ATF releases updated Form 4473

[Juna]

http://www.atf.treas.gov/press/2007press/083007atf-revises-federal-transaction-form.pdf

ATF REVISES FEDERAL FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD FORM
WASHINGTON –

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) reminds federal firearms licensees that effective Sept. 1 they must use the revised Firearms Transaction Record Part I – Over-the-Counter (ATF Form 4473).

“In the immediate aftermath of the tragic events at Virginia Tech in April, many questions arose about whether the person responsible was prohibited under federal law from possessing a firearm and how the shooter passed the background check required before purchasing the two firearms used,” said ATF Acting Director Michael J. Sullivan.

“ATF is clarifying this form in an effort to make it clear that any person who has been found by a court board or other lawful authority to be a danger to self or others is prohibited from purchasing a firearm or ammunition.”

The form clarifies the question regarding “mental defectives” and incorporates the definitions of this term set forth in the regulations, 27 CFR 478.11. The revision also incorporates certain provisions of the Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005 (Public Law 109-162) by adding “tribal offense” and “Tribal Law” to the definition of Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence.

ATF is a principal law enforcement agency within the U.S. Department of Justice dedicated to preventing terrorism, reducing violent crime and protecting our nation. The men and women of ATF perform the dual responsibilities of enforcing federal criminal laws and regulating the firearms and explosives industries.

More information on ATF and its programs and resources is at www.atf.gov.
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[armed85]

Of course! It makes perfect sense that if there's a check box on a form that says you can't buy firearms, you would stop and say "oh well, I guess I wont shoot x number of innocent people."

I bet this cost a million tax payer dollars.

In the wake of the VT shooting, people should pull their head out of their rear ends and start to realize that feel good legislation doesn't work and we need more practical solutions.

The obvious one being that if a teacher or professor wants to defend himself or herself with a conceal carry gun that he or she should be allowed to do so. If it's concealed, it wont distract students from learning. Armed security guards and metal detectors, the liberal solution to everything, would make students feel like they're in a prison rather than a learning environment.

Ironically, public schools and colleges are about teaching young people to be sheep, so the prison atmosphere is appropriate. Another solution would be to reduce the influence of the bleeding heart liberals.

 

[Coronach]

OTOH, on the grand list of all possible invasive government responses, this ranks pretty low. I agree that allowing teachers to CCW would make sense, but this is also a decision that is NOT made at the federal level. Apples and oranges.

Mike

 

[Robert Hairless]

Does anyone think that this new form would have stopped Cho from buying the guns he used to murder 33 people at Virginia Tech or will prevent another deranged person from buying a murder weapon?

It would be a felony to lie on the form, of course, but I wonder if anyone planning to murder people would be concerned. Is it possible, do you think, that Cho or some other severely unstable person would respond that he had been found to be a danger to himself or others?

I suppose that the President of Virgina Tech, who conferred degrees on the 33 victims of Cho, might refuse to give Cho a degree too because he lied on the form but even that doesn't make sense to me.

On the other hand, it's good to see the BATF taking such a positive step to further protect good people from bad people. I guess.

 

[armed85]

It should not be made at the federal level, so I'm content.

I don't know what OTOH means.

 

[PercyShelley]

As it was explained to me, the 4473 serves as a legal document that you signed. If it turns out that you lied when you tried to purchase the gun, the BATFE can throw the book at your easily. Naturally, a piece of paper doesn't do much good to prevent someone with ill intent, especially if they stole their gun.

In my opinion, the change falls under the heading of "cover your ass security". You see this a lot with government security initiatives; the point of the security increase isn't so much to make things more secure, or to take scrupulous care to avoid infringing liberties, but merely to make it look like you're doing something.

 

[foxfire]

OTOH - on the other hand

ff

 

[target1911]

In the wake of the VT shooting, people should pull their head out of their rear ends and start to realize that feel good legislation doesn't work and we need more practical solutions.

YEAH BUT.....
It doesn't do any good to pull your head outta your REAR...
If ya don't wipe the POOO outta your eyes.

Anytime something happens they feel they must change SOMETHING. That way they feel that they have done more to help

 

[IA_farmboy]

I guess these people that spent so much time revising the 4473 forget that those that wish to do us harm don't care how many laws they have broken or will break. Didn't the students that shot up Columbine break 20 different firearm laws? Well let's make it 21 then, that will stop them! (I'm sorry, is my sarcasm dripping on your shoes?)

 

[TallPine]

They need to add yet more questions:

Are you crazy? Yes No

Are you planning to use this gun to commit a mass murder? Yes No

Do you think this form is stupid? Yes No

 

[JamesM]

....

 

[joab]

I agree that allowing teachers to CCW would make sense,

And create another privileged class???

the 4473 serves as a legal document that you signed. If it turns out that you lied when you tried to purchase the gun, the BATFE can throw the book at your easily.

Care to take a wild guess at the number fo those felons and fugitives prevented form purchasing each year according to the Bradys have been prosecuted for falsifying that federal form.

Last I heard it was hovering right at 1 to 2%
BATF said the reason was that they would "grind to a halt" if they prosecuted all of those felonies
But let an FFL allow you to abbreviate the word Street

 

[wally]

Care to take a wild guess at the number fo those felons and fugitives prevented form purchasing each year according to the Bradys have been prosecuted for falsifying that federal form. Last I heard it was hovering right at 1 to 2% BATF said the reason was that they would "grind to a halt" if they prosecuted all of those felonies

I think we need a Constitutional Admendment to force all such unenforcable laws to be null and void so Law Enforcemnet could concentrate on real crimes.

Yes this would effectively legalize the dopers, but let them die happy on USP pure drugs at free market prices -- winos don't generally commit significant crime to stay drunk as they can simply get what they need per day picking up aluminum cans and/or panhandling.

--wally.

 

[MD_Willington]

What is a “tribal offense” or “Tribal Law”?

Native Americans conduct their own policing of reservation land. Nez Perce Tribal Police Department is one of these Police forces in my area.

Going by that we can assume it would be an offense on tribal land.

 

[chieftain]

the real irony in all this is that the court found that criminal do not have to answer these questions, and that they cannot be brought against them.

Violation of self incrimination.

Now, say again why we honest law abiding folks have to fill it out?

Go figure.

Fred

 

[230RN]

bATF is clarifying this form in an effort to make it clear that any person who has been found by a court board or other lawful authority to be a danger to self or others is prohibited from purchasing a firearm or ammunition.

What's "other lawful authority?"

Is that defined anywhere? Any Commisioned Peace officer? A licensed Social Worker? An unlicensed therapist?

And what's this about "or ammuniton?" I sure hope we aren't going to have to fill out a 4473 to buy ammo.

What, me paranoid? Not after seeing how these things grow and grow and grow over the years.

------
Ragsdale45: Any time you hit one of those acronyms, you can bring up another copy of your browser and google it up. Chances are excellent that the definition will appear right in the output from google without actually having to go to the site defining it. Then you can task-switch (ALT-TAB) right back to the site you were looking over.

Example:

 

[MEH]

I feel so safe now that the BATFE has updated form 4473!

 

[Baba Louie]

I feel so safe now that the BATFE has updated form 4473!

As well you should, because NOW, when someone purchases a firearm from a licensed dealer and correctly answers the additional revised questions, should that person later flip his or her lid, it can be shown that either:
a.) additional revised questions are needed which requires additional funding, or
b.) additional funding is needed to network ALL governmental (including Tribal) and medical (mental health) agencies into NICS database, or
c.) nothing any governmental agency can do on paper will stop a here-to-for unknown armed depressed wack job from becoming a known armed depressed wack job until after the fact and thus it is the gunshop's/firearm industry/NRA's fault and obviously more funding is needed.

But at least, someone did something, like closing the barn door after the critters have run away.

At least we have not yet gotten around to requiring fingerprints and DNA samples when filling out the 4473, but you can bet that if I'm thinking about it, someone else in authority is as well and all it will require is... some additional funding.

It won't stop crime, but it'll look like someone is doing something. That illusion is important. I guess. We simply have to look to our neighbor to the north and see how cost effective additional funding for gun owner registration/control is.

And then we'll be sooo safe.
er... Saf-er.

I'm not sure why, but I'm beginning to think about Prometheus' gift to mankind of fire and the penalty that the Zeus made him pay for his act. There's got to be a mixed metaphorical simile (or is it allegory?) in there somewhere...

Ritual sacrifice, maybe? Daily liver eating eagle? Where is Hercules when you need him?

 

[Mannlicher]

like anyone is going to answer yes to "I am a nut case, and folks around me are in eminent danger"

All this will do is give the prosecutor another thing to charge the perp with after the deed is done.

 

[Robert Hairless]

My own favorite question on ATF Forum 4473 is 12 D:

"Are you a fugitive from justice?"