Attention experienced riflemen: Question on scope mounts

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DesertRat

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Mar 3, 2003
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American Southwest - Born and Raised
Hi,

I'm wondering if a few experienced rifle guys (hunters) would share their wisdom on what constitutes reliable permanent rings and bases for mounting a Kales scope on a new Winchester Model 70 Classic Super Grade in '06.

I've done some queries here and on other boards and I'm somewhat mistified. I see all manner of advice on what constitutes the best setup for a sniper type rifle. Most curious are those who push all the high end tactical stuff, i.e. Badger Ordnance this, Leupold 20x+ variable that, scope ring lapping, etc, etc.

Frankly, most of this advice appears to be a bunch of misguided "help". For instance, I have an old Remington Model 760 pump gun with a 4x Weaver using Weaver mounts. This was my grandfathers rifle and it has been used hard for over 50 years. The rings were never "lapped" and the this setup has never failed under any conditions. It still holds perfect zero at 200 yards as it did the day it was mounted.

Now, surely there has been some genuine improvements in scopes / mounts during the past couple of decades; however, I don't see how these tactically minded companies can make claims about how one needs to purchase their expensive & gimmicky rings / bases to avoid warped scope tubes, etc.

Jeez, makes one wonder how the old-timers ever survived with their 'weak' non-tactical equipment. In a nut shell, I'm not a weekend Rambo with a 1000 yard 16lb sniper rifle who enjoys making holes in paper man targets. I am a hunter who is getting back into the game after a lengthy absence. I will be hunting deer, elk, antelope and whatever else for which I may get drawn.

I don't intend to offend those with a desire to practice long range target / tactical shooting, as this type of sport certainly has its place and can be a valuable skill. I'm just more interested in building a durable and reliable hunting rifle--a subject which seems to get little attention these days.
 
Well, since you're not shooting paper or animals at extreme range, I would go simple. Leupold and other companies make a nice double dovetail scope mount which I have been using for a few years-no windage knobs or screws, nothing fancy at all. I don't know for certain if they come with a one piece base or just two piece, if that is a concern.

The only thing you hope for is the threaded holes in the receiver are pretty straight so you aren't using all of your windage adjustment getting zeroed.

The "tactical" stuff certainly has its place when your shots are way out there, but for anything under 500 yards, a good quality base and rings should do you just fine.
 
I've used Weaver bases and rings for over 50 years on many different rifles. Never had a problem.

If you're shooting out at 800 and 1,000 yards, many scopes don't have enough adjustment to zero the rifle. In such cases, the slant-setup rings and bases are needed. For normal ranges to, say, 500 yards, standard stuff does just fine.

Conetrols are purtier. :)

Art
 
Don't mess w/success. Worked for gramp, works for you. OTAY, let's look at it again. You want a tactical rifle, then get stuph like Badger. It's certainly higher quality than Leupold MK IV rings. On my 700 LTR, I used Leupold QR. :eek: Why? The scope is a Tasco 10x40SSM and they're susceptible to failure when the Leupold MK IVs are used on them (compression leads to problems with the side focus). Besides, I wanted to try to keep it light (and affordable since I bought the rifle and scope used).

Conetrols are the purdiest you can ask for. Problem is is that I've nothing worthy of them. :( If you want your gun to be a hunting arm and you have a fancy walnut stock, then I'd go Conetrols.
 
Desert Rat;

You might think about doing this: Get a one foot long chunk of 1" steel bar stock from a machine shop. have them take the scale off, just emory paper it in a lathe, should come out around .998". Use this to turn in dovetail rings & align the front & rear rings. It will show you if anything is awry in both axis's. This should cost you under $10.00.

Get Leupold's single piece bridge base, dovetail front & windage rear. These are very rugged. Use the rings of choice, but Leupold's will match the blue & are utterly dependable. Mount your scope yourself & go hunting.

900F
 
I mostly use Talleys these days. Top quality, virtually unbreakable, and some of the nicest people in the business. Conetrols are also outstanding, extremely beautiful, but a royal pain to install. I've never seen or heard of a failure of either Talleys or Conetrols.

If you do go with the Conetrols, I suggest either having a GOOD gunsmith install them or setting aside a whole afternoon for the job. It's one of those jobs where you run out of hands to hold things in place. BUT, once they're mounted, NOTHING looks better, and you'll never have to mess with 'em again.

Oh, if you go for either the Talleys or Conetrols, bring money :D
Pricey but well worth it.

I don't care for the conventional rotary dovetail mounts because all the strength is in the front ring.

Best,
Joe
 
For a hunting rifle, I don't know of any style that wouldn't work just fine.

If you were to drop the rifle, the internal controls of the scope will generally jar loose (or the glass crack) before the rings or mount are going to shift.

That sounds like a very pretty rifle and scope, so I'd just pick rings and mounts that were pretty enough to be appropriate for it. Use Lok-Tite on all the screws when you put it on.

Keith
 
:) On such a fine rifle, only a very well made scope mounting system will do.

http://www.winchester-guns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=024&cat=001C

http://www.conetrol.com/mainpage.htm

The money will be well spent.
Time spent reading the Conetrol site will make why and how to use their product much more understandable.
Great product and fun reading, too.
I may use the Custum 1-pc. on my A-Bolt II .375 project, as I like the fact that all 4 mounting holes are used and the finish will match.
Good shopping, whatever you decide.
 
Thanks guys. :)

Conetrol it is!! Actually, I recognize the name and remembered that they have been around for quite some time ('64 according to their website). I had completely forgotten about them...

I believe Conetrol has exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks again.

DR
 
I am not sure what a "tactical" rifle is used for by the average guy, but for a scope mount it is a good idea to get one that can be removed without complex tools. You-know-what happens and if the rifle gets dropped and the scope wrecked, it is nice to be able to take it the heck off and use the iron sights. Of course, if the "tactical" rifle is carefully carried in a case and goes nowhere but the local range, such damage should never happen.

FWIW, I vote for the rugged old Weaver mounts; if the cartridge was heavier than .30-'06, I would recommend redrilling and tapping, using #8 screws instead of #6.

Jim
 
I started out with Redfield bases and rings, and now use Leupold bases and rings. The bases have all been the dovetail front & windage rear. I've never had a problem with any.
 
I personally like the Leupold dual dovetail mounts. I think they have cleaner lines on a rifle if there is such a thing. I have two mod 70's with that set up one is a .243 the other a .270 wsm and the both work great. I chose them after a friend shooting a 30-378 informed me that's what he used. I figure if they can survive a 30-378 they should work just fine on my rifles.

six
 
I like rings and bases with fewer parts, ie 1 piece base like you can get from Burris. As for lapping, most scope ring kits now come witha bit of compression tape to really make the rings fit tight. Put them on there and loc-tite them down, they should outlast the scope.
 
Conetrols, Leupolds, or believe it or not, Redfields. I feel that they're a highly underrated base/ring, and show a high degree of manufacturing quality.


"Jeez, makes one wonder how the old-timers ever survived with their 'weak' non-tactical equipment."

Quite frankly, I really believe that for most people most of this "tactical" crap is either a smokescreen, or a crutch, and serves only to separate the non-strategic thinker from his hard-earned cash.
 
Last edited:
Mike Irwin,

HAHAHA. LMAO.

Quote: "In the immortal words of Dogbert, I dream of a world in which I can buy alcohol, tobacco, and firearms at the same drive-in window, and use them all before I get home from work."

Actually here in Arizona there is just such a place--Ruff's Guns and Liquor located in Flagstaff, Arizona. They actually sell guns, liquor, tobacco and porn. It has been there for years. They only recently added the porn.

DR
 
Actually here in Arizona there is just such a place--Ruff's Guns and Liquor located in Flagstaff, Arizona. They actually sell guns, liquor, tobacco and porn. It has been there for years. They only recently added the porn.
The perfect store!!! :D
 
DesertRat. Rule number one. "...tactical..." Is a marketing buzz word. There's no such thing as a tactical anything except for a nuke. Tactical means small unit operations not the colour or type of firearm.
What's rule No. 1? If it works, don't fix it.
 
I believe rule #1 is "you get what you pay for."

All the inexpensive bases and rings will work for light use as in hunting situations. The prices of Badgers are high because they use a better grade of steel, hold much tighter tolerances, adhere to a military specification and are "top drawer" in every way. They are for someone wanting a more "hardened" system. There's nothing "gimmicky" about quality.

Another advantage is quick scope removal and replacement via a T handled torque wrench which would allow a prezeroed back up scope to be readily mounted without having to resight the rifle/scope combo in. This would be the way to go for someone who had paid a few grand for a hunt. Many hunters are unwilling to pay top prices for top equipment, and that is all right.......to each his own. To me it is folly to spend $500-800 and even more, on a scope and then hunt for the cheapest mounting solution. Look at the rifle/scope/mounting as a complete system. The weak link in most combinations are the rings and bases.....other than the shooter, that is.

The windage adjustable rear bases from Leupold and others will work, but the adjustment screws will come loose sooner or later and screw up your zero. Serious rifle shots think they are junk.

For the best for the least, a steel Weaver style cross slot base is the way to go. Almost every manufacturer makes a version of these. If you are interested in only hunting, does that mean you will only use the rifle during hunting seasons? If so, you should rethink your strategy......punching holes in paper will show you a lot about your rifle and your own shooting skills.......it'll make you better.

You have a fine rifle. I love the Winchester Model 70s, and currently have three. But at the risk of offending, I must admit that all three of my Winnies wear those "expensive" Badgers. Why? Quality scopes and rifles need top quality mounts. Now, this is just my 2 cents, and I expect each shooter to evaluate and decide what he really wants and needs. I wanted Badgers, so I saved a few bucks here and there, until I could buy them. Good shooting to all.
 
Good Rings

These may be a little on the low side for some, but I have always had great luck with Millet rings. I have a chosen Millet Rings on all of my rifles.
 
My chosen mounting system for a hunting/critter rifle would be Weaver-style bases (or a one-piece angled system for long range...), and Leupold's QRW rings. "Turn in" rings are a hassle, and are difficult to get right. A one piece base doesn't add any strength to the receiver, and will get in the way.
 
My father had a set of Milletts self-destruct in less than 20 shots on a Winchester Model 70 in .300 Ultra Mag. Not recommended for anything with significant recoil, IMO.

Best,
Joe
 
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