At what point do you draw?

[firemanjohn]

I am new to CC and was wondering where people think the line is to which you would draw. I know the mentality for many is you don't draw until you intend to fire, but what about as a deterrent? In my case I think I would rather not have an aggressor know I have a gun until it hit the life or death point as he may have a weapon he has not used, and was not going to and my pulling mine would only escalate things.

 

[MostlyGenius]

The deterrent value of firearms has been debated a lot on other threads.

If you wait to hit the 'life or death' line you might very well be too late, conversely if you worried about escalation you are thinking about applying your firearm in situations where it is probably not appropriate.

Take a look at the forum posts about AOJP

 

[LSCurrier]

There are many different scenarios on a subject like this. I could envision many of them where:

a. I am prepared to draw, but don't.

b. I draw and keep the weapon hidden until needed to be used.

c. I draw and keep the weapon in a low-ready stance ready to be used.

d. I draw and actively cover the intended target and do not fire.

e. I draw and acquire my target and fire.


I don't believe one set of rules applies to all circumstances. I think that you need to have a general set of rules you follow and adapt to the situation at hand.

Also, I think we need to devise good safety rules and remain always alert and ready to act. Keeping in mind that it is better to be proactive and avoid the problem than reactive to a problem that we walked into because we were unaware.

Luke

 

[firemanjohn]

I most certainly practice the situational awareness part. I don't want to shoot anyone so if I find myself in an undesirable location I leave. I have gone 27 years of life without having to fight for my life against a person. (almost lost a fight with a dog once) and hope never to do so. Thanks for the input so far.

 

[MrCleanOK]

I will never use my carry piece as a deterrent. If it clears the Kydex, it is because I feel I may have to shoot somebody with it. Different scenarios will dictate whether my weapon will be drawn and fired immediately, or held out of sight, etc. The bottom line is that if a bad guy ever sees my gun it's because he's about to be full of holes and he will be surprised by it.

 

[Treo]

I Colorado the ROE are pretty clear. Reasonable imminate danger of life or greivous bodily harm. to me that means I don't touch the gun until I have no other options. I tell my wife if you still have time to ask yourself if deadly force is justified .........It isnt.

 

[bl4ckd0g]

You need to check the rules of engagement (ROE) for your state/county/municipality. This is a basic concept that is covered in most CCW classes.

You should never brandish a firearm as a deterrent unless you are planning on using it. Any competent instructor will tell you to find any means to leave the scene of a potential altercation. Drawing from your holster is only necessary where you face inescapable bodily injury.

If you do not utilize your firearm in a reasonable amount of time, an assailant can sense your weakness and attempt to take your weapon or use his.

I'd recommend that you attend a reputable CCW class, and then get involved in role playing scenarios using airsoft guns. You can practice your marksmanship and drawing technique to perfection, but a rush of adrenaline can screw it all up.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

For me, if I see an assailant with a weapon threatening lives, I will draw and fire. That means a punk with a knife or gun telling a cashier to open the drawer, a guy with a knife holding some woman down, a group of punks with bats pushing/beating someone around. The drawing and apparent use of a weapon means lives are at risk. A criminal with a weapon is an automatic declaration by said criminal that he intends to use it if he doesn't get what he wants:money, sex, respect, etc. Non-weapon beatdowns also qualify.

Any other situation where I see probable bad guys hassling good guys(but without a weapon or actual violence) will be met by a loud voice(mine), a cell phone call to the police, and probably some OC. I've set my limit, now it's up to them to either escalate or flee. If they flee, so be it. If they escalate to violence or weapons, that brings us back to the first part of the post.

If it's threatening me with a weapon, I will comply to their wishes but only in a way that can put me at an advantage, ie: throwing my wallet so they have to move to get it/take their eyes off me. Then I respond with my weapon. If it's someone hassling me without violence/no weapon, then a healthy dose of non-threatening verbal persuasion/fleeing/calling the police is the way to go. So if it's some irate driver after we just got into a car accident who's talking ####, I'll speak calmly, put my hand clasped in front of me in a non threatening but ready stance, and call them "sir" a lot.

 

[tepin]

1. Retreat (it will save you money)
2. If you cant retreat, the shoot/dont shoot decision relies on the AOJ-P analysis.

 

[tegemu]

When I percive a threat or incipient threat of death or serious injury to myself or others.

 

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

I think there are at least two sides to that question..one "tactical" and one legal.

In TX brandishing your firearm is considered legal IF you are legally justified in using FORCE (not DEADLY FORCE) in a situation. From what I have read brandishing can mean either displaying the weapon in its holster (BAD IDEA) or drawing it. Decent deterrent value to a mildly motivated criminal. I hope I understand that law correctly, if I don't someone please correct me.

From a tactical perspective I'll draw when I'm ready to shoot or have a situation that could quickly escalate into a shooting and I would be legally justifiable in using it. Not just when I get scared.

 

[firemanjohn]

I am quite familiar with the laws in NH, my goal in any situation is to not have to use force, and I was wondering where people stood on the issue. Some great input here. As I said before, my thought is the "if it out its because I'm intending to use it" is the way to go, my experience in responding to violent incidents as an EMT is that generally trying to out tough-guy the other person only leads to trouble whereas walking (or running) away generally can save you a major headache.

 

[JMusic]

Drawing your weapon would be only when you are "surprised" by a threat. In most situations if "you are aware" you should already have your weapon out. I usually hid it behind my leg or under my weak arm. Make no mistake about it no matter how fast you can draw you won't beat someone with their gun already out. People who say when I draw my weapon I'm shooting have never had the threat to begin with. When you point your weapon at someone thats when you better be ready to shoot. Be smart about your CCW and strive to never use it.


Jim

 

[rrruuunnn]

as a last resort. because, i don't want to end up in prison or a fugitive. sounds cliche, but that is what i'm thinkin about whenever i'm in that situation is legal problems. even innocent people end up in jail.

i act as if i don't have a gun at all until i really need it.

i have avoided a fist fight because i was on college campus. i didn't want to get expelled. the law keeps even law abiding citizens in line.

i once watched three guys waiting for someone to come out of a restaurant to fight him. after the first guy was fighting, a second one kicked the lone guy. it was 2 against one. since, i had my gun on me, i did not have the option to join that fight. which now, i think would have been stupid. it was none of my business to get involved unless the guy was in serious danger. now, that i carry i don't have the option to fist fight anyone, because they might take my gun as a prize.

 

[wcwhitey]

Start thinking about the law. If you are reasonably in fear that your life is "about" to be in imminent danger than you are fine to draw. Once drawn you have another opportunity to evaluate the situation (maybe milliseconds). If your drawn firearm deescalates the situation you have won and should run like hell. If you have to fire at least you have a chance to survive. I would never, repeat never, count on a gun to scare someone away or into submission. Always practice situational awareness to hopefully give yourself time to react and always practice avoidance when possible.

 

[ARTJR338WM]

I would like to recount a incident that happened to me about 17 years ago while working that realy shows the importance of your situational awereness. . I was an apprentice electricion at the time. My Journeyman at the time and I were in a truly bad neighborhood off 79th and the Dan Ryan expressway in Chicago. We absolutely had to get gas and we were working at a CTA bus barn near by.

I was dead and i do mean dead set aginst stopping in the neighborhood for gas, and i am 6'-2" and about 230lbs and can take quite good care of myself so to speek.

Well he was the JW and I had to go along with his orders. While gassing up the van three young males started towards us. We were at a isolated pump not near anyhing for them to be heading for, no public phones, it was at dead end more or less so thay could not be intending to simply walk by me, no garbage cans ets, in short nothing there but us and the work van. I was about only 1/3 of the way through a fill up so I turned around and asked them what exactly did thay want, thay gave no answer. Thay were if i remember about 10' away fom me and I noticed thay instantly increased their pace towards us after I spoke.

That was when i incorporated the only weapon i had at the time; the gas pump in my hand. I sprayed them down head to toe making sure to get their eyes and face more than anything. That was enough for use to get the hell out of there.

I often think what would have happened if thay had been smart enough to have waited till I finshed pumping the gas.