't make a magnum really different from another cartridge and in my book there's no such thing as too dead.

Myself I use a 7.62x39

 

[Sunray]

"...why in the world..." They've been duped by years of excellent marketing into thinking they need a magnum. Mind you, I'm convinced that a lot of magnum shooters are trying to compensate for poor shooting skills. You and I both know that a magnum isn't going to fix that any more than a scope will make a rifle that doesn't shoot well with iron sights shoot better.
A 140 pound deer, up here, is a wee thing, up here. 200 pounds isn't unusual. (Miles and miles of corn and soy bean fields. Our deer eat well.) and you still don't need a magnum. Don't need a magnum for an 1800 pound moose either.
"...those same guns were sold back to the store..." Yep. At a loss too. Guy came into the shop I worked in, long ago(early 80's). Going to Africa and just had to have his own .458. Rifle, a Win M70 African, as I recall, comes in with a 20 round box of ammo, guy collects the rifle on a Friday evening. Happy as a clam. Saturday afternoon, he's back with the rifle, 18 rounds and two empties, asking us to sell it. Don't remember what the rifle and ammo was worth, but 20 pieces of brass ran $50Cdn then.

 

[kd7nqb]

As somebody who hunts with a rifle that is proboly too much gun for the deer we get out here and somebody who is in the market for a new deer rifle I think I can provide some help.

I am essentially hunting on spare change. That means that last season I got a $79 Mosin M44 for deer, I know it will work, I know I can do the job with it and I know its too much gun but it fit in my budget.

This year I am ready for something a little fancier and hopefully lighter. However as long as it meets my minimum caliber I dont really care about caliber. So if I happen to find a great deal on some awesome African double rifle then I guess my deer is going to be extra dead. Of course I do worry about meat damage too but for me its all about budget.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Of course I do worry about meat damage too but for me its all about budget.

how much meat damage you do or don't get is purely a function of bullet construction/selection and not cartridge

 

[Double Naught Spy]

but geesh people...what did that 140 lb deer do to you

If you are going to ask this question, then it would pertain to ANY caliber.

Otherwise, dead is dead, be it by a .22 or be a .300 Win Mag. What did that deer do? I don't know, you are engaged in killing the as well. Did it do something to you that made you need to kill it?

I've taken a deer a season (all that can eaten by my house hold) with nothing more powerful than a 30.06, and it was WAY over-kill

But geesh WVMountainBoy, what did all those 140 lb deer do to you? Funny how people think what they use is okay, but anyone who uses anything more powerful is engaged in using too much power, too big of a gun. Season after season you use too much gun, by your own standards, but that is okay because that is you, and yet you are guilty of exactly what you are talking about with people at gun stores. You take the same small deer (which are large compared to our Central Texas 80 pounders, BTW) each season with a gun that is overkill and yet you complain about folks you see at gun stores who are doing the same thing you are, but their standards don't sit well with you. If you think the 30.06 is way overkill, then why haven't you powered down? Why would you use too much power and engage in overkill and the complain about your fellow hunters doing the same thing?

as the furtherest shot I've taken was 80 yds

Not everyone wants to count on getting a close shot.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

For very long shots, it's good to have some energy on the other end.

And, you never know where you may end up. Maybe a trip comes along out west or into Canada, the deer are a bit bigger than the avg whitetail.

And don't forget peer pressure and marketing. That has a lot to do with it.

 

[skidooman603]

To some degree I agree that a 7MM Ultra-Mag and the like is over-kill....however I would rather someone who may be a marginal shot is over-gunned for the sake of recovery of the animal. I've seen too many "sharpshooters" wounding deer lately with pea shooters. Bottom line is to each his own. Just make a good shot no matter the caliber.

 

[usmc1371]

One of the reasons I think you see so many one season old magnums back on the used rack is alot of folks read the mags and watch tv and think they have to ditch the 30-30 thats been working for years and get the newest biggest thing in the store. Then they shoot said new ultra mag and find out that that six dollor round kicks like hell and the deer is still just dead. If a 30-06 is the biggest gun you have ever shot and you think a 338 lupua would be a fun new rifle please let me know when you are going to shoot it WITH OUT the extremly loud muzzle brake, I want to watch you bounce the scope off your head
In the end it comes down to each his own, shoot what you want and don't stand next to the guy with the muzzle brake.

 

[redneck2]

Why? Because it's still (for a while anyway) a free country. I try to worry about me instead of someone else.

I worked in a gun shop for two years. The idiot factor is REAL high.

 

[gunnie]

..."why then when I'm at the gun shop are people buying .300 win mags, .338 lupua, and 7mm Ultra Mags for our white tail"...

they're too lazy to gut'em?

gunnie

 

[Rembrandt]

I suppose a larger caliber can compensate for a poorly placed shot. Deer around here can get twice the size of those tiny southern deer. Not uncommon to see bucks in the 300-400lbs range.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I get you. I live in Southwest - VA and deer here are pretty much the same.

I killed my first deer with a borrowed 7x57 Mauser. By today's standards, you would think that the bullet would barely drip out of the barrel upon firing. The 30-30 I used to use is largely the same.
Now, I only bowhunt with a recurve.

There are lots of different reasons to carry a magnum. I prefer that to all the guys around these parts with spotlights and 22 rifles making poor shots. At least the magnums kill them right now.

Game animals deserve a quick death. Magnums do that. I'm okay with that.

 

[DIM]

Hey have you shot deer close range with sabot 12 gauge slugs the ones design for shots up to 200 yards. Don’t ask me why but it gets the job done, I had one with head shot 30 yards, that deer didn’t make a single step.

 

[Art Eatman]

Some of it's American culture: "Bigger is better!" Doesn't matter if it's guns, cars or houses.

A lot of it is hype from the gun magazines and from gunstore folks who do more sales effort than they do hunting. Think $$$$$.

 

[Slamfire]

They've been duped by years of excellent marketing into thinking they need a magnum. Mind you, I'm convinced that a lot of magnum shooters are trying to compensate for poor shooting skills. You and I both know that a magnum isn't going to fix that any more than a scope will make a rifle that doesn't shoot well with iron sights shoot better.

I agree. Gun magazines are just shills for the industry. Articles are paid infomercials. The constant drum beat of "you need a magnum" has an effect on behavior.

 

[CZ223]

KD

The OP is clearly not talking about you nor anyone else who hunts with a Mil-surp type rifle because of budget constraints. Actually, I think it is great that these type guns are used for such purposes. No, what the OP is talking about is the same thing that I have noticed in my neck of the woods for years. While a 30-30 is is plenty adequate for Maine deer, semi-auto's like the Remington 7400 in 30-06 seem to be the most popular. It is not uncommon to go to a hunters breakfast and see lots of guy decked out in hunter orange with 20 or more rounds of 30-06 on their belt. Are the deer shooting back these days? I also think that the magnum craze, especially the WSM and WSSM calibers, has gotten a little out of hand up here as well. Perhaps it is true that some of these guys will go Moose or bear hunting with their deer rifle, but most of them will not. Why do we buy cars that will go 160 miles per hour when the fastest we can legally go is 65? The answer of course is because we can and, we want something different from what everybody and their brother owns.

 

[KenWP]

And of course they sell them back at the end of the season because they don't get a deer or shot at one with their eyes closed because of the recoil or what ever other flinch problem they have and figure it's the guns fault. Next season they buy a bigger gun or a more expensive one and wonder why they miss again.There is also the problem of sighting it with 3 shells and going hunting figureing that the gun will do all the work that practice would do instead.

 

[gunnie]

the white tail deer in my neck of NETEX are about the size of big dawgs. my two overgrown mutts have about 20lbs on most of them*. the IDEAL caliber/rifle for them would be a long bbld 22LR bolt action, with a 60gr Aguila SSS. {provided the hunter does his part.} unfortunately, 22LR is not allowed by law.

i own a 338LM that, when shooting 300gr SMK's, has more energy left 600yds downstream than a .308 winch has at the muzzle. prefering to not go trolling for ticks and fire ants through the dense rain forest like vegetation, i shoot them from the back porch overlooking the hay field. the longest shot to date was a lazed 425yds. dropped like a sand bag.

ready for the punch line? i use a 308 winch, and federal GMM with 168gr SMK's. sure, i could hit it with the 338LM, and sidestep the gutting process, but don't see a real need to do so. methinx the entry side wound would have a 6" diameter ring of blood-shot meat around it! we're talkin' more than minute of whitetail, here! not only would it be more horsepower than required, it would be counterproductive. the latest, greatest, super duper magnum is not needed at humane hunting ranges.

it will always come down to WHERE the bullet hits, not how hard.

heed the advice of the real estate dealers. ask them why a three bedroom house in one neighborhood is worth 3X another very similar one in "the valley". they will tell you that the differences, "are--location, location, location".

gunnie

*any one have a softback copy of "101 ways to wok your dog" for sale?

 

[DIM]

I have doberman pincher, which weights 100 lbs, the does which hang around my front porch are twice as big then my dog, the buck’s even bigger, my dog having a kick chasing them off my property (dam varmints )they still managed to eat all of the flowers planted by my wife. Telling you .270 doesn’t stop them right away, still have to track them for 50 – 100 yards, unless it’s a head or neck shot.

 

[gunnie]

most deer i've seen that were heart-shot will jump straight up in the air, and then run 50-100yds. no less dead. ~from a well placed shot~. non-magnum caliber, from circa 1925.

i don't disagree with that. niether did jack o'connor.

gunnie

 

[Legionnaire]

Why? Effective marketing.

 

[Snakum]

Over-kill schmoever-kill ... I squirrel hunt with a .300 Win Mag.





Go big or go home.

 

[janobles14]

it makes me feel all manly! like arnold with his mini gun in terminator!