Army assault rifle 'lost' in Pembrokeshire

[Greg L]

Hmmm. Ok ... I've not been in the service, so bear with me here ...

If you're a Sergeant Major (an 'Artificer'???), and you hand a weapon to a subordinate of some sort - well - I'd assume that you'd leave (some sort of) instructions as to the disposition of that weapon with the subordinate.

RSM: " 'Ere, hang on to this for a sec. I've got to hit the can"
Captain: "Private, run this message to the Major RIGHT NOW"
Private: "Er.....um.....but....er....yes sir"
RSM: "Where the bloody 'ell is that #@$@!#! blighter"

[Thread drift] Back in basic, my bunkmate managed to lose his rifle while we were out in the DARK woods of Ft. Knox in the middle of July (the height of undergrowth season). An HOUR after he realizes that he forgot it he slides up to me & asks "Uh, do you think I should mention this to the Drill?" God that was a long night with the entire training batallion beating the bushes looking for that thing. Thankfully (for him at least) his dad was a 2 star & we eventually found the rifle (just in time to forget about sleep & head off to the next day's activities).

 

[MD_Willington]

CFB Chilliwack had a bit of a problem with L1A2's going over the fence every once in a while, a college buddy was in DNDCA when that happened...

 

[Kurush]

Wow, is the SA80 really THAT much of a crappy weapon?

We were teasing... mostly. The first version was awful, but they've worked some of the bugs out. It's still too heavy, poorly balanced, fragile, and like most bullpups you can't transition it to your weak shoulder without disassembling it first (unless you don't mind having brass eject into your ear).

Personally, I also think it's the ugliest assault rifle ever designed.

 

[Rabbi]

In my war (1965-1968) there were tons of "docs" from Navy Corpsmen to Army to Air Force who got it done. Most knew a gun, one end from the other and could take hits when it had to happen.

Except for the SAS, the damn Brits have been "war fags" since WWII and only a few elite services have been exempt.

Guys, wake the f**k up, they beat schoolboys in class and half the alleged schoolmasters use 'em sexually. We're talking "Great" Britain here.

We gave them a half million rifles under "Lend/Lease" and in the sixties, they bulldozed them into the North Sea because they think guns are evil.

F the British where they sit down and also where they put their lunch.

British Isles, my American ass.

 

[Vane]

Way off the topic now

I am currently serving aboard ship. My last tour (May 2001-May2003) was in the Middle East where I worked with our coalition partners (primarily Brits and Aussies, but also Spanish, etc.). I was not tarring all our guys, and certainly not our Marines, SEALs and the Army combat arms guys. Nor specifically noncombatants (corpsmen and medics), for whom I have the utmost respect (my Dad was a Marine from WWII to Vietnam and my uncle a Corpsman in Korea). My point was we have military folks who are actually afraid of firearms and not qualified with them, but they ought to be, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan where there is no defined line. Supply folks get ambushed(like Jessica Lynch) for example. By the way we are all together serving over in Afghanistan and Iraq, although the Army and Marines are bearing the brunt of combat. The first guys into Umm Qasr were Navy, then USMC, then Royal Marines to tackle the snipers (they had some practice in Ulster with that). There just doesn't appear to be enough ammo for everybody to practice with as much as I personally believe necessary. I was not kidding about having to send my Marines (I was their department head in a mixed Navy/Marine shop) to Parris Island to get their quals done (that was just to be current, not extra rounds to improve their skills). While chatting with a buddy today I learned that the Navy is the only service that makes the guys buy their own ammo in order to practice for the Navy pistol team! That is pretty poor. And because of bureaucrats in the bookkeeping department, from what I gathered.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[8Balls]

We were teasing... mostly. The first version was awful, but they've worked some of the bugs out. It's still too heavy, poorly balanced, fragile, and like most bullpups you can't transition it to your weak shoulder without disassembling it first (unless you don't mind having brass eject into your ear).

Personally, I also think it's the ugliest assault rifle ever designed.

Last summer i put 4 mags through SA80 (That was supposed to be the improved version, modified by H&K). (1st mag, single shots, second double taps and the last 2 full auto). I got 1 mystery malfunction and 9 ftfs (gun tried to feed multiple rounds). And the gun itself was f***ing puzzle. After that i was more than happy to get my RK95 back. Now thats a working and accurate gun!

 

[cane]

Gosh Vane, you must have a rough MOS, been on sea duty for over 4 yrs. After 27 yrs you should be senior enough to catch some shore duty. I don't know why you singled out corpsmen and medics in your origional post, but that and a couple of other things you said sure makes me curious. It is true that if you are trying to get on the Navy Pistol Team you must buy your own ammo to practice with. Once you are a member of the team, practice ammo is provided, just to make sure there wasn't any misunderstanding.

 

[Majic]

Has anyone ever heard of any military releasing any kind of news like this?

 

[iapetus]

The new version of the SA80 supposedly works...

(exerpt from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/19/narmy19.xml)

"Our arsenal is now a lot bigger, has greater capability and gives us much more options on the ground," said Colour Sgt Rod Poulter 34, who recently finished training 40 Iraqi NCOs in the Beacons. He added that while the old SA80 rifle had "many, many faults", with recent modifications it was now "a world beater".

While the much derided original SA80 rifle failed in numerous operations, its successor the SA80 A2 was now "the best weapon in the world" after 24 modifications were made in a £90 million overhaul four years ago.

"As a section commander I now know that I can stop the enemy and in close combat kill them because my weapons will work in all terrains," Sgt Poulter said.

The troops were now "more than happy" with what they had got although some grumbled about the loss of capability for using the bayonet.

 

[Kurush]

According to HK people who have reliability problems aren't cleaning them well enough. Of course, cleaning them well enough can be a problem when you're, you know, fighting a war or something. When you said "world beater" I had this image of a frustrated soldier clubbing his SA80 against the ground out of frustration

 

[Jim K]

On one visit to Stonehenge, I pulled my rental car up beside a British army truck (like our 3/4 ton) in the parking lot. The tail gate was up but the canvas flap was open. That truck was crammed with Sterling SMG's. There was not a soldier within 100 yards; two or three were spread out, looking at the monument*. No guard, no driver. Further, the rear of the truck was facing away from them. Of course, I would have had no way to get one of the guns back home, but what a temptation! I could have easily have thrown a half dozen guns in the car "boot" and driven off, with no one the wiser until they went to take inventory back at the base.

I simply could not believe the total lack of security.

Jim

*That was when it was possible to actually walk up to the stones and touch them, something that can't be done any more.

JK

 

[captain obvious]

I'm going to have to have to fall into the "what's the big deal" crowd - i mean the rifle will probably end up returned to their office doorstep, with a rather angry note attached.

 

[hayabusa]

In your war? Not exactly a successful one was it? Lets face it, the Brits are probably 'war fags' as the last time we went with them into a conflict in Iraq 1991, all their casualties were due to our 'friendly fire.'

They did successfully mount a naval operation to the Falklands some 8000 miles away, winning that war back in '82 when we wouldnt support them.

Corporal punishment has long been banned in the UK and I think you may be a bit controversial there with your views on their schoolmasters.

I think we have a lot to thank the British for, lets not forget that the US Navy was founded by a Scotsman!

 

[Medusa]

They did successfully mount a naval operation to the Falklands some 8000 miles away, winning that war back in '82 when we wouldnt support them.

Yes they did and lost some ships, like a Type 42 destroyer, and would have lost some more if the argentinean pilots would be a little more up the task (the didn't lack the courage, though) AND if the bomb fuses would have been higher quality products.

I believe the problems are not in the soldiers, but rather in the political leadership as from there most of the crap comes.

 

[scout26]

To quote Gen. Eisenhower during WWII:

"Isn't it enough that we have to fight the enemy ??"

 

[Drizzt]

to be fair, we almost lost a ship to an Exocet missile a while back as well. The ironic thing with Exocets is, they're more dangerous when they don't work properly. The ship will take less damage if the warhead goes off like it's supposed to.

 

[mr.trooper]

Not surprising. One of our local officers just lost his Tazer, and 16" LEO AR-15.

Aparently he left his cruiser door unlocked while he was inside some shop (The specific type of pastries left to the imagination), And returned to find his Tazer and Carbine missing from his vehicle.

OOPS.

 

[DRZinn]

Vane didn't say corpsmen and medics are afraid of weapons. What he said was that some people in the military are, and they AREN'T corpsmen or medics. At worst, he was implying that it would be less of a problem for a corpsman or medic to be afraid of weapons than someone else. An assertion that can hardly be disputed.

 

[Moonclip]

You might be surprised how many people in the military are anti gun or gun shy. Qualifying with a 12 ga was always a cause for whining by some.

Our XO at the base once told the exchange not to have gun magazines as they were "violent".

 

[cane]

DOC, that's not what he said, he said they're not corpsman and medics, don't change his posts. After reading his posts, I think he's a poser. Even "shops" where Navy and Marine personnel are assigned together, there is a Marine who handles things like rifle re-qual.

 

[MillCreek]

Not to mention that after 27 years in, he certainly pulled a lot of sea duty. An amazing amount, for someone who should be an E-8 or E-9 after 27 years. Of course, there certainly are some of the NECs that pull a lot of sea duty.

 

[Drizzt]

Army admits ten guns missing

JAMES KIRKUP
WESTMINSTER EDITOR

TEN British Army weapons have gone missing in the UK in the past year, raising fears they may fall into the hands of criminals.

Among the missing arms is at least one SA-80 rifle, the standard weapon of the British infantry, capable of firing dozens of bullets in seconds.

And at least four powerful 9mm pistols are also officially considered lost, the Ministry of Defence admits. Only one of the guns has been recovered.

On 6 October, a soldier from the 14 Signals Regiment mislaid his SA-80 at Templeton training camp in Pembrokeshire, Wales. Royal Military Police searches failed to recover the rifle, leading to fears it has been taken by someone outside the army.

The MoD figures came to light this week after Stephen Crabb, the Conservative MP whose Preseli Pembrokeshire constituency includes the Templeton camp, raised the matter.

"While we hope they do not find their way into the hands of criminals, I suspect some probably do," Mr Crabb said.

• This week, a pistol went missing at a nuclear power plant at Springfields in Lancashire. The handgun and 30 rounds of ammunition were reported lost from an armoury operated by the Civil Nuclear Constabulary.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2197312005

 

[Stand_Watie]

Vane didn't say corpsmen and medics are afraid of weapons. What he said was that some people in the military are, and they AREN'T corpsmen or medics

DOC, that's not what he said, he said they're not corpsman and medics, don't change his posts...

..We have folks in the military scared of firearms and unfortunately they are not corpsmen and medics!..

^ ^ ^
Just to make sure we're all on the same page here regarding what I'm referring to - I don't see any particular disparagement of corpsman or medics in that comment.

 

[Ryder]

Keep an eye on my piece for me

Not allowed when I served. We had to maintain possession at all times and expected to use force if necessary. Release to any person regardless of rank was only permitted during formal inspection.

I still practice this. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks I guess

 

[DRZinn]

What he said:

We have folks in the military scared of firearms and unfortunately they are not corpsmen and medics!

What I said:

Vane didn't say corpsmen and medics are afraid of weapons. What he said was that some people in the military are, and they AREN'T corpsmen or medics.

Then you said:

DOC, that's not what he said, he said they're not corpsman and medics, don't change his posts.

Are you paying attention?