Arrest NY Laguardia TeaParty Man
- Thread starter Keb
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Yes it appears so.
New York outlaws all handgun possession without a license, even in the home.
That license typically requires a resident living in the state months and sometimes nearly a year to acquire, a visitor is out of luck.
Many counties require things as ridiculous as several state resident character witnesses that will write a letter saying they think you should in fact be allowed to have a handgun to obtain the license. People that cannot be related, and must have lived in the state a certain amount of time.
By trying to legally check his handgun he was demonstrating he illegally possessed that handgun in New York.
He also may be demonstrating he illegally possessed the magazine that is over the NY legal limit if it was not a pre-ban magazine as defined by NY law (California cut off grandfather date being 2000, later than the New York pre-ban requirement.)
Since NY was clearly a destination of his, he is also not protected by FOPA that allows someone to travel through a state with firearms not legal in that state, as long as it is legal at the destination.
Mere possession of a handgun without the state license within the state, even in a person's own private home is a felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison.
New York outlaws all handgun possession without a license, even in the home.
That license typically requires a resident living in the state months and sometimes nearly a year to acquire, a visitor is out of luck.
Many counties require things as ridiculous as several state resident character witnesses that will write a letter saying they think you should in fact be allowed to have a handgun to obtain the license. People that cannot be related, and must have lived in the state a certain amount of time.
By trying to legally check his handgun he was demonstrating he illegally possessed that handgun in New York.
He also may be demonstrating he illegally possessed the magazine that is over the NY legal limit if it was not a pre-ban magazine as defined by NY law (California cut off grandfather date being 2000, later than the New York pre-ban requirement.)
Since NY was clearly a destination of his, he is also not protected by FOPA that allows someone to travel through a state with firearms not legal in that state, as long as it is legal at the destination.
Mere possession of a handgun without the state license within the state, even in a person's own private home is a felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison.
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hermannr
Member
If he was traveling he is covered by the federal law, but that does not stop NYC from charging him.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
But not if he was traveling to New York. If the firearm isn't legal in the destination state, then you aren't covered by FOPA when you get there.
926A actually says:
If he was just passing through NY, he'll get off with a lawyer's help. NY does seem to enjoy prosecuting such cases, even if federal law says they can't actually win.
If he was heading to NY -- if NY was his destination for part of his trip -- then he's in trouble.
Ed N.
Member
He's a Tea Party gun owner under arrest on a firearms charge in a liberal, gun-hostile city where Bloomberg is the mayor.
He's toast.
He's toast.
Simply being in possession of a gun in NYC without an NYC license is a violation.
Only if he was passing THROUGH NYC.
If he stayed in NYC he was no longer protected by FOPA.
The ownership must be legal in the starting and ending locations for FOPA to apply.
If you go to NYC and stay a few days, you are no longer 'traveling through.'
wojownik
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He's up for a class C felony on this one. The Queens prosecutor may be a problem, depending on how much he wants to grandstand.
However, news reports are saying that because he is a traveller, and the handgun was not illegally acquired, and that holds a valid license in CA, then he may get off with a (hefty) fine. However, AFAIK, if it turns out that he was not really in transit (i.e. was staying in NYC with the handgun), then he might have a problem pleading for just a fine/probation (penalty is a max 15 years imprisonment).
Prosecuters have noted that the handgun, ammo and mags would be destroyed.
However, news reports are saying that because he is a traveller, and the handgun was not illegally acquired, and that holds a valid license in CA, then he may get off with a (hefty) fine. However, AFAIK, if it turns out that he was not really in transit (i.e. was staying in NYC with the handgun), then he might have a problem pleading for just a fine/probation (penalty is a max 15 years imprisonment).
Prosecuters have noted that the handgun, ammo and mags would be destroyed.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Or maybe he's got a deal with Alan Gura to be the next test case... 
Naaaah, he's probably up a creek.
Naaaah, he's probably up a creek.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Quote from the Queens DA's office:
Honestly if he can get that done he is a heck of a lot better off than trying to become a test case.
Honestly if he can get that done he is a heck of a lot better off than trying to become a test case.
Carl N. Brown
Member
links to stories
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-attempting-to-check-in-with-gun-at-airport/
"Tea Party Leader Arrested After Attempting to Check in With Gun at Airport", Associated Press, 15 Dec 2011.
Apparently he had a resident CA permit and had stayed over a few days in NY before going to Detroit.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ckler-gun-possession-laguardia_n_1152439.html
"Tea Party Patriots Co-Founder Mark Meckler Arrested For Gun Possession At New York Airport", 15 Dec 2011.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ested-Gun-Possession-LaGuardia-135689808.html
"Tea Party Patriots Chairman Arrested for Gun Possession at LaGuardia", 15 Dec 2011
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-attempting-to-check-in-with-gun-at-airport/
"Tea Party Leader Arrested After Attempting to Check in With Gun at Airport", Associated Press, 15 Dec 2011.
Apparently he had a resident CA permit and had stayed over a few days in NY before going to Detroit.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ckler-gun-possession-laguardia_n_1152439.html
"Tea Party Patriots Co-Founder Mark Meckler Arrested For Gun Possession At New York Airport", 15 Dec 2011.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ested-Gun-Possession-LaGuardia-135689808.html
"Tea Party Patriots Chairman Arrested for Gun Possession at LaGuardia", 15 Dec 2011
Strykervet
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So no 2A in NY huh? Never been there, sounds like a place I don't want to go. Hope dude was just passing through. You'd think he was unless he was trying to make a statement, I mean come on, how many CC'ers carry cross country without checking the laws?
If national reciprocity gets signed into law, then I may visit. But I guess Illinois and DC are out of the question (why?). Didn't leave anything there anyway.
It'll be pretty funny if this gets signed into law and I can tote my pistol in NY when the residents can't. On the other hand, what would stop them from getting a Utah permit if reciprocity is signed? But I bet they have a LOT of local laws that will still hamper it. Bloomberg won't take this sitting down.
If national reciprocity gets signed into law, then I may visit. But I guess Illinois and DC are out of the question (why?). Didn't leave anything there anyway.
It'll be pretty funny if this gets signed into law and I can tote my pistol in NY when the residents can't. On the other hand, what would stop them from getting a Utah permit if reciprocity is signed? But I bet they have a LOT of local laws that will still hamper it. Bloomberg won't take this sitting down.
bushmaster1313
Member
Does FOPA cover someone passing through a state but needs to stop at a motel for the night?
Does NY require knowingly violating or merely knowingly possessing without an affirmative defense.
My guess is that knowing possession is enough and he is toast.
Does NY require knowingly violating or merely knowingly possessing without an affirmative defense.
My guess is that knowing possession is enough and he is toast.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
This is true, or at least they can try.
It has been argued that in some cases it would be unrealistic for it not to. But, again, if you're stopping for the night -- and also to do a little sightseeing or have a business meeting, then NO, that state is a destination and thus, you're not protected by FOPA.
Any case where the accused spent several days in the state would be right out of the question.
Aikibiker
Member
You know a defense under the Heller ruling could be made. Since the Supreme Court has said it is unconstitutional for handguns to be outright banned and NY does not grant pistol permits to non-residents there is a clear violation of Mr Meckler's 2nd Amendment rights as recognized by caselaw from SCOTUS.
And the only reports I have seen that said Mr. Meckler spent time in NYS/NYC, beside catching his flight (LaGuardia is a hub that serves serveral nearby states where his pistol is legal) were the same ones saying he had 9mm ammo for his Glock 27.
I would say if he is not trying to be a test case to over turn state handgun registration laws he could very well become one quite easily. Is his lawyer part of Allan Gura's group?
And the only reports I have seen that said Mr. Meckler spent time in NYS/NYC, beside catching his flight (LaGuardia is a hub that serves serveral nearby states where his pistol is legal) were the same ones saying he had 9mm ammo for his Glock 27.
I would say if he is not trying to be a test case to over turn state handgun registration laws he could very well become one quite easily. Is his lawyer part of Allan Gura's group?
bushmaster1313
Member
Wise words from Jim Croce:
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't tug on Superman's cape
alsaqr
Member
For years the NRA and other gun rights organizations warned travelers about flying into JFK, LaGuardia and Newark with guns in their luggage. The guy is a lawyer. NY law is very specific. There is no defense in these cases.
i can't believe any sane gunowner would fly into NY City with a gun that is not registered in NY. The minute the lawyer retrieved his bags at the airport he was in violation of NY law. Depending on which assistant DA is prosecuting this case; the guy may walk with a stiff fine and a misdemeanor conviction.
If one is caught with a gun in JFK or LaGuardia he/she had better have a very fat bank account. This is a link to NY City law firm that defends guns in airport cases.
http://www.queensdefense.com/guns.htm#airport
It's not right but that's the way it is. Travelers ignore NY law at their peril.
i can't believe any sane gunowner would fly into NY City with a gun that is not registered in NY. The minute the lawyer retrieved his bags at the airport he was in violation of NY law. Depending on which assistant DA is prosecuting this case; the guy may walk with a stiff fine and a misdemeanor conviction.
If one is caught with a gun in JFK or LaGuardia he/she had better have a very fat bank account. This is a link to NY City law firm that defends guns in airport cases.
http://www.queensdefense.com/guns.htm#airport
It's not right but that's the way it is. Travelers ignore NY law at their peril.
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Carl N. Brown
Member
The Sullivan Act has long been criticized as a blatant violation of Due Process and Equal Protection under New York State constitutional provisions that apply to licenses and permits (not even mentioning federal 2A and 14A right to bear arms and equal rights provisions). New York politicians and prosecutors are paranoid about protecting their sacred cow, the failed social experiment of the Sullivan Act, even though it also fails the social utility test: NYPD and ATF claim 2 million illegal guns in NYC. This will NOT be a test case to overturn NYC or NY state handgun registration laws, but as a test case, this could be used to (a) require NY to recognize valid out-of-state license, permit, or registration OR (b) require NY to grant non-resident license, permit, or registration.
Quiet
Member
Recently (after the SCOTUS rulings), the Second Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the FOPA is an affirmative defense that is used during trial and does not protect a person from being arrested and jailed.
Do not bring a handgun into NY/NJ, unless they are permited through NY/NJ.
Do not bring a handgun into NY/NJ, unless they are permited through NY/NJ.
bushmaster1313
Member
As FOPA is an affirmative defense, I would not rely on it unless I started my trip in a vehicle in a state where I was allowed to possess the firearm and I was passing through the nasty state in the same vehicle on my way to a friendly state.
In New York and New Jersey I would not rely on FOPA with a handgun if an airport is involved and I would not rely on FOPA in such an airport with a high capacity magazine or an "assault weapon".
I wouldn't even rely on FOPA to take a long gun through an NYC or NJ airport unless i was permitted in those jurisdictions to have a long gun or withsomething in writing from The authorities, but a long gun through NYC or NJ n a vehicle is probably covered.
However, out of prudence I would not rely on FOPA to take an assault weapon or a high capacity magazine through NYC or NJ and would not rely on FOPA to bring a pistol through NYC unless I resided there.
In New York and New Jersey I would not rely on FOPA with a handgun if an airport is involved and I would not rely on FOPA in such an airport with a high capacity magazine or an "assault weapon".
I wouldn't even rely on FOPA to take a long gun through an NYC or NJ airport unless i was permitted in those jurisdictions to have a long gun or withsomething in writing from The authorities, but a long gun through NYC or NJ n a vehicle is probably covered.
However, out of prudence I would not rely on FOPA to take an assault weapon or a high capacity magazine through NYC or NJ and would not rely on FOPA to bring a pistol through NYC unless I resided there.
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