Attempted break-in, shooting, 911 recording...redux

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pogostick

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Bowling Green, KY
I would like to preface this repost with:
Jeff White said:
This is the Strategies and Tactics Forum. I'm closing this thread and asking the OP to restart it. Anyone posting off topic comments about searches, newspapers, or the criminal lifestyle will have their posts deleted.

On topic discussion will include things like what was said during the 911 call, what could have been said better...what the victim could have done better..etc.

Folks this is Strategies and Tactics not General Gun Discussions..........

Jeff


http://www.bgdailynews.com/articles/...news/news2.txt

The link is to an article from my local paper. After the 5th paragraph there is a media player that has the 911 recording from the incident referenced in the article. The recording goes from just after the shooting to after the police arrive. You hear the victim from just after the shooting to just after the police arrive.

I read all the time about what-ifs, how-tos and after-the-facts, but this recording provides a different type of lesson - reality. Guess we all might wonder a little about how the interaction would go with responding officers after a shooting and we get to learn a little about that here.

I think this link will go into archive in a day or two so I'll paste the article below and have posted the 911 recording on YouTube, here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55K7vkwD49Y

So I'm posting this in Strategies and Tactics because this is a phase of the process I'm not sure many people focus on or not.
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No charge in shooting
Grand jury says shooting of teen suspected of break-in was justified
By BURTON SPEAKMAN, The Daily News, [email protected]

A Warren County grand jury decided Wednesday that a Bowling Green man was justified in shooting a 15-year-old boy who was apparently attempting to break into his home.

Eros Berisaj, 15, was fatally shot in the head at about 5:11 p.m. April 3 at 525 Creekwood Court by the homeowner, Jeff McGuire. The case was presented to the grand jury, which issued a “no true bill,” declining to charge McGuire.

In response, Berisaj’s family said they still had questions about what happened to the teen, while McGuire’s attorney said his client will now be able to move on with his life.

According to the police investigation, McGuire was sleeping in his home when he heard a banging and then glass breaking on his rear door. McGuire told police as he went to the back door he could see an arm coming through the glass, attempting to open the door, and he fired several shots.

Immediately after the shooting, McGuire called police and reported the incident. While being questioned by the 911 dispatcher, it took several minutes before McGuire realized the person he had shot was a juvenile, according to the 911 recording.

While the dispatcher was attempting to calm McGuire, telling him it was going to be OK, McGuire responded, “It’s not going to be OK. I just shot a kid.”

Later in the call, McGuire mentioned that Berisaj had not moved for several minutes and that he didn’t know that the teen was apparently unarmed when he shot him.

“I guess it’s better him than me,” McGuire said during the 911 call.

During the call, McGuire also stated he needed to move out of Bowling Green.

Three shots were fired and only one struck Berisaj, according to the report. The bullet hit toward the rear of Berisaj’s head and lodged near the bridge of his nose. Berisaj fell face down on the rear porch of the residence.

Police found three shell casings, a rock that had been thrown through the glass door, two shotguns and the handgun used to shoot Berisaj inside the home, according to the report. Three other handguns were found inside a safe in the home. The back door of the residence had braces because of a previous burglary, according to McGuire.

Kentucky law allows a homeowner to use lethal force to stop someone from committing a burglary, robbery or any other felony utilizing force at his or her home. McGuire also had a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Kentucky.

Chris Cohron, commonwealth’s attorney for Warren County, said he agreed with the grand jury’s decision, but had no additional comment.

McGuire will now be able to now move on with his life, said J.B. Hines, a Bowling Green attorney representing McGuire.

“Hopefully this will serve as a message (that) the people of Bowling Green are tired of being victims of crime,” Hines said.

Saban Ferizi, Berisaj’s father, said Wednesday it doesn’t make sense that someone can kill another person and not spend any time in jail.

The family has waited for 3 1/2 months for information about what happened to Berisaj, he said. Ferizi said he still has unanswered questions about the case, and why an autopsy was permitted after the family had requested one not be done.

Police investigators didn’t talk to Berisaj’s family about how he might have gotten to the house, Ferizi said.

Berisaj’s family will be provided a copy of the case file, said Officer Barry Pruitt, spokesman for the Bowling Green Police Department, which officially ended its investigation of the case with Wednesday’s grand jury decision.

According to the investigation report, detectives did inform the family about the autopsy and spoke multiple times with family members about the case. There were some questions the detectives could not answer because it would interfere with the investigation, according to the report.

Berisaj was considered a suspect in several burglaries in the same area where the shooting occurred, according to the report. People interviewed during the investigation also indicated there were at least two other people who could have been with Berisaj when he was shot, according to police records. There had been another burglary at McGuire’s residence several months before the shooting; McGuire had also told neighbors about someone peeking into windows before the burglary.

Other neighbors told police about suspicious activity in their neighborhood in the weeks before the shooting. One neighbor on Creekwood Drive said a teenager had come to her door twice asking if another teen lived there, according to the report. Another neighbor said someone was looking through a back window of a vacant home on Creekwood Drive, according to the report.

The investigation indicates that Berisaj might have been working with someone older who would identify a house to break into, and then Berisaj would actually steal items such as laptop computers and other electronics, according to the investigation.

The witnesses stated that Berisaj would brag about the burglaries in school, according to the report. Most of the witnesses were students at Moss Middle School and were not named in the report because they are juveniles.

The older individual would provide marijuana and money to Berisaj in return for the stolen items, witnesses told police, according to the investigative report.

No one else has been charged in connection with the burglaries, according to the report.
 
Am I the only one that noticed that this guy did , almost in order, exactly what the gun gurus here on THR say you should never do in a HD shooting?

He:

1. Shot through the door W/out identifying his target

2. Called 911 and the first words out of his mouth were " I shot somebody"

3. (This is my personal sacred cow) He made an explicit recorded statement to a cop ( or a cop's agent) W/out consulting a lawyer.

4. And repeatedly stated remorse over the shooting and even implied that he shouldn't have shot ( " No, it's not OK. I just shot a kid)

And yet he still got " No Billed".
 
I don't recall mention of the home owner giving a verbal command to leave, stop, get out, hey you, what the $%#@ do you think your doing, or anything of the kind. Leave right now or I will shoot!!! Would that be more appropriate before shooting? What if the kid had ran away? Don't misunderstand my comments. I realize the home owner had no idea how many threats there were, were they armed, to many variables mixed with a lot of adrenaline to take a chance I suppose.

The bullet hit toward the rear of Berisaj’s head and lodged near the bridge of his nose. Berisaj fell face down on the rear porch of the residence.

This makes me wonder if he was starting to run. Maybe is head was turned against the door in order to get a longer reach.

Sad someone had to die, but the message should be loud and clear.
 
A good shoot is a good shoot. Breaking into someones house at night is almost always a valid reason to get shot.
 
No warning...

Shooting blindly multiple times through a door...

No real threat...braced door...

Blabbing without any care for legal position...

Bad shoot.

He panicked.

Caught a break.

He'll still have to resolve what he done. Poor guy. He sounds like a guy who can understand that he killed someone without really having to.
 
Breaking into someones house at night is almost always a valid reason to get shot.

I'd have to agree with that. Burglars should routinely be in real fear for their lives for invading another person's home. I would not assume for a moment that the creepozoid smashing in my window or door will not try to kill me if discovered.

If everbody played fair I suppose you could yell out a warning and everyone would just go home - no harm no foul. On the other hand you might have just surprised an armed tweaker who starts shooting at you. It might be too late to protect yourself at that point.
 
This occured in broad daylight.

I don't necessarily question the shoot, I just think it's interesting that he did the exact opposite of prevailing opinion here and still walked.
 
Wow - what a dose of reality - all the intellectual discussion and parsing of the facts does nothing to help him deal with what he did. Right or wrong - he's paying a tremendous cost in his own mind.
 
"The case was presented to the grand jury, which issued a 'no true bill,' declining to charge McGuire."

That makes it a good shoot.

"Saban Ferizi, Berisaj’s father, said Wednesday it doesn’t make sense that someone can kill another person and not spend any time in jail."

It's called self defense. You raised a criminal and he was shot during a criminal act.

I don't agree with everything the man did, but the law says he was within his rights. That's the bottom line.
 
acousticmood Wow - what a dose of reality - all the intellectual discussion and parsing of the facts does nothing to help him deal with what he did. Right or wrong - he's paying a tremendous cost in his own mind.

Exactlly.

He will most likely play that back in his mind many, many, times in years to come. I hope he is able to deal with it and realize he was justified. If not, future decisions could be impacted when faced with similar circumstances. The slightest delay, or wrong decision, could cost him dearly.

It is unfortunate the bad guy put him in that position. That would anger me, though it might take me some time to that point. Bad guys be warned!
 
:rolleyes:
"Saban Ferizi, Berisaj’s father, said Wednesday it doesn’t make sense that someone can kill another person and not spend any time in jail."
 
No real threat...braced door...
I wouldn't even begin to say that just because the door is braced that there is no real threat. Anyone or anything trying to break into your house is a threat.

Of course he'll have to deal with what he did, but I'm going to say good shoot.
 
Saban Ferizi, Berisaj’s father, said Wednesday it doesn’t make sense that someone can kill another person and not spend any time in jail.
It's not hard to see how the kid ended up dead, with a father possessed of those thought processes. I don't have any kids, but all of my friends who do have tried to teach them the skills necessary to stay ALIVE. This clearly wasn't the case here.

Once any part of the intruder is in the dwelling, things go downhill for him fast. It's not unlike the case of the insane drunk Scotsman in Texas (Houston?) who drank himself out of his mind, hailed a cab, bailed in a residential neighborhood, scaled a high fence, then began kicking in a guy's back door. The victim told "Scotty" to stop or he'd be shot. The Scotsman continued, finally kicking in the bottom of the door. He's now a DECEASED Scotsman, and that homeowner was also no-billed. It sent Brits in usenet into an insane rage at the time. They were beside themselves at the idea that it wasn't safe to drink until you'd lost your mind, then violently invade strangers' homes. Oh the humanity!
 
Of course he'll have to deal with what he did, but I'm going to say good shoot.
And it's a lot easier to "deal with" when you're alive. As I mentioned in another thread, I saw a "Cold Case Files" the other night where a homeowner DIDN'T shoot a home invader. He's dead, his wife was raped, the house was set on fire, and his wife's going to have to live with that for the rest of HER life. I think replacing the carpet where the intruder would have bled out would have been much easier to get over.
 
By fifteen, a kid should know right from wrong. They should also know that doing criminal acts, particularly feloneous ones, can get them killed.
I don't think the 911 call itself hurt Mr. McGuire in that he was clearly surprised it was a kid. Some kids are tall/large enough to pass as an adult.
Again, the atmosphere in KY is a big part. Had this happened in some other places, he likely would have been going to trial.
 
I find the comment about having a KY CWP interesting and totally unrelated to the story. This guy was in his home. For goodness sake, you don't need a CWP to defend your home.

I do agree that he talked way too much, but I can only imagine what was going through his head at the time. Having his home broken into for the 2nd time may have hastened his reponse to shoot.

Unfortunately, this guy will have to deal with killing someone for the rest of his life. I hope he can find peace with himself.
 
FieroCDSP says: Again, the atmosphere in KY is a big part. Had this happened in some other places, he likely would have been going to trial. :scrutiny:

This is why Castle Doctrine needs to be adopted in every state, as we have here in SC.
 
A burglary is not always "just" a burglary

I don't have the benefit of the omniscience possessed by those with the nerve to second guess the homeowner here, but I do know, as all those of us in CT now know, that a burglary isn't always "just" a burglary, and a 15 year old burglar sometimes (often?) isn't always "just" a burglar whether now, or or later when he (she?) turns into a 27 year old murderer, child rapist and arsonist. Relevant excerpt below, link to one of hundreds of full stories after that.

Arrest Record Details Komisarjevsky's History In Justice System

Komisarjevsky's criminal record indicates he first entered the system on March 11, 2002, when he was 21 years old and was arrested on charges linked to 10 burglaries in Bristol.

In addition to the 10 Bristol charges, Komisarjevsky was also charged with two burglaries in Burlington in March, six burglaries in Cheshire in May and one burglary in Farmington in November.

Police have called Komisarjevsky a cat burglar who has burglarized homes close to his own in Cheshire. Working alone, police said he cut window screens in the backs of the houses and entered while people slept. For the most part, police said Komisarjevsky stole high-end electronics, including DVD players and stereos, in addition to grabbing women's purses and cash.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745324/detail.html
 
Not "just" a burglary II

. . . and this is the list of charges filed against the "burglar" after he raped an 11 year old while his accomplice raped and murdered her mother, then set her house on fire. So I suppose the "bad shoot" critics would prefer we all conduct a detailed line of questioning, maybe with a bright light and a "where were you on the night of the 15th" opening gambit, to determine whether its "just" a burglary or an attempt to kill us, rape our wives and kids and set our house on fire.

On Monday, police arrested Joshua Komisarjevsky, 26, of Cheshire, and Steve Hayes, 44, of Winsted in connection with the deaths of the wife and two daughters of Dr. William Petit Jr. State police first announced on Tuesday the charges filed against Komisarjevsky and added charges of capital felony murder on Thursday. The charges against Komisarjevsky include:

One count:
First-degree assault (of William Petit)
First-degree aggravated sexual assault
First-degree burglary
First-degree arson
First-degree conspiracy to commit arson
First-degree robbery
First-degree larceny
Two counts:
Risk of Injury to a Minor
Six counts: Capital Felony
Murder of two or more persons (Hawke-Petit, Hayley, Michaela) at the same time and in the course of a single transaction
Murder of a person under 16 (Michaela Petit)
Murder of a kidnapped person (Hawke-Petit)
Murder of a kidnapped person (Hayley)
Murder of a kidnapped person (Michaela)
Murder of a person during a first-degree sexual assault (Michaela)
Six counts: First-degree kidnapping
Kidnapping of Michaela
Kidnapping of Hayley
Kidnapping of Hawke-Petit (with intention to compel third person to pay or deliver money or property as ransom)
Kidnapping of Hawke-Petit (restrained the person and abducted with the intent to accomplish or advance the commission of a felony)
Kidnapping of Hawke-Petit (restrained the person abducted with intent to terrorize her or a third person)
Kidnapping of William Petit

SOURCE: Court documents obtained from New Haven Superior Court

Komisarjevsky remains held on $15 million bond after facing a judge on Tuesday. The cases for Komisarjevsky and Hayes have been transferred to a New Haven court. Both are scheduled to appear in court on Aug. 7, at which time, they could possibly enter pleas.
 
High profile case, RLGreen. I remember thinking immediately after "What if they'd had a gun to defend themselves with during the initial break-in?" A good example of the kind of situation that Castle Doctrine (and you'd think common sense) is designed to cover.
 
High profile case, RLGreen. I remember thinking immediately after "What if they'd had a gun to defend themselves with during the initial break-in?" A good example of the kind of situation that Castle Doctrine (and you'd think common sense) is designed to cover.
But don't you know? The homeowner would have felt FAR worse for having killed the two home invader/rapist/murder/arsonists than for the loss of his family... or so anti-gunners often tell me in cases like that.
 
"better him than me,”

To which you hear the LEO reply, "Better him than you, partner"

It always amazes me how different the attitude can be around the USA. If this happened in (insert name of major metropolitan city here) the homeowner would probably be face down on the pavement and handcuffed.

Somehow the common sense of homeowner + broken window + dead intruder gets confusing in some areas.
 
Police have called Komisarjevsky a cat burglar who has burglarized homes close to his own in Cheshire.

Anybody else raise one eyebrow at that line, or am I just a bit off?
 
Eesh... why is the operator trying to get the full back story here?

I'm also a bit confused as to why she's asking about the perp's race so much. By the time she starts on that one again we're about 4:50 into the tape and we've pretty well established that the perp is dead from a gunshot wound to the head. What? Like the police are going to get there and not be able to figure out who's who?
 
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