Army Basic Training Question

[TheFrontRange]

I have a couple of nephews and one niece seriously considering joining the Army...in fact, the niece IS joining and ships out for basic training soon.

Can anyone share what current Army basic training is like around rifle usage...are recruits issued a rifle that they must maintain throughout basic (as the Marines do...I guess they still do, anyway) or is there just a certain block of training devoted to marksmanship?

The reason I ask...I own an AR-15 and was thinking of letting her and her brothers become familiar with it...basic firearms safety, disassembly and reassembly, and some range time if possible. I'm sure the Army has its own method of teaching, but my thought was that any exposure to a rifle very similar to what I assume they'd use in basic might be helpful to them.

 

[Burt Blade]

If you can teach them a good trigger press, and how sights work, and that wind changes the impact point of a bullet, you will have given them a leg up on anything the Army uses that can reasonably be called a firearm.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I second Burt's input. Any training you could give them would be a help. Just don't drive it into their head though since the Drill's will have their own way. However, any good traits they have will make life easier on them and will increase their success if things get ugly for them in the future.

 

[taralon]

My brother just got out of the Army and I put this question to him. His response was, train them.

Any training that they go in with means less !#$# that they have to put up with from Drill Instructors. My brother said he got a lot less crap after they'd been to the range since he was able to get on paper and have his weapon zeroed in under 9 shots with a total time taken of 3 minutes when others took an hour or longer.

He also stressed that basic firearm safety training techniques often consisted of getting your ass kicked by the Firearm instructor and/or another trainee who came under the sweep of a loaded weapon.

Then he noted that since he was one of the ones who was proficient with a firearm before going in, he got to fire off all the 'fun' weapons live when that training came around. He shot the LAW, he shot the Ma duece, he got to shoot the Mark 19 grenade launcher.

At best they'll be a step up. At worst they'll have to learn a different way of going about things.

 

[WT]

I recall an article about a change in the Army's policy regarding weapons. Seems that as a result of experience in Iraq the Army now issues a rifle to recruits withing a few days of their arrival. That rifle goes everyplace with them - chow, training, the crapper, etc. Only locked up at night.

Hopefully, this is working well for our Soldiers.

 

[joab]

In my BCT group the majority of the experts came from people who had never held a gun.
the next group of experts came from people who were raised with guns as a way of life.

I'm not sure I would get too involved in giving too much training at this late date.
It'll take the drills too long to undo what they misremember

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I'll give you some input with the caveat that I went through Army Infantry OSUT, not standard basic. On the other hand, having talked to people in other MOSs, a lot of the stuff they did in basic was similar to what I did.



We were issued a rifle that we kept with us the whole time we were in training. I'm not sure if basic training brigades are doing that too or not. I suspect they probably are, given the current situation in Iraq and the emphasis on always having your weapon with you in the field. We were issued our rifle the first week of basic and turned it in during recovery week (the last week).

We had one block of instruction, Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM), that lasted for about a week and a half. That is pretty basic, unsurprisingly. You'll learn to shoot a group, zero your rifle, then shoot the qualification course with pop up targets.

We also had another block of instruction, Advanced Rifle Marksmanship (ARM), that lasted for a week (Week 7). That dealt with how to use the M68 Aimpoint, a "red dot" sight. Zeroing an M68 is a little bit of a hassle, but they are laughably easy to use well. During ARM we also did some Close Quarter Marksmanship (CQM a.k.a. CQC a.k.a. CQB) dealing with quick shots at short distances. M68s make that pretty simple.

We also did a couple of night shoots. One using an PVS-14 NOD mounted directly on the rifle and one using a PAQ-4 infrared laser and PVS-14s mounted on our helmets.

Beyond that we did varied other training, convoy shoots (from the back of a truck), some basic squad movements, 3-5 second rushes, and so on. For those you will usually do some combination of dry fire, blank fire, and then live fire.


I'm not exactly sure how much of that stuff your nephews and nieces will do in basic. Like I said, I was Infantry, but they are doing a lot of that stuff in normal basic too. What with the war in Iraq and all. Any idea what MOS your nephews and nieces will be in?


Personally, I feel it isn't a terrible thing for them to have some exposure to an AR-15. We had people that had never fired a gun before do just fine in basic. But I think it helps to be familiar with the weapon, esp how to use it and how to disassemble/maintain it.

But REMEMBER, the drill sergeants will teach your THEIR method. Just go with it, not matter what you've learned.


Additionally, there are a couple of old threads from when I joined the Army here (dealing specifically with rifle practice) and here (general basic training). There is also a good thread on joining the Army here.

 

[Hypnogator]

Train them!

You don't necessarily need to train them on the AR-15. Train them on the elements of sight alignment and trigger squeeze.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, my training on the University of Iowa rifle team saved me from being recycled in basic because I have a bum leg and wasn't able to run as fast or far as I was supposed to. When we sighted in the M-16s, I put all 6 of my sighting shots in the same hole, right in the middle of the "X". That ended all talk of recycling me. Seems the company commanders all had bets as to who'd have the best PT score, the best rifle score, etc. When we qualified I won my commander $700. Passed my final PT test with a score of 301 (300 needed to pass).

 

[Langenator]

I left command in July after 19 months commanding a basic training company.

New soldiers will be issued a weapon (M4 if they're Infantry, M16 for most everyone else) around Day 3 or 4 or training, depending on how the schedule shakes out. From then on that weapon goes everywhere with them, from PT in the morning until it's time to hit the showers at night.

Qualification training will be done in weeks 4 & 5 (roughly). Once they've qualified, each soldier will be issued a magazine containing blank ammo, and they will lock and load said blanks everytime they leave the battalion area. Any soldier that has an ND will be sent back to Day 1 of training, in another company, because they obviously didn't learn it right the first time.

Weapons are turned in for good after the final formal inspection, about 2-3 days before Graduation.

As for what, if anything, to teach her, you can't go wrong with the 4 fundamentals:

-Steady Position
-Sight Picture/Alignment
-Breathing
-Trigger Squeeze

If she manages to master those before shipping out, the next thing I'd work on is target acquisition, since Army qual is done on a pop-up range. You'd be amazed at how many targets troops don't engage because they don't see them quickly enough.

 

[MrTwigg]

+1 on the training

Best to learn from someone you know, in a calm, non-stress filled envrionment. They will thank you for this after boot.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Get them familiar with the AR-15 and how it shoots, if they have been shooting before then they will be fine. Most of the problems that I have encountered in the Army are people who (And it's all mindset because)
1. Have never shot or ever handled a Weapon.
2. Have the attitude that they will never improve beyond basic skill with a weapon.
3 Because of #2 Will never ever gain any certain level of confidence with their assigned weapon.
There are People who will never develop into second nature the fundamentals of refle marksmanship and will have to be taught over and over again.

Many of the people who have developed a need and use for firearms in their young life and enter the Army do quite well.

So the best answer to your question is to let them shoot and if you are good at shooting that AR demonstrate it to them to show them what that thing is capable of.
Don't let them shoot the thing only to get discouraged because it could carry over into the service. Plan it out in advance.

 

[oneshooter]

When my nephew went into the Army I took him to the range with my AR. Taught him to hold, breath, and squeeze, taught him how to disassemble and reassemble the rifle, and how to clean it. ow your rifle is your bestest friend and will never let you down, IF you take care of it! Taught him that HIS rifle will never let him down, if he treats it right. 3 weeks total before he left.
When he went into basic weapons training the DI asked if anyone could break down the M-16 he was holding. Ivan said yes, and was given the weapon which he promply checked for clear and dissassembled. When the DI asked him where he learned THAT he promply answered "My uncle taught me the MARINE way SIR!"

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

PS He was made acting corp. in the training platoon, shot expert all 3 times. Went to Iraq and has returned safely.

 

[bg]

When I went through Boot, I had a weapon that would
jam on the firing line. I wish I'd of had more training on how
to get a jammed weapon performing again went I went
through the course..

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Langenator,

Is the policy of carrying loaded blanks specific to your post/unit or is that Army wide? Because I know we never did that in our company at Ft. Benning last summer.

 

[Langenator]

May have been a Ft Jackson thing. The brief the brigade commander gave us gave the impression it was supposed to be all basic training installations.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Thanks for actually supporting the troops.

I went into Infantry OSUT with no gun experience. One thing that held me back was that I never understood how the sights worked on the M16A2. It was explained to us, but I never understood it very well. I still don't, but I'm not in the business anymore and have better taste in weaponry. Show them what them funny markin's mean on the rear sight, and make sure they understand the relationship between line of sight and trajectory. Draw a diagram.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Langenator,

Sounds like a good scheme they're using now. I don't understand though, why M4's would be issued to Infantry. It seems to me that a solid buttstock and long barrel is most needed by those who are more likely to use the weapon, as opposed to the "pogues" who will mostly carry the rifle. By M4, do you mean the short-barrel, collapsible-stock AR, or do you mean the M16A4?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I was injured during basic training. I crawled too close to an explosive pit during paragon trails and was blown about 10 feet into the air and about 20 feet down range. It looked like a cartoon. My uniform was actually smoking when I landed. I deflated a lung and fractured some ribs. As a result I missed most of BRM. I was under threat of being held back for another cycle but my CO said that if I could get out and pass my marksmanship test I could continue on with the rest of my squad. I was released the day of the test, having missed the entire riflery training part of basic, and went and took the test. I shot expert. Thank god for the training I received from my grandmother growing up. This was the extent of my use of the M16 during basic. One day of shooting. The rest of the time I just stripped it, cleaned it and carried through the mud alot. I hardly ever touched another one in 8yrs of service.

 

[Eleven Mike]

I hardly ever touched another one in 8yrs of service.

How I envy you. (Just because I don't like AR's)

What is a paragon trail?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Eleven Mike

Paragon trails was a live fire exercise at Fort Dix. You get to crawl around exploding pits, and under barbed wire while tracer rounds are whizzing by over your head.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Dude! What was your MOS, PP?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

My original MOS was 96B (intel analyst)

 

[Langenator]

11M-don't worry, I know the differences between the M4 and the M16A2/A4. We had M16A2s for BCT at Jackson.

Infantry types got the M4s first because they're lighter and easier to tote around-grunts carry their weapons for a week at a time during some field problems, while support troops, like you said, leave them in the truck or sling them. Plus, infantry has all the high speed toys to hang on their rifles.

The other reason is that the M4 is much better for CQB than the M16 Moving in confined spaces with the 20" barrel is a PITA.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

My brother joined the Army and shipped off for basic last Jan. He was apparently assigned an M16A4 complete with ARMs quad rail, which is was intimately familiar with cleaning procedures and maintence before he ever got to shoot it. He signed up as infantry but never touched an M4 until he arrived at Fort Campbell with his unit in the 101st Airborne.

 

[DougW]

My son is currently in the Army. He went through basic about 3 years ago, and was on the old system of only handling a rifle when necessary, not all the time like they do today. He has been shooting rifles and pistols since he was about 8 though. We built him a CAR15 for his 18th birthday, and he shoots it well. He had already learned the workings of the M16 system before basic. He gets a lot of trigger time at home to suppliment the Army training.

He is nearly 3 years into his first enlistment, in the Army Band. He has always qualified as Expert on the rifle with the highest qualifying score in his band (about 60 people in a Divisional Band). He is not only the Armorer for his band, but the informal rifle marksmanship instructor to the members that are having trouble qualifying with the M16. He gets to spend extra time showing other soldiers how to shoot to qualify. He has also picked his personal weapon, the M249 SAW. Being the armorer, he handles the weapons weekly.

There is a lot more emphasis on shooting skills in the past few years. He is getting a lot more trigger time this year than last, but his unit will be "playing" in the sand box soon, so the more the training, the safer the troops. They have been training in live fire exercises lately, which are honing the soldiers confidence and skills.

He tells me that his unit is squared away and high speed. Most people don't realise that the Army Bands perform for the troops, and then have a second job of force protection. But, it keeps him busy.