longeyes
member
Alien cultures = different values, not consonant with the historical legacy and political and social and cultural core of the nation.
Australian Race Riots
- Thread starter Cosmoline
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Borachon
Member
Maybe because you are ethnically similar to the people who currently run the United States. If you'd like to see some areas of the United States that show little or no multi-culturalism, I can take you to some Hispanic, African American, and Chinese neighborhoods.
If you think there aren't enclaves of people in the US who feel they aren't a part of the country, then I'd suggest you need to travel around some more.
Australia is having the same problem the US, France, Spain, Germany, and Britian are having. They want cheap labor but aren't willing to deal with the consequences of bringing a deliberately created underclass into their society.
Better to restrict immigration and make do on your own IMO.
longrifleman
Member
shootinstudent
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Incredible...a bunch of racists riot and beat up anyone with olive skin or darker, and people come out and blame "mixing of the races" for the problem.
The problem isn't race mixing or culture mixing. The problem is that some people just can't stand to see people of another color, or who are different...those people are called Nazis, racists, xenophobes, etc. I'm shocked to see folks defending their actions as the "natural result" of putting different peoples together.
How about, instead of making excuses for hatred based on skin color and culture, we start demanding that racists and rioters take some personal responsibility for this kind of trash? No one is forcing them to hate other people...there's no magic hatred gene that I'm aware of, nor are human beings so much like dogs that they can't be held responsible for having irrational hatred for other people.
longeyes
member
Personal responsibility--yes, I agree with that.
But let's acknowledge that atavistic behavior isn't unique to the yobs. Cultural insularity and narcissism appears to be the natural lot of mankind, transcended only by effort and desire. Always ascribing friction to white prejudice isn't an adequate explanation of what's going on.
But let's acknowledge that atavistic behavior isn't unique to the yobs. Cultural insularity and narcissism appears to be the natural lot of mankind, transcended only by effort and desire. Always ascribing friction to white prejudice isn't an adequate explanation of what's going on.
Old Dog
Member
Appalling, isn't it? I'm still trying to digest some of the remarks I've seen in this thread. As far as Reed's column ... looks like another one of his drunken posts from Mexico or Thailand, wherever he's hanging out these days. (Although, every now and then, Fred does entertain me and I even find myself in agreement with some of his thoughts).
shootinstudent
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Racism doesn't have to be our "natural lot." But it's true, there isn't anything about these rioters being white that makes them more culpable than a person of another race who does the same. It's always wrong...it just so happens that this incident has to do with white racists.
CAnnoneer
Member
Borachon said:
Exactly.
Except it is not the general population that wants cheap labor, it is their lords and masters. Uppity the local peasants have become, so the lords where passively where actively import some humble ones to undercut the labor market. Damn serfs, ay?
What we observing, ladies and gentlemen, are the effects of an established plutocratic aristocracy that dictate policy to the majority through officials elected by political contributions. The more insular, self-serving, and blatant these patricians become, the more damage they do, the more they destabilize the system that supports them. That is the irony of it all. Outsourcing, illegal immigration, and gun control are only a few of the tiles in the big mural of their work.
Cosmoline
Member
The problem isn't mixing of the races, it's a LACK of mixing of the races. There is no real Australian identity. It's still just a cluster of colonies on a foreign shore. The people living there have little in common with each other, and fights over the minimal resources are almost inevitable. Australia is exactly what you get if you keep ethnic and religious groups separated. You can see the same thing happening in France, where only racially French can become truly French, and everyone else is an etranger.
CAnnoneer
Member
shootinstudent said:
Racism is our natural lot. It does not have to be our chosen lot. Ergo what longeyes said.
shootinstudent
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Hmmm...considering that absolutely no record of significant racist thinking exists before the Renaissance days, I'd have to contest the "natural" moniker.
It was so unimportant to the Romans, for example, that they never made an issue of it, despite almost certainly having one of the most racially diverse populations the world has ever known.
+1 Cosmoline
CAnnoneer
Member
shootinstudent said:
ROTFLOL
You really should read about what the Vikings thought of Eskimos, the Russians of Huns, the Spanish and French of Moors. Even better yet, go further deep into history and read about what Egyptians thought of Greeks, Greeks of Dorians, and Minoans of the rest.
They did not make an issue because they always were on top of the food chain. Besides, they were notorious for looking upon provinces as herds for fleecing. Your point may have been more valid if made about religion instead, but when you believe in a pantheon, what are a few more deities to add? After all, the god of Rome always was the mighty Coin, worshipped universally.
hehehehe
longeyes
member
"Race" is one more vestige of collectivist thinking. Culture is important--but only so far as it promotes or doesn't promote individualism; the rest is interesting, instructive, valuable, but not determinative. We will arrive when race becomes one more physical datum like height, weight, or hair color. Multiculturalism is the new way of perpetuating racial distinctions that should be discarded.
longeyes
member
A debut post for the ages.
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Cosmoline
Member
peter400 said:
Man, that made my day!
I think I'm going to put some of that in my signature line.
Why is it these antis are always claiming I'm "hiding" in Alaska? When I've gotten in arguments with them on other forums that's a recurrent theme. The premise is apparently that only someone on the run would want to live here. Weird. Sometimes they will even claim I really don't live here, I guess because in their mind nobody really *lives* in Alaska, at least not year round.
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Cosmoline
Member
Type in "Peter400" on google. The results are very interesting, but I probably shouldn't post links to them here.
carebear
Member
I think he actually managed to hit every internet forum insult trope at once.
CAnnoneer
Member
peter400 said:
ROTFLOL
This guy is killing me!
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Okay, back to the race riots. Where were we? BTW, I was at the range this weekend and a guy had a Savage 10FP in .223. The whole rifle was painted purple and topped with a 16-24 scope. He was consistently hitting the gong @ about 400yds offhand. I was surprised at how loud a thump that little bullet made. Do you think a 16-24 scope is too much for a .223?
longeyes
member
Apparently not.
Was he near-sighted?
Was he near-sighted?
Borachon
Member
So how come Australia is experiencing this now and not during the 1960s?
If I'm not mistaken, Australia had a strict immigration policy until recently...correct me if I'm wrong; I'll admit I'm ignorant about most things Australian. But up until recently, the Australian identity was considered (in my region anyway) to be a bunch of Irish and English prisoners who were transported there as to serve in a penal colony. Some other immigrants also came later, but most tended to be European...and Christian. Correct me again if I'm wrong.
What I'm suggesting is that Australia DID have recognizable identity. An identity of largely white Europeans. After the immigration policies changed, Australia found itself with more than one identity.
To have maintained Australian identity would have only required that you restrict immigration. It's not racism and it's not bigotry. It's simply the acknowledgement that when you have two or more cultures that see their origins, their religious outlook, and their societal values as being different then you aren't going to see a mixture of cultures.
In my opinion, the US needs to be doing the same thing here in the US by closing our Mexican border to illegal immigration. The US runs the same risk of seeing violence because of cultural clashes. We even recently had a news article about the Mexican government sending literature to the US schools that portrays the US-Mexican War of the 1840s as illegal and criminal. Those sorts of messages do not help relations between the US and Mexico, and they don't help legal immigrants from Mexico to assimilate here in the US.
Better to stop the problem before it starts and keep them out.
Cosmoline
Member
The reason things are changing now is because other ethnic groups besides the Europeans are growing powerful enough to challenge the status quo. Before modern immigration Australia was European and Aboriginal, and of course the Europeans were able to do whatever they wanted to the Aboriginals up to and including stealing their children. But you're right to use the term "European," since there really is no Australian identity. What passes as an Australian identity is really just a working class British identity transported (literally) across the world and put down on a strange land.
Australia offers no national identity that newcomers can adopt. Could I move there and become Australian? Not really. I'd always be an American. In the US, foreigners have long been able to come and become AMERICAN, and the "American" identity has meant something. So we will see increasingly intractable racial problems in Australia.
As far as the Mexican immigration problem, it's certainly not good to see wholly autonomous populations of Mexicans in the US. But under the current immigration policy that's pretty much inevitable. A large wall coupled with an immigration system discouraging work visas and encouraging true citizenship immigration would be good. If someone wants to come here to be a citizen, they should be allowed. But bringing foreigners here to do work we don't want to is a bad idea.
Australia offers no national identity that newcomers can adopt. Could I move there and become Australian? Not really. I'd always be an American. In the US, foreigners have long been able to come and become AMERICAN, and the "American" identity has meant something. So we will see increasingly intractable racial problems in Australia.
As far as the Mexican immigration problem, it's certainly not good to see wholly autonomous populations of Mexicans in the US. But under the current immigration policy that's pretty much inevitable. A large wall coupled with an immigration system discouraging work visas and encouraging true citizenship immigration would be good. If someone wants to come here to be a citizen, they should be allowed. But bringing foreigners here to do work we don't want to is a bad idea.
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