arthritis and the brand

[alicechan11]

Ok I'm currently in the market for a vehicle/concealed carry piece probably in 9mm and after browsing and reading I'm thinking of a Sig 938 or CZ 75 compact The threads here are as expected pretty evenly divided, very valid points on either side. What I have not seen and one of the issues I'll almost certainly be faced with in the future is arthritis problems in the hands. I'm almost 60 yrs (young or old) and other "issues" have resulted in Dr's mentioning arthritis in other joints. *sigh*

So.... is there any other experience here in which model may have easier slide operation, other features which would make it more (well worn shooter) ) friendly? Is there another brand/model I should take a look at? No doubt some will recommend a revolver and I understand and appreciate that and am not allergic to finding a "little brother' for my 6" GP100, but for now Any thoughts on an semi-auto??

Thanks in advance )

Thanks for sharing

 

[Ibmikey]

Tej, I carry a velcro wrist brace in my shooting box, before shooting i wrap my strong wrist and have no problems shooting or afterward. I no longer fire pistols ( or rifles for that matter) with large amounts of recoil, .45 acp is about the max in my recoil tolerance now.

 

[Zebraranger]

Generally speaking, the arthritic / otherwise weakened folks that come through the shop I work in end up (happily) outfitted with a revolver. With a revolver, there are no worries of slide working, stiff recoil springs, mag stuffing, small stiff controls, or ill fitted, one size fits none fixed plastic grips. FWIW, It's what I use for my own truck gun.

Unfortunately I too am in the same age range and also have arthritis that is slowly progressing (particularly weakened finger strength). I have no doubt that I'll go this route in the next couple of years. That being said, I like revolvers a lot, my collection has a mix of both semi autos and revolvers that I do shoot regularly, so I'd be comfortable with a revolver.

 

[TRX]

I picked up a 1955 Star Super in 9mm a couple of years ago. It's the same form factor as a 1911, which makes it pretty big for concealed carry... but possibly due to the mass of the slide and barrel vs. the 9x19, the recoil spring very soft. I've never handled an autoloader that was easier to rack.

 

[Tirod]

I have a P938 and an Uplula is nearly mandatory loading the mags. I'd actually worry about that first.

I have found other things important with hands that have carpal tunnel and arthritis. First, the pound weight of the trigger pull and it's length. I can still manage a 12 pound trigger shooting a S&W 4566, what I find I have to work with is the longer trigger pull in DA. It was the reason I chose the P938 in the first place, compared to the 1Gen LCP which was stiff and lengthy in comparison. When it came time to pick up another .380 I chose the Kahr CW380 over the Remington for the same reason, the latter had to be pulled back almost touching the frame to let it off.

I also choose guns that were specified by the factory to be chambered by releasing the slide hold open without slingshotting it. They are back in action sooner.

Compared to a revolver, the auto pistol reloads faster, with less motions.

As for racking the slide it's also a matter of handling the weapon. I don't unload them. It's a self defense weapon meant for protection and if so you need it RIGHT NOW. So I don't unload them - which means I don't need to rack the slide to reload them. If not in use they go in the security cabinet loaded. We are supposed to treat guns as if they are, at all times, if you do leave them loaded then your habits and practices will be no different. In theory. What happens in real life? If we unload it we think it is and then do things with them we shouldn't have. The #1 excuse for poor weapons handling given after a negligent discharge is the owner's complaint he thought it was unloaded.

More unloaded guns have been negligently fired than loaded ones. Just ask the owners. Bad mindset. I don't trust hammers, either. They can and will hit my thumb if I am negligent. Hammers are always loaded, too. It's about having the right mindset.

As for the few times a slide actually needs to be racked it's a matter of adopting safe techniques that allow you to hook the slide into a special rest, on the edge of a stationary object, even a holster. The front edge of the slide, the front sight if robust enough, the rear sights etc can be used. And someone has even come up with an accessory for the Glock that does it, too, with wings extending from the rear of the slide. Often enough its not the pressure of the recoil spring that is the issue, it's the off hand and it's strength. If the grip hand can still push sufficiently against a stable object, the slide will rack.

It should be, for the most part, something you only need to do when cleaning the weapon. Which by all reports is when they go off the most, because they were "unloaded." Keep in mind the manufacturer's recommendation about how soon to do that - it's usually in the hundreds of rounds. A quick trip to the range to shoot a box of 50 doesn't necessarily constitute enough reason to field strip and clean a weapon that is "hard to rack" and which by many accounts is always "unloaded" when it goes off. It seems we accelerate issues and force them into occurring more often by this practice, when in point of fact we really do not need to do it.

The average mechanic would be overjoyed if you actually cleaned your engine once a year - yet we read of gun owners obsessively cleaning their armory of weapons every time they take them to the range and pop a few rounds thru them. I consider it a legacy of military instruction using corrosive primers carried over into that realm of tradition where we have forgotten why Grandma always cut off the end of the roast making Sunday dinner.

Her pan was too short.

We worry about racking the slide too much.

 

[wally]

You are on the right track with the Sig P 938 the slide is fairly easy to rack

Its only easer to rack because you can split the force into "cocking the hammer" and then "cycling the slide". I consider the fact that you can cock the hammer, apply the safety, and then rack in a round to be plus, YMMV.

My recommendation is at the first sign of joint issues see a rheumatologist and an orthopedist. Depending on the problem source, early treatment with a steroid injection or anti-arthritic drugs can really slow down the progression.

A steroid injection in my right shoulder three years ago by my orthopedist has worked wonders, and an anti-malaria drug (~$64/month with GoodRx coupons, cheaper than my part D deductible+copays) prescribed by my rheumatologist appears to have stopped the auto-immue degradation of my joints without making me susceptible to infections. Everyone is different, see a good doctor of the appropriate specialty, start treatment sooner rather than later.

I can still shoot 400 rounds of 230gr .45ACP at the steel plates in a single session without any significant issues (I'm 66) and have been seeing these docs since I was 62. Stay active, stretch, exercise to work on mobility and maintain strength (less weight, more reps per set), some pain can lead to gain! If you ignore the issue until you can't it'll likely be too late to do very much about it.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

You young fellers have many more surprises in store for you.

 

[AZAndy]

I have a P938 and an Uplula is nearly mandatory loading the mags. I'd actually worry about that first.

Hear hear. Those are some tight springs. When I get to the last couple of cartridges, it takes three or four tries to wrestle them in there.

 

[JayPee]

O.P., I'm fighting the same problem. I have severe osteoarthritis in my hands with muscle mass loss and other problems caused by ulnar nerve damage. I have been forced to go from the .45 to the .40 to the 9mm. Fearing I might not be able to handle the 9mm much longer, I found two solutions to my problem. I hope you will find them useful.

First, I'm going to move mountains to continue using my 9mm. In order to do that I have purchased and just finished testing a pair of fingerless tactical gloves to see if they wouldn't reduce the pain of recoil. They did, and bigtime. You'll find a wide variety of them being made, but I settled on these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KFBSRTU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

I found that I needed to cut a bit more length off of the thumb to accommodate my pistol, and I had to learn to draw the pistol a bit differently because of the added mass of the glove in the web of the thumb, but a goodly range session yesterday showed the idea to be completely practical. I intend to wear a glove on my shooting hand any time I'm carrying out in the community. They look just like a hand brace, so shouldn't draw a lot of attention. They are also made in a tan color.

Secondly, if I reach a point to where I can't even handle the 9mm with a glove, then I'll have a very good hi-cap, 13+1 round DA/SA .380 waiting in the wings, fully tested and ready to go. That pistol is the Zenith MC14, which is a Turkish pistol modeled after the old Browning BDA variation of the Beretta Model 84. It has an aluminum frame but has some heft to it and recoil is noticeably less than the 9mm. One feature I especially like is the sear blocking safety - if the time comes when the double action pull becomes difficult for me, I can then carry the gun in Condition One, cocked and locked. It also has a firing pin safety. This pistol is made by Girsan in Turkey, and is imported by both Zenith Firearms and Chiappa. The gun's workmanship is as good as anything I've seen in any of the big name pistols - there literally isn't a tool mark anywhere in it. I only paid $359 for it and it came with 3 MecGar Browning BDA mags. I've since obtained two more MecGar BDA mags for $21 each from GregCoteLLC. I've fired around a hundred rounds in it so far and it performs perfectly. It is very accurate, having put five rounds into one ragged hole at 10 yards from the bench. Budsgunshop still has them. Here is a good review of the pistol with the Chiappa logo stamped on it.

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com...cp-feature-laden-edc-sidearm/#chiappa-mc-14-2

Best of luck.

JayPee

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

For what's it worth, I taught to push rather than pull the slide or go back to a revolver. Yeah, we are getting old, but whatever.....

 

[chasgrips45]

well , I`m 72 Bad arthritis left index finger one heck of of pain I ain't shooting my p64 anymore ! If you have pain in your trigger finger ,use your middle finger. .no joke it really works ! BTW I ain't going to give up driving my motorcycle either!

 

[Rexster]

Arthritis is starting to affect my shooting. I had been thinking I might retire from police work by late 2015, largely because it was becoming painful to shoot my SIG P229R, .40 S&W, but three things have helped prolong my serious shooting. The first step, involving two of those three factors, was made possible when my chief authorized 9mm to be an alternative duty cartridge, so I switched to Glock, for the lower bore axis, at the same time I switched to 9mm. I could have stayed with SIG, switching to 9mm, but I remembered, from the time I still had a .40 G22, that a high bore axis was a significant factor in muzzle flip, in spite of the SIG's greater mass/weight. The flexing polymer frame of the Glock pistols probably play a part, too.

The other thing that helped was resurrecting my carry of heavy steel. I started carrying my one remaining full-sized 5" 1911, a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, during personal time. (I can shoot a 1911 better than a Glock. No amount of training with Glocks closes the gap.) A 1911, especially one with a high-cut front strap and relieved trigger guard, as made by Les Baer, has a quite low bore axis, and .45 ACP, while it may have quite a bit of recoil, seems less "snappy" than .40 S&W. I am very glad to still be able to carry a 1911, the original foundation upon which all of my handgunning was built.

In 2016, my chief authorized those of us who attended a transition/certification class to again carry the 1911 as a primary duty pistol. It seems that most of the older firearms training officers, many of whom are arthritic from so much shooting, are now toting 9mm 1911 pistols. (I work for a very large PD; our larger qual/training range is open 24 hours a day, five days a week, to keep 5000+ officers qual'ed, so there are quite a few full-time range personnel.) Someday, I, too may acquire a 9mm 1911.

Another thing that helps me is attaching a Surefire X200 or X300-series light. This makes a G19 noticeably more comfortable to shoot. Simple, really; mass provides the inertia to help damp recoil, and hanging the weight under the muzzle reduces muzzle flip.

 

[Boarhunter]

At 62, most of my major joints have either been replaced or are due to be replaced...and the rest of me is not much better. I have gone to shooting 22lr almost exclusively in recent months, focusing on j-frame Smith 8-shot revolvers. My current carry are a couple of Smith 43Cs, and I am satisfied with my choices. Approximately 500 rounds/week in practice is easily tolerable to my joints.

BOARHUNTER

 

[doubleh]

Ok I'm currently in the market for a vehicle/concealed carry piece probably in 9mm and after browsing and reading I'm thinking of a Sig 938 or CZ 75 compact The threads here are as expected pretty evenly divided, very valid points on either side. What I have not seen and one of the issues I'll almost certainly be faced with in the future is arthritis problems in the hands. I'm almost 60 yrs (young or old) and other "issues" have resulted in Dr's mentioning arthritis in other joints. *sigh*

So.... is there any other experience here in which model may have easier slide operation, other features which would make it more (well worn shooter) ) friendly? Is there another brand/model I should take a look at? No doubt some will recommend a revolver and I understand and appreciate that and am not allergic to finding a "little brother' for my 6" GP100, but for now Any thoughts on an semi-auto??

Thanks in advance )

Don't throw in the towel just yet. Just because you develop arthritis in one joint doesn't necessarily mean it's going to spread to all joints. I developed arthritis in my right elbow at 26 years old and was diagnosed with it in my knees in my mid 40s. I have not developed arthritis in my hands and I have 20 years on you. Look on the positive side and deal with the situation if and when it occurs. Maybe you will luck out and your hands will be fine.

 

[AZAndy]

I'm 60 with some arthritis in both hands/wrists. I have no trouble with the Sig P938. Recoil isn't bad, it's accurate, and the slide is manageable. Easy to carry, too, even in a pocket.

 

[chasgrips45]

Keep on Truckin

 

[Zaydok Allen]

My girlfriend is very petite with typical woman hands. Small and of considerably less strength than a younger male.

She finds the cocking wings on my HK VP9 extremely useful and beneficial when shooting that gun. She also finds my P30SK with a LEM trigger easy to manipulate and shoot.

If you anticipate future hand issues, you may want to give some HK models a look. But I think there are a lot of good options.

Absolutely avoid the Springfield XDs.

 

[chasgrips45]

Good suggestion But it probably would be cheaper for hand surgery than to buy an HK!

 

[Dirty Bob]

This is a topic I've thought about a lot over the years. I turn 55 tomorrow and suffer occasional hand/wrist pain.

Some thoughts:

• A single action revolver may be the easiest handgun out there for someone with little or no hand strength. Reloads are slow, but one could carry a second gun. Cimarron sells a downsized .38 Spl. Loaded with wadcutters or standard velocity JHP, such a gun would require practice, but would otherwise be very easy to shoot.
• A 1911 in 9mm is a soft-shooting gun. I haven't seen a cocking stand in years, but one could make one, with a small platform with holes cut for the pistol, so you set the muzzle and lean forward to move the slide back. Helpful for "administrative" slide manipulations, like a "press check".
• The Glock 42 hasn't been mentioned. Its slide isn't the easiest to manipulate, but the recoil is quite gentle.
• Total agreement as to the user-friendliness of the Ruger P-series. The P90 is perhaps the softest-shooting .45ACP auto ever made. Slide is relatively easy to rack.
• For the recoil-shy, I echo a previous poster and recommend the SP101 with wadcutters, a spur hammer, 3-inch barrel and Hogue rubber grips (don't get the hard nylon stocks). A very gentle revolver, and the trigger can be lightened. It's already fairly smooth on many SP101s.
• In the LCR line, I suggest the stainless frame -- not aluminum -- versions (.357 Mag, 9mm and .327 Mag, IIRC). The .327 Mag, loaded with .32 Long wadcutters would give you a small, gentle six-shot that is still worlds ahead of a .22LR.
• I hesitate to recommend .22 revolvers (Mag or LR), because trigger pulls are often necessarily harder to ensure reliable ignition with the rimfires.
• Finally, how about a 2-handed pistol? The AR-15 as a pistol with a 10.5 or longer barrel is pretty gentle, especially if you have the gun tuned with that in mind. It's LOUD, though. Ask me how I know, but speak up when you do it. Short ARs, M-60s, M-14s, M2 Brownings, 20mm Vulcan Phalanx, and other fun things have taken their toll over the years.

Respectfully,
Dirty Bob

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Good suggestion But it probably would be cheaper for hand surgery than to buy an HK!

Not so. The VP9 can be had for $650 and lower. The same is true of the P30SK. The full size P30 in 40 S&W is also quite affordable and is regularly advertised on the web for $599 and lower.

Now a 9mm P30, an HK45, and the USP family of guns, yes, they are quite spendy. Worth it in my experience though.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

The Walther CCP is also extremely easy to manipulate the slide on. I have read some pretty bad reviews of that gun, and wouldn't buy one myself, but it is a possibility.

 

[d2wing]

I am in that boat too. I like the H&K USP 9, and am getting a VP 9. My S&W Sigma isn't too bad. Wearing padded MC gloves helps a bunch.

 

[Speedo66]

I rented a Sig 938 a couple of weeks ago, thought the recoil was quite manageable. Loading 100 rounds in the magazine, well, if you didn't have hand trouble before, you did now. Ridiculous trying to get the last rounds into the mag. People talk about a loader, that would be a definite if I owned that gun and took it to the range.

If you have no trouble, mentally or physically, with an external safety, I think it would be a nice gun to carry. If you owned a loader. lol

 

[SteadyD]

The LCR 327 with 32 H&R is very soft shooting, should you chose to go with a revolver. HSM, Black Hills, and Hornady all offer a mild 32 H&R Magnum Hollow point that produces significantly less recoil than a 38 special. Just how well these hollow points perform at snub nose velocities isn't well documented as best I can see.

I agree with those that note how easy it is to rack the slide on a 938. It's the easiest of any pocket 9 I've owned. However, arthritic hands might balk at putting the recoil spring and guide rod back into the slide for reassembly. That little sucker can be a real booger.

Good luck on your search.

 

[d2wing]

I got the H&K VP 9 today and shot it. It is great. Easy trigger and slide and very accurate. I wear hand braces or gloves when I shoot. I got mine on sale at Fleet farm for $549.99 less $50 for signing up for a credit card. so it came to 499.98. Plus they have a rebate of 4 extra mags. Regular price is $650. but I have seen them for $550.00. Not real cheap but they are top quality and shoot real nice. The sights are level rather than the front lower so you have to have good technique. I am still working on that.