ATF attempting to shut down largest home-based FFL in Texas

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old lady new shooter

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We have already discussed in several threads how the ATF's new "zero tolerance" policy is being extremely zealously enforced. The latest tactic is that if an FFL had clerical errors sometime in the past, no matter how many years ago, which at the time were not determined to trigger revocation, they are going back and using them to revoke the license now. Washington Gun Law reports the experience of the largest home-based FFL in Texas, which is just such a case: The owner has been in business for over 30 years, and unlike some others who have been targeted he is not voluntarily surrendering his license.

 
Granpa sez: "It all started with Lloyd Bentsen claiming 'Gun dealers pay less than liquor merchants fer a license, something wrong witdat.' After awhile they removed 80% of 01 FFL's from the rolls, to the delight of the remaining 20%. Lots of them run out since and the greatly increased EFAT spends a lot of time going after those that take the trouble. Maybe if all the FFL's hung together in the '90's they could have avoided getting hung 1-by-1 now." Nah. Joe
 
old lady new shooter said:
We have already discussed in several threads how the ATF's new "zero tolerance" policy is being extremely zealously enforced. The latest tactic is that if an FFL had clerical errors sometime in the past, no matter how many years ago, which at the time were not determined to trigger revocation, they are going back and using them to revoke the license now. Washington Gun Law reports the experience of the largest home-based FFL in Texas, which is just such a case: The owner has been in business for over 30 years, and unlike some others who have been targeted he is not voluntarily surrendering his license.

Click to expand...

I’m not buying this YouTube story.
1) it’s YouTube
2) there are no other credible news sources with this story
3) from what I have seen, this YouTuber constantly tried to make mountains from mole hills just to promote his channel
4) in 2021 and 2022, the ATF has closed 11 of 11,000 Texas FFLs (that's 1/10 of 1%, certainly no need for any panic)
5) an FFL holder actually needs to be able to see to properly conduct business
Based upon these facts, there is no way I would send this guy any money.
 
I’d be cautious about a YouTube story leading to a crowdsourcing fund. Without more verification, this sounds like a good scam setup. Find a group of deeply committed people and hint their values are at risk, but you can help… I didn’t watch this video, so I won’t judge this case, but it’s something we all need to think about and do some research before committing any funding.
 
I have done business with them for decades. Used to stop by the Sportsmans Warehouse, exiting the highway, before it closed.

Always the best deals I could find without putting out my FFL buddies. Low profit from low overhead and loyal, repeat customers.

Sporting Arms Company

Sporting Arms Company - America's largest online firearms and accessories mall.
store.sportingarms.com store.sportingarms.com
 
Jamie B said:
I’m not buying this YouTube story.
1) it’s YouTube
2) there are no other credible news sources with this story
3) from what I have seen, this YouTuber constantly tried to make mountains from mole hills just to promote his channel
4) in 2021 and 2022, the ATF has closed 11 of 11,000 Texas FFLs (that's 1/10 of 1%, certainly no need for any panic)
5) an FFL holder actually needs to be able to see to properly conduct business
Based upon these facts, there is no way I would send this guy any money.
Click to expand...
tmd16556 said:
I’d be cautious about a YouTube story leading to a crowdsourcing fund. Without more verification, this sounds like a good scam setup. Find a group of deeply committed people and hint their values are at risk, but you can help… I didn’t watch this video, so I won’t judge this case, but it’s something we all need to think about and do some research before committing any funding.
Click to expand...

The report originated with The Truth About Guns.
www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Pattern of Harassment: ATF Targets Another Home-Based FFL - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ By Lee Williams Tom Harris has been selling guns out of his Lewisville, Texas home for 30 years. He is so respected and beloved by his customers that one gave him a kidney – literally – which saved his life. Dialysis wasn’t working well for Harris, owner of...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com www.thetruthaboutguns.com
 
Jamie B said:
I’m not buying this YouTube story.
1) it’s YouTube
2) there are no other credible news sources with this story
3) from what I have seen, this YouTuber constantly tried to make mountains from mole hills just to promote his channel
4) in 2021 and 2022, the ATF has closed 11 of 11,000 Texas FFLs (that's 1/10 of 1%, certainly no need for any panic)
5) an FFL holder actually needs to be able to see to properly conduct business
Based upon these facts, there is no way I would send this guy any money.
Click to expand...
I believe it.
1. The claim is verifiable and I know the dealer.
2. I linked to an article that inspired that stupid YouTuber.
3. You need to update your stats on closed FFL's in Texas. In just 2022, ATF revoked twelve. Thats revocations where ATF forced the licensee out of business. It does not include those who chose not to renew or voluntarily gave up their FFL.. Further, you are comparing revocations vs total number of FFL's.....thats not an accurate means of spotlighting the issue. More accurate would be the difference in revocations of those dealers who had a compliance inspection prior to Bidens zero tolerance policy vs those since he announced the policy change. 11,000 FFL's includes curio & relic FFLs.......who rarely if ever see an inspection.
4. I believe its only the YouTubidiot that's claiming the dealer disability is an issue.
5. Your facts are faulty, but you do you.
 
tmd16556 said:
I’d be cautious about a YouTube story leading to a crowdsourcing fund. Without more verification, this sounds like a good scam setup. Find a group of deeply committed people and hint their values are at risk, but you can help… I didn’t watch this video, so I won’t judge this case, but it’s something we all need to think about and do some research before committing any funding.
Click to expand...
In the time it took to write this post you could have read my link.;)
 
dogtown tom said:
In the time it took to write this post you could have read my link.;)
Click to expand...
The fact that they only revolked twelve just proves his point further. There were certainly that many if not more that deserved it. How many people in Texas were disbarred, or lost their real estate license, or shut down or fined out of business by the CFPB or another alphabet.

I spentt a long time in the industry and I still don't see the evidence of a widespread conspiracy to shut down FFLs. Seems to me thar rumor spreads through the industry every couple of years. I do hear a lot of yelling and screaming though
 
Agsalaska said:
The fact that they only revolked twelve just proves his point further. There were certainly that many if not more that deserved it.

I spentt a long time in the industry and I still don't see the evidence of a widespread conspiracy to shut down FFLs. Seems to me thar rumor spreads through the industry every couple of years. I do hear a lot of yelling and screaming though
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't.
One would literally have to have his head buried in the sand to not know that ATF revications are higher than any time in the last two decades.

ATF is literally reveling in this current "zero tolerance policy". They brag about it on their website.
If you've read any of my posts in the last seventeen years you'll note I don't post BS, conspiracy theories or the government is evil silliness.
I do post facts.

When the President announces a "Zero Tolerance Policy" to eliminate rogue gun dealers and my own IOI tells me the same..........that ain't a conspiracy bub.

Normally I ignore GOA, but this story is accurate: THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION’S ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY IS CRUSHING GUN SELLERS

How many people in Texas were disbarred, or lost their real estate license, or shut down or fined out of business by the CFPB or another alphabet.
Click to expand...
Heck if I know, and that's as relevant as asking how many clowns can fit in a VW Bug.
 
dogtown tom said:
No, it doesn't.
One would literally have to have his head buried in the sand to not know that ATF revications are higher than any time in the last two decades.

ATF is literally reveling in this current "zero tolerance policy". They brag about it on their website.
If you've read any of my posts in the last seventeen years you'll note I don't post BS, conspiracy theories or the government is evil silliness.
I do post facts.

When the President announces a "Zero Tolerance Policy" to eliminate rogue gun dealers and my own IOI tells me the same..........that ain't a conspiracy bub.

Normally I ignore GOA, but this story is accurate: THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION’S ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY IS CRUSHING GUN SELLERS


Heck if I know, and that's as relevant as asking how many clowns can fit in a VW Bug.
Click to expand...
I dont know man. I spent a lot of time in the industry and just don't see it. I hear and see a lot of people repeating the same stuff I heard 20+ years ago.

And I am going to guess that a lot of people understood my point about people losing their licenses in other professions.


But I will leave you to it. You are fighting the good fight.
 
old lady new shooter said:
The report originated with The Truth About Guns.
www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Pattern of Harassment: ATF Targets Another Home-Based FFL - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ By Lee Williams Tom Harris has been selling guns out of his Lewisville, Texas home for 30 years. He is so respected and beloved by his customers that one gave him a kidney – literally – which saved his life. Dialysis wasn’t working well for Harris, owner of...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com www.thetruthaboutguns.com
Click to expand...
This further strengthens my observations.
This story has extremely limited exposure, and it's extremely limited to niche pro gun sources.
There are zero non-gun news reports of this story.
There is no way this is credible, and smells heavily of a guy who can't run his business and is busy trying to get money by spinning a BS story.
No way I would send this grifter a dime.
 
dogtown tom said:
I believe it.
1. The claim is verifiable and I know the dealer.
2. I linked to an article that inspired that stupid YouTuber.
3. You need to update your stats on closed FFL's in Texas. In just 2022, ATF revoked twelve. Thats revocations where ATF forced the licensee out of business. It does not include those who chose not to renew or voluntarily gave up their FFL.. Further, you are comparing revocations vs total number of FFL's.....thats not an accurate means of spotlighting the issue. More accurate would be the difference in revocations of those dealers who had a compliance inspection prior to Bidens zero tolerance policy vs those since he announced the policy change. 11,000 FFL's includes curio & relic FFLs.......who rarely if ever see an inspection.
4. I believe its only the YouTubidiot that's claiming the dealer disability is an issue.
5. Your facts are faulty, but you do you.
Click to expand...
Oh my goodness - 12 instead of 11.
My assessment is still dead on correct.
I would not send this clown any money.
 
One of the stats that will lag or be subject to heavy manipulation is the number of licenses "voluntarily" surrendered to the ATF. A revocation has gone through an expensive adversarial hearing process that few have the time, money and determination for. Far more often, when faced with formal action or potential criminal charges, the FFL holder concludes they don't have time for the pain, license is surrendered and ATF action is never subject to scrutiny.

Other professions are also subject to review, continuing education and disciplinary actions, but if a professional license/livelihood is at stake, the standard is often "beyond a reasonable doubt". Not so with ATF--review is by chain of command, until and unless ultimately appealed to courts under an administrative procedures act. The case cited is one data point, but the big picture will become clearer with time.
 
Jamie B said:
This further strengthens my observations.
This story has extremely limited exposure, and it's extremely limited to niche pro gun sources.
There are zero non-gun news reports of this story.
There is no way this is credible, and smells heavily of a guy who can't run his business and is busy trying to get money by spinning a BS story.
No way I would send this grifter a dime.
Click to expand...
Tom Harris is a long time well respected gun dealer in DFW.
Calling him a grifter is another example of your ignorance.
Tom Harris didn't set up the GoFundMe.......one of his customers did.
His story was reported by the Second Amendment Foundation, hardly a gullible organization.

Its time for you to put up or shut up. If you have evidence that this story is false......then post it.
 
dogtown tom said:
Tom Harris is a long time well respected gun dealer in DFW.
Calling him a grifter is another example of your ignorance.
Tom Harris didn't set up the GoFundMe.......one of his customers did.
His story was reported by the Second Amendment Foundation, hardly a gullible organization.

Its time for you to put up or shut up. If you have evidence that this story is false......then post it.
Click to expand...
I’ve communicated my opinion based upon my observations.
I am comfortable with my logic and what I have studied.
I have seen zero information to tell me otherwise.
 
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