More high-handedness from TSA

[Warren]

Oh, I thought maybe you were talking about a company called General Aviation.


I've been looking at getting a license.

 

[madcowburger]

Don't fly, period. Air travel long ago became unfit for a free people. I have refused to fly since the late 1970s. I'm sure not willing to put up with how they do things now.

Boycott the airline. Bankrupt them. Plow them under and sow the ground with salt. Good riddance.

What's worrying me is the way they're trying to treat *all* forms of travel -- train, bus, boat, even private auto -- the same way, as far as it's feasible.

We're all guilty until proven innocent now. We're all "terrorists" until proven otherwise. Well, all us "civilians" are anyway.

If you think it's wrong to do things like this to people, *don't do it*! Don't be a part of an oppressive system. Pledge allegience to the Constitution, not a paycheck.

MCB

 

[Art Eatman]

Other than a trip to Europe from time to time to visit my son, I won't fly.

If I do go over, I'll make sure that when I get to the airport my colostomy* bag is full.

, Art

* Look it up. It's gross.

 

[ChiefPilot]

Two words......

General Aviation

Exactly. For anywhere within about 700nm, door-to-door time is faster as well even though the aircraft itself isn't. I can leave my house and be in the air 30 minutes later. I don't have to be at the airport an hour early. My flight is never overbooked. I can, and have, carried my 1911 with me. I don't have to wait for luggage when I land. The rental car is usually driven out to my plane, or at the very worst is waiting for me in the parking lot of the FBO.

Nuts to flying the commercial airlines!

 

[EOD Guy]

What everyone seems to be ignoring is that the man took the time to check on what items were not allowed and then took a lighter that he admits was forbidden to the security check point. He then is outraged when the lighter is taken from him. A gas lighter contains unabsorbed liquid fuel which he knew was not allowed. I think I would be hesitant to accept his unverified version of the events.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

What everyone seems to be ignoring is that the man took the time to check on what items were not allowed and then took a lighter that he admits was forbidden to the security check point. He then is outraged when the lighter is taken from him. A gas lighter contains unabsorbed liquid fuel which he knew was not allowed. I think I would be hesitant to accept his unverified version of the events.

Whoa. We are now entering the fuzzy world of semantics. Please re-read exactly what the gentleman wrote:

One screener asked to manually inspect one of my bags, knowing that I had nothing in it that was prohibited based on the TSA's own site I allowed the search. This inspector found a lighter that I was given by my stepdaughter for our first Father's Day together. It was a cigar lighter that did not run on Liquid Fuel, but gas. (Unabsorbed Liquid fueled lighters are prohibited based on the above PDF).

The gentleman did NOT admit that the lighter he carried was prohibited. It was his interpretation that it was NOT prohibited, because it is gas fueled. In fact, he specifically stated that "It was a cigar lighter that did not run on Liquid Fuel." Personally, I don't know what the heck "unabsorbed liquid fuel" means, and not being familiar with the lighter involved I don't know if the gas would/could/should be considered to be unabsorbed liquid fuel while in the lighter. But it IS clear that the gentleman did not think it was prohibited, and that he certainly did NOT admit that he knew it was prohibited.

 

[joe4702]

One thing for sure - If no other option was viable, I would elect to pitch the damn thing in the trash rather than turn it over to a TSA screener and have it end up in their personal goodie collection.

 

[Warren]

Damn straight. Don't give those TSA nazis anything.

 

[Stebalo]

Carrying pre-stanped envelopes is and excellent idea.

Last time I flew internationally, I took a several bills with me. I was arriving at the airport early and I wanted to write some checks and just mail them out from the airport since I had not had time before hand. Do just as planned and then spent half an hour looking for a USPS drop box. I asked security and they told me there were not any post boxes. I was told since 9/11, post boxes had been removed from airport terminals. This was Newark Airport terminal C.

Have they replaced the post poxes? That was awhile ago I guess.

 

[redhead]

I avoid flying as much as possible, but can't always. My mother recently had surgery, and I needed to be there for a few days to take care of her. It's an 11 hour drive. I have physical limitations that make it painful for me to spend that much time at the wheel of my car, so I got a direct flight - 1 hour, 35 minutes.

My suitcase was examined by TSA. I can't imagine why. There was nothing in it that would have caught the attention of a screener, just shoes, clothing, a couple of books. I haven't had any difficulty going through screening myself, but my suitcase has been examined twice this year, out of the two times I have had to fly somewhere. I hope they enjoyed pawing through the socks and underwear of a middle-aged lady. I know I feel a whole lot safer knowing that someone with latex gloves was groping my underwear.

 

[madcowburger]

Hm, colostomy bag, eh? That gives me an idea. Even if you don't really have a colostomy, maybe you could get a colostomy bag and attach it to yourself however they are attached.

You could fill it full (tick-tight) of, I dunno, some kind of chocolate pudding or fudge or something like that, and then, when they start frisking you or whatever, you could let out a scream something like: "Aaagh! You've busted my colostomy bag!" and then slap your own hand on it, as if in an attempt to contain the leakage, but in reality to *force the contents out* all over everything and everyone standing near. (Hopefully most of it would go on whoever was frisking you.) The chocolate fudge wouldn't be quite as good as the "real thing," of course, but it ought to be good for some laughs.

MCB

 

[RooK]

If the lighter was anything like a Zippo, I personally would have taken the lighter out of the housing and threw it to the idiot to keep. At least them it would be practically useless for him (and dangerous) until he got a new housing. Plus, you could probably take the lighter housing on the plane with you.

 

[EOD Guy]

The gentleman did NOT admit that the lighter he carried was prohibited. It was his interpretation that it was NOT prohibited, because it is gas fueled. In fact, he specifically stated that "It was a cigar lighter that did not run on Liquid Fuel." Personally, I don't know what the heck "unabsorbed liquid fuel" means, and not being familiar with the lighter involved I don't know if the gas would/could/should be considered to be unabsorbed liquid fuel while in the lighter. But it IS clear that the gentleman did not think it was prohibited, and that he certainly did NOT admit that he knew it was prohibited.

In rereading the post, it appears that the man inadvertantly brought a forbidden item to the check point because he did not understand, or forgot, how a gas lighter works. The fuel for gas lighters (usually butane) is a liquid when under pressure in the lighter's fuel reservoir. It becomes a gas when released. It is considered unabsorbed liquid. He was probably thinking gas, not liquid. Those types of lighters can be dangerous if the fuel reservoir leaks in an enclosed space since the butane will expand hundreds of times from it's liquid volume.

 

[Art Eatman]

EOD Guy, a question: If a Bic lighter is safe in the unpressurized baggage hold with the checked luggage, why would it be unsafe in a pressurized cabin?

As a flame source, why would it be different from any "acceptable" lighter? And, how would it be a terrorist weapon where an acceptable lighter would not?

Art

 

[Waitone]

a Bic lighter is safe in the unpressurized baggage hold with the checked luggage, why would it be unsafe in a pressurized cabin?

There you go again with that logic stuff. Stop it!

 

[JohnBT]

"The fuel for gas lighters (usually butane) is a liquid when under pressure in the lighter's fuel reservoir. It becomes a gas when released."

Thank you. A lighter would hold much fuel in gaseous form - or have a lot of pressure.

And I was told that I couldn't carry Bic lighters on planes even before 9/11 because they didn't want anyone setting the plane on fire. How did I find this out you ask? Why, I repeatedly tried to carry them on the plane in case I found a place to smoke at the next airport. Wouldn't have done me any good in the checked luggage.

Of course, I understand way back when you could smoke on the plane, but I'm not that old. <ha>

John

 

[Waitone]

Well you could "surrender" your BIC lighter at security and then purchase a new one in the news stand just down the corridor from the secuity checkpoint once you clear it.

That is the kind of nonsense that demonstrates conclusively the TSA is not really interested in security.

 

[sendec]

After the ValueJet crash in the 'Glades the carriers got real touchy about what various gasses and liquids came onboard and in what various forms and containers. I'll defer the math to an expert but I am confident that there is enough potential energy in a common lighter to breach a hull.

Frankly, given the twits who try to smoke on fights and the uber-twits who try to light their shoes, it does'nt suprise me at all that lighters are prohibited. I'd be certain to make the screener's comment known. I believe the TSA website has a comments area

 

[EOD Guy]

EOD Guy, a question: If a Bic lighter is safe in the unpressurized baggage hold with the checked luggage, why would it be unsafe in a pressurized cabin?

As a flame source, why would it be different from any "acceptable" lighter? And, how would it be a terrorist weapon where an acceptable lighter would not?

They aren't permitted in your checked baggage either. It has nothing to do with a terrorist threat. It is a safety issue with the aircraft. They were not allowed in checked baggage prior to 9/11.

 

[Turkish]

Wow, I remember going to pick up relatives flying from New York I always carried my Swiss army knife with me. And not one of the little tiny 1" blade ones,a full size climbers edition with a 3" main blade, 1" secondary blade and a few other pointy objects. Took it through security check points all the time, just put it in the little bowl the screener had, walked through the metal detector and had it handed back to me on the other side. Then we would all walk over to the gate and wait for family to arrive. Amazing how things have changed in a few short years.

 

[trapperjohn]

you had a butane lighter, it stores its fuel as An unabsorbed liquid. an absorbed liquid lighter is the type that has a wick.
their concern with these is not that you use it as a weapon, but if hte lighter were to crack or leak (yes it does happen) It can cause a flammable mixture over a relatively large area. This particular ban is not based so much on terrorism but on generaly common sense safety.
You were told it was banned, unfortunatly you didnt make the connection.
did the TSA officer give you the option to go back to your vehicle? Did you ask if you could take it back to your vehicle?

 

[Finch]

Amazing. Becareful about blanket statments. I know that stuff like this wouldn't happen here in Vegas. We understand that rules are confusing, and the some of them are pretty stupid. I've seen many time people being sent back from checkpoint to put a knife, or a really nice lighter back in their bag. I use to think our managment was just hard assed, but I see know that we are one of the better Airports in the country.

Also, if the screener had no Identification at all, he is probably violating several of the Airport and TSA rules. Mainly displaying proper identification at all times. At LAS, you can't work if you don't have your badge.

 

[Moparmike]

I dont think there is a way to harness the potential energy held in a bic lighter while keeping the lighter in its "lighter form" and breech the hull. You might be able to take the gas out of the lighter and use it that way, but you would have to have a container stronger than the skin of the aircraft (which the lighter isnt) to contain the pressure of the "explosion" and direct it out toward the skin. Such a container would not make it past the screeners, along with the small explosive/ignition source for the gas, in my opinion.



Please note that I am not an Airport Screener or an explosives expert. The above is just my "thinking through" the options.

 

[another okie]

Turkish - if that seems long ago to you, you might like to know that it is not all that long ago that one simply gave the nice lady your ticket and walked on board. No ID check, no search. You could use tickets issued to other people, you could carry anything you wanted, the stewardesses were young and pretty, the seats were comfortable, and people were generally nicely dressed and polite. I know, it sounds like a fantasy, but it's true.

 

[EOD Guy]

I dont think there is a way to harness the potential energy held in a bic lighter while keeping the lighter in its "lighter form" and breech the hull. You might be able to take the gas out of the lighter and use it that way, but you would have to have a container stronger than the skin of the aircraft (which the lighter isnt) to contain the pressure of the "explosion" and direct it out toward the skin. Such a container would not make it past the screeners, along with the small explosive/ignition source for the gas, in my opinion.

Breeching the skin of the aircraft is not what they are worrying about. The most feared incident on any aircraft is fire. That is what the issue is.