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You goofs are "doing the research" by hitting this Troll's website so he can sell himself and his articles by appearing popular amongst "us".

He purposely did not post his website (his name here is the name of his website) so y'all would search for it, to prove people are reading his work(drivel) and able to SELL more of it.

Anyone see or get a response from this jackwad???

STOP HITTING THIS TROLL'S SITE:banghead:
 
Tilos You goofs are "doing the research" by hitting this Troll's website so he can sell himself and his articles by appearing popular amongst "us".

He purposely did not post his website (his name here is the name of his website) so y'all would search for it, to prove people are reading his work(drivel) and able to SELL more of it.

Anyone see or get a response from this jackwad???

STOP HITTING THIS TROLL'S SITE

Agreed, he has been online as recently as ten minutes ago, but has not responded to anything since Wednesday. He obviously just wanted to stir crap up and get some hits on his site.
 
He has PM-ed me as well.

The best assumption is he's considering his approach before taking another whack at the hornets nest.

His first entry was a bit ham-handed given the size and ferocity of these particular hornets.

Things have to start somewhere, or we go nowhere
 
Quote:
From the Dan Baum blog "Who Cares"

There may be some dark “real” reason that I like guns lurking under there -- something about my penis, perhaps, or a latent desire to dominate others by force.It may also be that I like guns for all the reasons I think I like guns.
I think the reason you like guns is a pretty simple thing. As a child it was the first time you were accepted in to the "big boys" club. You were finally put on par with your brothers by an outside male that seemed an adult to you.

Maybe that fear of guns comes from your politics. Do your politics come from the same place as your love of guns? Does it come from some early acceptance of your ideas by an authority figure?

You are the only one that can explain why you are of two minds on guns and gun issues. Maybe you should sit down and interview you. It may be the best interview you get from any gun guy. The tone of what you have written makes it hard to believe you will get much out of true "gun guys."

Maybe you should try to interview the author Stephen Hunter. He is a fellow journalist, pro gun, and a very respected member of the gun communit

Better yet, maybe he should interview Pax, or me. Seeing as to how we love guns and it very clearly has nothing to do with dangly bits.

Jan
 
"troll"

I'm not. And I haven't responded here because I've responding privately to those who sent me genuine, and polite responses. I'm eager to talk to any and all about this thing we do. I'm not avoiding anybody.
 
Dan,
I hope you're sincere about wishing to learn about guns and the 'gun community'.

From your previous descriptions of gun owners and firearms it appears that you've been gazing at them through a lens thickly tinted by what you've been told third-hand. It appears you've blundered in fully expecting to land on a pile of low hanging, stereotype-reinforcing fruit. You have been done a serious disservice both by those who have given you bad information and by those who have sent you out on what amounts to a paid hit piece.

Like nearly everything else in the world, I think you'll find that the reality of guns and gun enthusiasts is contrary and far more complex than the stereotypes.
Throttle back a bit
Have a seat
Put your feet up
Take some time
and above all LISTEN

Not only will doing so earn you an education but also maybe even a little respect. Trust sometimes even shows up once Respect has been around for a while. If you're willing to put the time and effort in, that is.
Show us.
 
I'm not eager to talk to you about my personal business, just like you aren't eager to talk to me about yours. If you are interested in paying for a story, well then that's another story. But how do we know what your intentions are or how you will edit whatever you get?

A good writer can make a story pro or anti, with a few words, why would anyone give you ammunition to be used against themselves?

Is it the ego that you feed off of, it sure is not the individual's right to follow the constitutions intent. Let us see what you have written so far. Allow us the privilege of seeing your work prior to your publishing it, otherwise I would advise against telling you stories that can be twisted into bad PR.
 
Dan,

I'd still like to see this addressed. Here, on your blog, somewhere. Point to me a place that has addressed this -

Our initial request for your current position

hso said:
If you've turned around ~175 degrees please explain how so and what your views are currently. Please remember that this is your opportunity to succinctly explain your current view of firearms, firearms owners and firearms ownership as well as your position on the failed assumptions behind "gun control". You've told us where you were on these issues in the past, but you've not actually explained where you are on them today.

BullfrogKen said:
Can we all agree to give Dan the opportunity to respond with the story of how his views changed, and what they are now, before this thread grows unmanageable?

Dan, I'm quite surprised this thread is only 4 pages by now. I'm amazed by the restraint shown by the membership in allowing you your chance to share your new views. I've seen similar topics started here before that quickly grow to hundreds of replies in a matter of days. But that time is running thin. I've read your words on your blog, and I'm not impressed.


danbaum said:
I come under a white flag, making a small, clumsy attempt to begin to correct that. I am ignorant; I admit that. I have much to learn; I admit that. I have ideas that are different from yours; I admit that. But where would you send me to learn? To the Brady Center?

The act of owning a gun does not make you a part of this "gun culture" you want to analyze in your book. Did you know Sarah Brady owns a gun? She does. She even has a Carry Permit.

This spring I had a conversation with a particular legislator from Philadelphia at his office in the capitol, Harrisburg. I won't identify him publicly, but I'll share with you what he told me when I challenged him to back off from advancing more gun control in Pennsylvania.

He told me we were not that different, he and I. Like your words from earlier, he attempted to connect with me. -
danbaum said:
I am lifelong shooter, and have been a hunter and gun collector my whole adult life

So he told me he owned guns. Knowing I was there that day to speak on the issue of the "Castle Doctrine", he told me he'd been shot before by criminals, and lifted up his shirt to reveal the scar. He told me he had his PA License to Carry, and his gun was out in his car as we speak. But he still thought that only certain types of people should own guns, and that a gun ought to be very tough thing for people to acquire, own, and carry.


In the end, I told him we are very different people. We both owned guns. We both carried one to protect ourselves. Yet I didn't see people the way he did. And I certainly didn't see the right with the restrictions he did. He's an elitist, and as long as you met his criteria you could own one and have it with you to protect yourself. If not, you couldn't. At least if it were up to him, anyway. Sarah Brady's an elitist, too. She wants her gun, but the rest of us simply can't be trusted with one.



My request was both polite and genuine. So was Mike's.

It's going to become tough to overcome your silence on that request. Especially considering that you supported infringing the right, all the while being a self-proclaimed "lifelong shooter and gun collector your whole adult life".

I need a reason to trust you. We've all been burned by the media too many times before. I don't need to hear a conversion story like Saul's on the road to Damascus, but I do need to see your current views expressed somewhere, and why you changed them.
 
Since you don't appear to be a troll I suppose I'l post why I love firearms and
how I got started in them. I trust that you will not try to twist my words around.
BTW when your book is finished let use know the name.

I started writing it and it's was just way to long for a post so I typed it up in Google Docs and made it public for all to read.
Clink the link here.

Now that I have extended my hand to you I would like to see yours extended to us. Let's here your story and a little more about you acclaimed 175 and just what that last 5 is.
As it was once said by Reagan: "Trust. but verify."
 
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I wrote some words the other day. I was trying to organize them under the banner of Straw Man being created to trample human/gun rights in the name of "safety" or "the children". I don't remember, frankly, whether I deleted the post because I just couldn't seem to make my point succinctly enough, or whether one of our mods burned it because it was "political". I hope I deleted it.

Here's the bottom line regarding firearms in my view. When we were in grade school the teachers/nuns always reduced everything to the lowest common denominator and maintained control of 60 students in a classroom by threatening the bulk of us with punishment on account of the 3 or 4 screw ups. Unfortunately, some folks never got out of that mindset with respect to firearms.

The vast majority of Americans are peace loving, normal folks not wanting to be bothered by or bother anyone. We just want to live our lives according to the way things were set up a couple hundred years ago. Leave me alone, do gooder/government man, and my neighbors and I will get on just fine.

The rather small underbelly of America; the criminal, the incorigable, the unfriendly, and the dangerous are really a very small portion. Yet the do gooders, lets use the term statist for them, want to reduce everything to the lowest common denominator just like in grade school. The trouble is that the vast majority of us outgrew that fear tactic. We are adults and we don't need to be controlled. In fact we resist it. We like a bit of order and we'll support that. Witness the tea party movement for example. These people are not your run of the mill protestors. They are normal Americans who've discovered they have had enough and are stepping up and stepping out. Our history is rife with folks like that, who stepped up and stepped out for various reasons. Our nation was, is and can be better as a result of it. I've seen monumental changes in my 67 years. Most of it good.

In other words, I'm not a criminal and I have a right to protect myself and my family and perhaps even my neighbor. I have a right to walk around free. I can speak out. I can deal with whom I please and not with anyone I don't please. I can choose where I labor, or who I can spend what I earn with. I'ts not a perfect system, so I'm thoughtful and careful. I'm not harmfull, but I am not by any strech of the imagination harmless. The law of the land guarantees this.

So, I say, quit trying to save me from myself by taking away freedoms that were bought and paid for by the blood of Americans who have gone before us.

No, I'm not going to bury my firearms. I frankly don't seem to see the need. America is much more peaceful than some would paint it. I think someone said in an earlier post that if there was a need to bury my guns, perhaps that would be the time that I should be oiling them up and making sure I had ammo. If there is a danger, it comes from those who see the bogeyman in every other house and are so paranoid that they wish to disarm all of us for no reason than the Straw Man that I wrote about the other day. Those paranoids are the one's who are trying to save us from ourselves, to reduce us to the lowest common denominator, to force us "...to give up a little freedom for a little safety...but who..."deserves neither." I paraphrase those words from a man greater than me, Ben Franklin. His words are valid today.

I also note that those statists who would disarm us to save us from ourselves, to restrict our freedoms, would reserve those freedoms for themselves. Hypocrites are more dangerous than most criminals in my view.
 
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Marko Kloos put my thoughts about guns and CC better than anybody else ever has.

Reason vs. Force
by Marko Kloos

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the muggers potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.

The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
 
Since you don't appear to be a troll
He does to me.

He has made no attempt to explain his position, or show he has really changed on the gun ownership thing. As a good troll does he posted controversial items, gave it a chance to boil, came back and said he wasn't a troll to get things going again, but has still given no response to reasonable questions.

He is not one of us, nor does he want to be one of us, nor does he want to "understand" us. He is against us, as laid out in his writings (according to people here I trust), and only wants hits on his site and to get some tid bits (poor over the top responses to his bait) to post on his blog.

Of course, I could be wrong. He might have seen the error of his ways, decided he doesn't want to be a slave to an over reaching government, and helpless against armed criminals. Hey, it could happen. really, it could......... :rolleyes:
 
The tables that don't cater to the AR crowd hold other modern man-killers: rough-finished Yugoslav AK-47’s for three hundred dollars apiece; Barrett .50-caliber rifles capable of penetrating an armored limousine
Dan--you are the one that encouraged us to get to know you through your writing, so let me ask this: why the hostility toward guns you view as "mankillers"? Is defense against two legged attackers illegitimate? Most of the guns I own are for sporting purposes, but I also have several that are designed to be effective against human attack. Where do you stand with regard to defensive weapons?
 
He does to me.

He has made no attempt to explain his position, or show he has really changed on the gun ownership thing. As a good troll does he posted controversial items, gave it a chance to boil, came back and said he wasn't a troll to get things going again, but has still given no response to reasonable questions.

He is not one of us, nor does he want to be one of us, nor does he want to "understand" us. He is against us, as laid out in his writings (according to people here I trust), and only wants hits on his site and to get some tid bits (poor over the top responses to his bait) to post on his blog.

Of course, I could be wrong. He might have seen the error of his ways, decided he doesn't want to be a slave to an over reaching government, and helpless against armed criminals. Hey, it could happen. really, it could.........

In my experience trolls rarely respond and if they do they don't say anything but insult people personally. Then again he hasn't PMed me or anything.
 
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