ATF House visit part II:

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We must send in a form 3310 for multiple handgun sales in a five consecutive business days. I always inform my customers of this and many will space out their purchases.
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I am not familiar with this required reporting. All of these forms amount to de facto registration.

The BATFE does not deny that the Form 4473 database exists, nor is it apologetic about it.
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Nevermind, I guess it is just plain old registration. The quote came from an article in guns and ammo.
 
We must send in a form 3310 for multiple handgun sales in a five consecutive business days. I always inform my customers of this and many will space out their purchases.
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OK, my question is, what if you bought a pistol at one gunshop, then you go and buy a pistol at another shop? That would be multiple handgun purchases in a 5 day period, so how would "they" know? I'm not looking for a way to "beat the law" or anything, this is a legit question. Say I wanted to buy two pistols at once, but my favorite shop only had one, so I bought it. Rather than ordering the other, I decided to check on another shop and they had the second one, so I bought it. I know people who might do this, myself included, because they want it right now, because they have the money right now, and if they don't buy both guns right now, they will just blow it on something else.

Sorry for the hijack:)
 
This is odd to me. I have made multiple handgun purchases, 3 at a time, and have never had issues. That aside, we are all guessing and whit-ifing here. I will restate, if all that you do is aboveboard, do not worry. Simply answer respectfully, fully and full-truthful. That is precisely what we as Ameicans owe our society. One parting fact, if this is costing you sleep hours to worry time, set a fomal "worry time", say from 2:00 to 2:30 during which time you can think about this problem. Then, at anytime outside of that prescribed .5 hour that you find yourself thinking about it, stop and tell yourself, this isn't worry time.

For may part, if I were in this circumstance, I would not worry. If they thought you were danergous, I assure you, you would be behind bar, rights? Relax, enjoy your handguns and go-on-with-life.

To the rest, chill.
 
Remember Martha Stewart. They got her for lying to a government agent, not because her stock dealings were illegal.
If the BATman trips you up and gets you to make contradictory statements, you are toast. Have that lawyer on speeddial at a minimum.
 
I've read about shady people who buy multiple handguns with the actual intent to sell them to ner-do-wells and the criminal ilk... can you imagine? Could it be that our beloved ATF agents are attempting to merely verify that in this particular instance, this was not the case and that the actual facts, once verified life will go merrily along?

Or failing that (and I am in no way casting aspersions on the OP or any High Road members) should said purchaser of multiple handguns actually be one who trafficks to ner-do-wells and criminal ilk, I would like to think that any and all here would laud our beloved ATF agents on a successful hunt and lockup of said "shady salesman". (again, I doubt any here at THR engage in such practice)

While it might be true that some in gov't bureacracies and/or politics would like to see every American disarmed, I really doubt in this instance that is the case.

But then again, I do recall some guy named Vernon Howell...

Here's hoping that all bodes well for alpha6164, Truth, Justice and The American Way. :D
 
Mr. Watson,

I do not know, nor do I disagree with you but, I was under the impression that lying wasn't a prosecutable offense unless you were under oath at the time of the utterance.

Statements like 'I didn't inhale' and 'I never had sex with Ms Lewinski' or Mr. Nixon's disclamer about Watergate come immediately to mind.

Maybe I've seen too many TV lawyer programs.

salty.
 
Salty, IANAL, but Stewart was charged with obstruction of justice, not perjury. Lying in general isn't a crime, but lying to cops opens you to charges like "obstruction of justice," or "filing a false police report," etc.

--Len.
 
OK, my question is, what if you bought a pistol at one gunshop, then you go and buy a pistol at another shop? That would be multiple handgun purchases in a 5 day period, so how would "they" know? I'm not looking for a way to "beat the law" or anything, this is a legit question. Say I wanted to buy two pistols at once, but my favorite shop only had one, so I bought it. Rather than ordering the other, I decided to check on another shop and they had the second one, so I bought it. I know people who might do this, myself included, because they want it right now, because they have the money right now, and if they don't buy both guns right now, they will just blow it on something else.
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Its a Brady law, it does not have to make any sense.
 
It is not "obstruction of justice" to lie to a police officer, no matter what they say on Law & Order, unless (and this is a big unless) a specific law makes it so.

It is a felony to lie to a federal law enforcement officer whether you are under oath or not. That's what got both Scooter Libby and Martha Stewart convicted. Some states have passed similar laws, though the state laws normally make it a misdemeanor. Check your own state's laws.

If you live in such a state, or are dealing with a fed, it is almost always better to say nothing.
 
So, if they are understaffed and all. I think they do let many multiple gun purchases slide. However the good doctor is also on Persian ancestry. They just busted Doctor/terrorist in the UK. So they saw a Doctor/Persian making multiple handgun purchases and they are looking into it. I think the ATF, DOJ, and other fed and state agencies are profiling, weather or not they admit to it.
I've purchased 6+ long guns at once (tax return, they were all milsurps/cheap) and never heard a thing about it.
 
I wouldn't think HK P7M8s and a MK-23 are usual criminal gunrunner fodder.

Heck, pretty much anything HK is way too upmarket for criminals, unless the guns are stolen.
 
Jim Watson said:
If the BATman trips you up and gets you to make contradictory statements, you are toast.
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A wise friend of mine once said, "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what you said. You only have to remember what you said when you're lying."

A friend of mine who was an attorney - as a goof - managed to get me to contradict myself within about 2 minutes, but it differences between the two statements were not substantive. If you tell the truth, and have nothing to hide, I'm not sure that you can be "tripped up" in any substantive way.

My guess is that Martha was trying to hide a little insider dealing.

Mike
 
saltydog452 said:
I do not know, nor do I disagree with you but, I was under the impression that lying wasn't a prosecutable offense unless you were under oath at the time of the utterance.

Statements like 'I didn't inhale' and 'I never had sex with Ms Lewinski' or Mr. Nixon's disclamer about Watergate come immediately to mind.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, Clinton was in fact prosecuted for false statements. The Constitution specifies the means by which a sitting President can be prosecuted. He was impeached by the House, and then tried by the Senate - where he was acquitted.

Mike
 
Sorry I missed the 'part I' post... but how many handguns did you purchase?

No real need to answer, but I will add my experience...

I purchased seven S&W Model 65s in a single instance back about ten years ago. These were police trade-ins for the NRA classes I teach.

I had two FFLs tell me to expect a visit from ATF, but either it never happened or I wasn't home and they didn't leave any card or note.

I've had a couple of mult. purchase forms go in since then and still no visits.

So, unless you live in an extremely anti-gun area or are violating local ordinances regarding handgun ownership, why would the ATF have such a keen interest in you?

John
 
[QUOTEI've read about shady people who buy multiple handguns with the actual intent to sell them to ner-do-wells and the criminal ilk... can you imagine? ][/QUOTE]

Doesn't our government do this all the time. Iran-Contra, Sandanista and Iraq come to mind. Our government is far more guilty of supplying ner-do-wells with weapons than the average american citizen ever has. I'm wondering just how many guns we have put into the hands of the Poppy Lords in Iraq.

Good luck on your inquiries from D'man. If I were you, I'd try to go visit him and bring him a picture of each and every one, then all together such that you can see and read the serial numbers. Beyond that, it's none of his business without a warrant. And, as for the "suspect one is stolen" angle.

Wouldn't an FFL catch that or the NICS be able to check that? I say this because they do give them the info when the FFL makes the call. I thought this was part of that process to insure the buyer he was not getting a stolen gun.
 
There is no way for a dealer to know if he has a stolen gun in his inventory. I guess some states register guns so it may be checked after the sale.

Here in Illinois there is no gun registration. The state just registers possible gun owners.
 
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