Back to the Double-barreled "lupara"

[Tearlachblair]

Hey guys,

Since I'm turning 18 soon I'm seriously looking into the idea of buying a good shotgun for home defense, and I gotta say that my preference is more towards the mean-looking little double-barrel with hammers instead of a pump or auto. So here's my question -- any advice on the double-barrel shotgun for home defense? What kind of stock, barrel length, caliber, etc? Hey, even if you just want to post the cons of using a lupara, go on ahead!

 

[sm]

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11614&highlight=Short+shotguns

 

[Mannlicher]

well, right off, one "con" is the two shots. There has to be a reason for shotguns to have progressed from double barrels to repeaters.

 

[huntsman]

"There has to be a reason for shotguns to have progressed from double barrels to repeaters."
yeah when your hunting for food you want as many chances as you can get to fill your stomach. If you get a double forget the hammers they're not worth the hassle.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Managing a hammer-style double is an art. If you want to have fun, give someone a hammer double on a quail or pheasant hunt, and watch him try to cock it when the birds get up.

A good pump is a better choice -- easier to handle and manage, safer to leave ready (you can load the magazine, leave the gun cocked with the chamber empty, and it's locked up.) You have more shots, and it's easier to handle.

In addition, you can get extra barrels for most pumps -- I have a short, 20" cylinder barrel on my Ithaca Model 37 (the old "Deerslayer" barrel, from before the time deer barrels were rifled) for home defense and a 26" barrel with screw-in chokes for general hunting.

 

[PJR]

The short sxs hammer gun for home defense does have its supporters. Jeff Cooper to name but one. Cooper's rationale was that in hammer-down condition there are no compressed springs and the gun can be left in a ready position indefinitely without concern about spring fatigue.

Other benefits to the Lupara are double triggers (a must on a sxs IMHO). With two triggers you can instantly select choke constriction or if you wish the type of round (slug or buck) that you fire.

The short barrelled sxs lives up to its name. It's SHORT. With 20" barrels it will considerably shorter than a pump gun or semi-auto. This package almost rivals a pistol-grip only pump gun for compactness and with a full stock has none of the disadvantages.

It is true that handing a hammer gun to a newbie means some fumbling. Practice is required but practice is required with ANY gun. A person unfamiliar with a pump gun could short shuck the gun which is a far more serious challenge than fumbling the cocking of a hammer.

You do give up some follow-up shots. But assuming your HD scenario is inside a home, at night, in the dark then you are reasonable not to assume a constant stream of attackers. Furthermore firing a shotgun in the closed confines of your bedroom will be a deafening experience and repeat shots are unlikely. As for house clearing leave that to the professionals. Take up a secure position and call for the cavalry. Two shots will be enough.

As for ammo I'd have a round of low recoil buck in the first barrel and a low-recoil slug in the second. Note I live in a rural area and wall penetration issues don't apply. YMMV.

Not many companies make affordable hammer sxs. CZ does however and they would be my choice.

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=77

 

[sm]

Dang! Thats NICE!

PJR Good Post sir!

 

[Dave McCracken]

IMO, a Lupara for repelling boarders,as the Colonel would put it, makes a lot of sense for a civilian.

I still prefer 870s for this, but the situations I can recall and any realistic ones (No Zombie Biker hordes) I can imagine can probably be handled nicely by two shots or less.

Most werewolves would not stick around to count the rounds left in the shotgun if one or two tweakers/crackheads had already learned the folly of confronting a householder with a well known double.

I do think an 870 is a good answer to just about any shotgun question, but if anyone chooses to use a double they know well instead for defense, I'll not object.

 

[Kingcreek]

Am I correct about the lack of a safety on that dual hammer gun? Anybody else concerned about that?
I like the option of cocked and safety on with a HD shotgun. far simpler in an instant of stress to snick one safety off than to thumb back two mule ears. and safer than responding to some percieved threat by walking thru the dark abode with a double-cocked, two-trigger 12 guage.
hammer doubles are fun to play with but there are better choices out there for HD.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Barrel length: since short OAL (overall length) is one of the primary advantages of an sXs, why go any longer than 18-20"?

Gauge: Considering that 12 has the widest variety and best priced ammo, I'd go with that, unless the 20ga versions are considerably handier.


Will it necessarily be a better gun than an 870? Better question: will it get you out shooting, keep you happy, and be far better than no gun at all? If the answer is yes, I see no reason not to get a sXs. The CZ looks lovely, but costs twice what some other brands do. I know the Norinco goes for real cheap, but check out the reviews on THR and see if spending a little more on a Stoeger or Baikal (or whatever the Russians are calling themselves these days) would get more bang for the buck.

You're 18, you've got tons of time to figure out the perfect gun. Get what you want know, and use it right. If anyone wants to complain that you're udnergunned, there are about 125 million Americans who don't have a lupara or anything else, so you'll already be above-average.

-MV

 

[1 old 0311]

Don't have one but I have always loved the 'coach gun.' Just so damn COOL.

Kevin

 

[PJR]

Am I correct about the lack of a safety on that dual hammer gun? Anybody else concerned about that?

Every hammer gun of modern manufacture that I've seen including the CZ came with a tang safety. Older hammer guns may not however.

 

[Rabbi]

I do truly LOVE my Stoeger 12 gauge coach gun. It is hammerless, with nice lumber and screw in chokes (mine has IC/IC) and patterns nicely. I put a slip on buttpad from Pachmayr on it because with S&B 12 count 00 buck it pounds my arthritic shoulders.

A couple of 00 bucks and my .45 will get me safely to my AK, FAL or AR-15s.

 

[dfaugh]

Follow up shots

The way I was taught, was to hold 2 more shells between the fingers of the hand holding the forearm...With practice you can get off 4 shots pretty fast.

 

[Tearlachblair]

More questions!

First off, thanks a million for all the informative posts you guys have already put on here. They've been helpful and they've brought up two more questions that I have!

1. Hammerless vs. w/hammers. - Of course, the one with hammers always looks "meaner" in my opinion, but the real reason I went for hammers is because I've heard the hammerless may be prone to accidentally go off if the springs get fatigued... is this true or is the hammerless perfectly safe for keeping loaded at home or for tossing int he car to go camping with?

2. Ejectors -- I know many sxs are made for cowboy action, which requires that they have no automatic ejectors... which sxs have ejectors on them nowadays and which don't?

 

[sm]

Training is the key in anything.

No Tool is any better than user of said tool.

Here again it would be wise to try before you buy, meaning find someone that has one, and knows how to properly use it, and can instruct. Great Example as mentioned would be aCowboy Action Shooters.

We make this suggestion for any and all considerations for firearms, platforms, calibers/gauges...

I have seen folks that could shoot a Semi-Auto Shotgun, and could not run a Pump Shotgun. I have seen these same folks NOT be able to run a Single Shot Shotgun, Like a H&R Topper, or NEF.

These have only One Hammer. These single shot shotguns have done any and all duties, from HD, to taking deer, to felling game, to clay targets, to...

I was taught to keep second /third shells in weak hand, shoot, eject shell, insert, cock hammer while mounting, fire - repeat.

Go borrow a single shot if you do not have one, a .410 would be best with less recoil to see if YOU like that action type and want to learn it.

Yes you can take doubles on clays, quail, doves...with a single shot shotgun with a hammer...
One has to learn how, train, and continue to...

 

[ravencon]

On a self-defense double I'd recommend you go hammerless. Hammer management under high stress circumstances is not not a good thing.

 

[huntsman]

" but the real reason I went for hammers is because I've heard the hammerless may be prone to accidentally go off if the springs get fatigued... "

this my have been the case with the old flat main spring in the A&D design
but I've never heard of anyone have it happen first hand,and most moderen designs changed the flat to a coil spring.

2. Ejectors -- I know many sxs are made for cowboy action, which requires that they have no automatic ejectors... which sxs have ejectors on them nowadays and which don't?

for what you want I'd look for ejectors don't know about cheaper new stuff but BSS and SKB can be had with ejectors.