Arsenal AK74 or HK USP 9MM

[RX-178]

If you do the 922r conversion yourself (and going to the extreme - even a gas block / front sight block change is doable by Joe Sixpack), you'll save lots of money over the price of the Arsenal Saiga.

The VAST majority of gun owners are uncomfortable with anything more than a field strip for cleaning as detailed in the manual provided by the factory.

It doesn't help that most manuals specifically recommend against doing a detail strip at home, and plenty even say that doing so will void their warranty.

I currently own an Arsenal AK in 5.45x39 but may now sell the thing because of this. I can't support a company that supports someone trying to destroy America.....

Sell it to trexpug!

 

[Hatterasguy]

Arsenal makes a nice product and AK's are cheap anyway. At least for me the fit and finish on any Russian weapon is marginal at best, so I want the best and its somewhat acceptable.

Lets put it this way even the best AK's are not LWRC's or Sig550's finish wise.

 

[JHansenAK47]

First off Arsenal guns are Saigas. So I am not sure what you mean in your last post.

If they have the SGL prefix, otherwise they aren't made by saiga.

Arsenal has a nice racket going. They serve a very tasty kool-aid to maintain it.

Racket or nice commercial saiga conversion niche market. Let's face it saigas are nice and arsenal doesn't convert them at cost. They buy a gun wholesale then turn around convert it which costs money not just in parts but in man hours and tack on their profit to keep their investors happy. Something you don't have to pay for when you do it yourself.
They do make a good product that isn't built on kits or finished at the lowest price point.

To be fair century catches a lot of flak because they finish their rifles like crap so people do tend to unfairly judge a book by it's cover.

Thanks guys, im sorta leaning toward the HK USP 45

Make sure to check out the P7s too.

 

[wideym]

I have 3 Century AKs, one Arsenal, and one home built from a parts kit.

I've never had any problems with the Century AKs, nor the other two, but the Arsenal is the only one I could find with the factory side folding stock and the finish was very nice. Other than that they all perform great with the legendary AK reliablility.

The only 5.45 AK I have is a Century and after I changed out the stock set with a Kvar it looks and feels like an Arsenal.

The price is the only big difference in the two and the only reason I bought an Arsenal was it had the factory side folder and was also $600.

 

[chuckles]

It always appears to be that the only complaints about Arsenal rifles are from people that don't own one. I've owned 4 AKs, 1 Norinco 2 polytechs and 1 Arsenal. The Arsenal is far better than any of the others. I currently own a SAS M7 (underfolder) and a Polytech underfolder and the Arsenal is by far the better rifle. Save your money and buy one, you'll change your opinion. Wait, I know you've owned 3 and all were trash, right?

 

[Girodin]

There is the extra cost and labor to make it 922(R) compliant.

Umm if you cannot get it 922r compliant for the price difference you have issues. As to the difficulty if someone cannot handle a the mechanical demands of a basic saiga conversion I'm not sure they can safely handle a gun either.

Arsenal's are over priced for what you get. The fact they are funneling money to Harry Reid in what is likely to be a close and key senate race ought to be enough to make any one person with concern for RKBA issues never do business with them again. Maybe they are investing in another panic buying spree I'm sure the last one was very good for their business, even the lowly Wasr-10 was going for $800 back then.

Wait, I know you've owned 3 and all were trash, right?

No one has said they are trash or said there is any issue with them what so ever. People are simply saying that they offer basically no functional advantage or something like a converted saiga. There was a whole thread on this before and the only difference anyone could point to was that the Arsenal doesn't step you casings which considering most people shoot steel casings and even re-loaders like myself tend not to reload for 7.62x39 who really cares. More over one could buy a few thousand rounds for the price difference anyhow.

If you want to tell me in what way an Arsenal will out preform a converted saiga I'm all ears.

 

[nalioth]

<snip>and the only difference anyone could point to was that the Arsenal doesn't step you casings <snip>

Recently imported standard Saigas no longer have the stepped chambers, either.

I've made my position on Arsenal quite clear over the years, and it hasn't changed. Those posts can be found here.

 

[RX-178]

As to the difficulty if someone cannot handle a the mechanical demands of a basic saiga conversion I'm not sure they can safely handle a gun either.

That is out and out elitism, and it is no less offensive than the idea that only police and security should own guns.

Let's say I don't want to void my warranty by detail stripping my Glock 17, which is an even easier procedure. Does that mean I shouldn't own a Glock 17?

 

[nalioth]

Let's say I don't want to void my warranty by detail stripping my Glock 17, which is an even easier procedure. Does that mean I shouldn't own a Glock 17?

We're not discussing Glocks here.

"Detail stripping" a Kalashnikov is included in any manual.

 

[ECVMatt]

To the OP, sorry some of these guys rained on your parade. It looks like some have an agenda or at least are very repetitive.

I have an Arsenal and like it a lot. I have had a couple of other AK's which worked great, but were not as nice. I enjoy the overall appearance, fit, and function of the Arsenal much more than the mixed part guns I had before. The Arsenal does shoot a bit better than the others. You might look up nuttnfancy's review of the SLG 21 on youtube. It is pretty comprehensive and addresses some of the other AK opinions out there. If you have the money, they are worth it to me. If you are looking for a beater truck gun then some of the others might serve you just as well for less dollars. Good luck and enjoy whatever new gun you buy.

 

[RX-178]

I will point out that Girordin did not limit his remark to kalashnikov rifles either.

His choice of words was that if someone was not comfortable or willing to detail strip a Saiga rifle and convert it, that they would not be capable of safely handling a GUN in general. Not just a Kalashnikov rifle.

I find that statement to be unbelievably elitist.

 

[wojownik]

I concur with RX-178. That was an unnecessarily provocative statement. And we're way off the OPs original question.

 

[nalioth]

I will point out that Girordin did not limit his remark to kalashnikov rifles either.

His choice of words was that if someone was not comfortable or willing to detail strip a Saiga rifle and convert it, that they would not be capable of safely handling a GUN in general. Not just a Kalashnikov rifle.

I find that statement to be unbelievably elitist.

Call it what you like. I personally can't fathom anyone not knowing how to run a drill or simple hand tools.

Are we (as a society) really becoming so helpless?

 

[jon_in_wv]

currently own an Arsenal AK in 5.45x39 but may now sell the thing because of this. I can't support a company that supports someone trying to destroy America....

Don't do that. You already bought it. Selling it to someone else doesn't effect the company in the least. If its a good weapon keep it.

If it comes to buying one directly from them or getting something else though, get something else.

 

[millertyme]

I'm with the "save your money on the AK" camp. I had a Romy SAR-1 a decade ago that I put nearly 5,000 rounds through with cleaning it and it never once gave me a problem. Paid $275 for it. A buddy of mine has a WASR and it works just fine. Thousands of rounds through it and no problems. He cleaned his once when he got it and decided to see how many rounds it could go before needing it again. Still as accurate as it was three years ago when he took it out of the box, several thousand rounds down the pipe. $375 including two mags. I don't care what they do it, in third world countries you could trade an AK for a loaf of bread. They aren't worth what some people are willing to pay.

 

[philpost]

If you do the 922r conversion yourself (and going to the extreme - even a gas block / front sight block change is doable by Joe Sixpack), you'll save lots of money over the price of the Arsenal Saiga.

Arsenal has a nice racket going. They serve a very tasty kool-aid to maintain it.

Yes, it's a wonderful racket - it's called "providing a service by doing a high-quality conversion using all-new parts, then stocking it at a dealer near you, so that you can exchange $ and get something good-to-go straight out of the box". I've drank that kool-aid once with an SGL-20, and were $ no object, would do so again in 5.45.
Did you have a traumatic experience sometime with an Arsenal? Because you REALLY seem to hate the brand, for no especially good reason (Wait, there's hype in the gun world?????). Unless it's the wusses who won't do their own Saiga conversions, LIKE YOU THINK THEY SHOULD

 

[briansmithwins]

Call it what you like. I personally can't fathom anyone not knowing how to run a drill or simple hand tools.

I'm a tech. I fix broken stuff for a living.

There are plenty of people that should not be allowed anywhere near simple hand tools.

You show some people a screw, they see a funny shaped nail that needs a bigger hammer...

BSW

 

[Black Butte]

Given the current political climate, and the fact that you already have a Glock 17 and no tactical rifle in 7.62x39, I'd go with the Arsenal AK-47.

 

[Dumptruck]

They are backing Harry Reid. Arsenal can keep their products. I am not buying.

 

[seasmoke]

Both are good options...

Perhaps you should consider one of these. A bit more spendy to feed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seitcE7Tf1I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-22tna7KHzI

Cripes guys, lighten-up

 

[Shadow 7D]

Hum, a reasonably accurate rifle that does everything, and even does some of them well

another over priced handgun, and an HK to boot.
I guess I'll have to take the commie crap