Cooper's "Lupara" for Home Defense

[scout26]

Telecaster1981,

I wasn't ranting on you, I guess I just got cranky after reading my 512th "What gun should I get for my wife/girlfriend" thread.

If she likes the SxS, and will practice with it (<------IMPORTANT PART), then by all means have her use it. If later on she decides she likes something else and is willing to BA/UU/R with it, then buy it for her. (Hint: A novel method of filling the gun safe. :cool )

....less desirable in a defense situation.

The only thing that matters in a defense situation is what she is comfortable (read: has practiced) with and will use, even if it is just a .22. I have yet to meet anyone who is willing to get shot with "just" a .22.

With that list of hardware, it sounds like it's time for a fun trip to the range with a huge pile of ammo. She just needs to work on the software by BA/UU/R. Although, as a gentleman, you should cover the BA part.

 

[ArmedBear]

Uh, stuffing loose shells into a side-by-side has nothing to do with intellectual capacity. Suggesting that someone could drop them while under extreme stress and perhaps while fleeing to avoid a deadly attacker is hardly an insult.

YOU were the one who figured she'd short-shuck a pump action. All I said was that loading a SxS while under extreme stress -- probably in the dark while trying to dodge an attacker -- is a LOT more difficult than operating a pump action. I can't say I've EVER short-shucked a gun either shooting clays or birds, unless I was using ammo that didn't feed well in it, generally cheap Winchester promo birdshot crap. I quit using it, no matter how cheap it is. Short-shucking is a grossly exaggerated problem.

I'm sure a SxS will be a fine farm implement. Hell, a nice SxS is a fine, fine thing in general.

But no one was insulting your wife, or at least I wasn't.

 

[telecaster1981]

ArmedBear,

I was kind of joking around about the fumbling shells. I was just trying to make the point that simple is good, and that I wasn't implying something about my fiance's intellect. Simple is good for me too...

And the issue of short stroking a pump...it's only happened to me once, with my grandfather's century old Remington pump, during skeet shooting. I'm sure other, more modern pumps are less prone to this.

 

[c_yeager]

I just don't understand why simplicity is such a bad thing.

Simplicity isnt a bad thing. The mistake that you are making is in the assumption that a double barreled shotgun is in any way easier to operate than any other firearm.

Here is a comparison:

SxS
1 fire two rounds
2 break open (one or two steps depending on weapon)
3 remove shells (x2)
4 insert new shells (x2)
5 close weapon
6 cock hammers *depending on gun
7 fire

AK/AR
1 fire 30 rounds
2 pull/drop magazine
3 insert magazine
4 pull/drop bolt
5 fire

I really dont see how the SxS is "more simple" in operation. The rifle is easier to make ready, and one has to do it quite a bit less often. Even a pump action is easier to use.

1 Fire
2 Operate slide
(repeat till empty)
3 Insert shells (x4-8)
4 Operate slide
5 back to steps 1,2

 

[ArmedBear]

1 Fire
2 Operate slide
(repeat till empty)
3 Insert shells (x4-8)
4 Operate slide
5 back to steps 1,2

...and you have the option of stuffing in a shell or two at any time during the process, too.

There's a reason Smokey the Bear always has a pump shotgun in the Crown Vic, rather than a SxS.

 

[ravencon]

An exposed hammer double is simple (in theory) to cock. Under stress it may not be so easy.

Another concern with an exposed hammer double is the decocking process. I have not examined every double in the world but I've never seen one where you could break open the action when the hammers were cocked. Just imagine the fun of decocking a loaded double--hmmm which hammer goes with which trigger?

These may be nonissues for someone who is motivated and dedicated and trains with it regularly. But.....

 

[byf43]

IMNSHO, for someone that doesn't have very much firearms training, he/she should get some BEFORE deciding what they are going to use, to protect themselves and/or their loved ones.
Now, with that said, here are my top picks for a SxS:

Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme in either 12 or 20 gauge. (Probably the 20 ga for the little lady.)



Just imagine what the intruder is gonna be thinking when he looks at the little lady and sees the two trash can openings (with choke tubes) staring him in the face!!!


As for the springs becoming weak or taking a 'set', I personally wouldn't worry about it.

Get her some T R A I N I N G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Read that as time behind the trigger.)


Keith

 

[Preacherman]

I'd like to make one suggestion for whatever gun you get her: have the gun fitted to her by cutting the stock to her dimensions, and put on a decent modern-technology recoil pad! Something like a Kick-Eez, or Limbsaver, or Pachmayr Decelerator, can take out up to 50% of the felt recoil compared to older-technology pads, and they really are worth the money. My personal preference is Kick-Eez, but the others I've mentioned are excellent as well, so don't be limited by my choice.

I've taken disabled shooters in wheelchairs, who were really intimidated (and punished) by typical 12-gauge doubles and pump shotguns, and cut the stocks to their dimensions, and fitted a Kick-Eez pad. The resulting smiles on their faces are wonderful to see! A properly fitted shotgun, with a good recoil pad, takes care of a whole lot of problems right there. This process also makes it a lot easier for light-bodied people to shoot a full-house 12-gauge load, instead of going down to the lighter and less-capable 20-gauge loads. Something to think about...

 

[Deer Hunter]

I have a stoeger coach gun in 12 gauge, and I've got to say it does kick like a mule. I bought a very nice recoil pad for it, a shooter's friend, direct from Cabelas. It's the best recoil pad I've ever used. I'd pick it over a limbsaver.

 

[AStone]

Bumpity bump

Setting aside for a moment the question of
whether it's the best gun for the job or not,
one must at least admit that a coach gun is sexy.

But wait: what was the question?

 

[Deaf Smith]

My dream, yes dream, HD scatter gun is this:

-12 guage side by side.
-Stainless
-18.25 inch barrels with choak tubes
- single trigger that is NOT recoil operated (yes pure double action.)
-EJECTORS (yes if a H&R cheepie can have effective ejectors why not a double!)
-Polymer stock
-Surefire weapon light in the forend stock (yep like an 870 weapon light.)
sidesaddle on the stock (reversable for lefies) with 4 extra rounds.

Nope, no one makes it like I want it!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

These short barreled SxS shotguns, lacking a reciprocating action, are very short, quick handling and harder for the attacker to grab. The lighter weight will make it kick like a mule, although fitting it with a recoil pad and possibly dropping down to 20 gauge (IMO a charge of 20 ga. buckshot at the length of a room is plenty) or using the mini-shells mentioned should minimize this. But if the two shots get used, what then? I think I would want a handgun nearby as a supplement rather than try to reload the shotgun.

 

[Gordon]

I really have gotten away from them. The Col. had an internally locked wrought iron gate to his bedroom at the Sconce. I don't feel that safe about keeping a loaded rabbit ear gun next to the bed anymore.


http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=27913&d=1124679208

 

[Double Naught Spy]

1.) She'll know exactly how many shots she's got to work with.

If counting rounds is that much of a problem, get her a single shot and it will be that much easier for her. I had never thought of counting rounds being so much of a problem that somebody opted to go with the second lowest capacity gun so they would know how many rounds they have to work with. It is interesting logic, but not logic with which one should fight.

 

[.45Guy]

Whatever you get her, the most important factor is RANGE TIME! When I got Mrs. .45 her Taurus 85 for Valentines day, it came with ~325 rounds of Winchester 158 grain LRN. Those are long gone... As well as several boxes of Cabella's remanufactured ammo.

 

[goon]

I can't speak for being attacked but ...
At one point in my youth I adopted an old single barrel 12 gauge that my dad had used as a truck gun for about 20 years before I was born. It only had an extractor.
Against a feral cat (I shot it because it was acting funny) I got off 6 shots so fast that the people who had heard the shots in the village I lived in thought someone was shooting a pump action or a semi auto. You see, it was one of the first animals I had ever killed and I didn't understand that it would keep moving after it was "dead" because of nerve impulses. So it kept moving. I was already scared because I thought it was rabid or sick, so I kept shooting until I ran out of ammo. Seems stupid now but at the time I was anything but calm. But I was still able to keep up almost continuous fire at it.

But I digress.
If I could do that at 13 years old with a single barrel, I think an adult who was well trained with a double could do it now.
I'm in agreement with the guys who are saying let her use the coach gun if that is what SHE is comfortable with.

 

[ArmedBear]

cat (I shot it because it was acting funny)

You got a helluva sense of humor, I guess.

 

[AStone]

Note to self: Never act funny when Goon is around ...

 

[goon]

For the record, I am not nearly as trigger happy as I was in my youth.

 

[jcord]

If you buy a stoeger coach gun disable the auto safty. Every time you open the action it safes the gun.

 

[Coronach]

1.) She'll know exactly how many shots she's got to work with.

See, here's my problem with this idea. Yeah, you know how many rounds you have to work with. That's great. The problem is the answer is always "2" or less.

Mike

 

[fireflyfather]

So what about those who are NOT mechanically inclined? Male or female, doesn't matter, for some of them, the APPARENT simplicity of such a weapon can be a CONFIDENCE issue. For me, more rounds is better than an exact count. For a few family members I can think of, 1, 2, or 0 is a far better thing when it comes to safety in a stressful situation (and I don't need a four rules lecture, this is about people who are NOT dedicated shooters and might not remember 4 rules clearly during stress).

ETA:

Perhaps the number of steps in manipulating the weapon isn't as important as the feeling of "big, scary, lots of bullets, is it chambered or not, etc" vs a weapon CONCEPT so simple anyone really could use it. Believe it or not, there are some people out there who are intimidated by guns, but would still like to have a simple one for HD. Of course they SHOULD go out and get training/practice, but realistically, many will not. For those that can't/won't/haven't had time yet/etc, a double gun is not a poor choice. It's intuitive. Break open, get out old shell, put in new shell, close & fire. For some people, pumps are a little more intimidating/mechanically complex.

 

[Coronach]

I agree that 1 or 2 is better than 0, but here's the thing: if someone is that unskilled/unsure/inexperienced that you have to reduce stuff to that level of simplicity, I am very suspect of their ability to successfully employ any gun. Rather that getting an equipment solution to the software problem, you're better off fixing the software problem.

If they refuse to be fixed, well, that's their choice. You may not like it, but it's theirs to make.

Mike

 

[Browning]

Personally I'd try and get her to try a semi-auto shotgun like the Remington 1100 and introduce her to trap and skeet. My wife kind of liked shooting until she went out one day and after that SHE was begging me to go bust some clays.

Women seem to do a little better with semi-auto rifles and shotguns (or maybe that's just my wife, she doesn't like any firearm that's manually operated) and when it involves a social activity then they'll really go for it especially if you make it fun (like fast moving targets that bust and fly apart on impact).

I also agree with an earlier poster who stated that it was a software issue. The more she shoots with whatever you guys pick out the better off she'll be if she's ever forced to use it for real. All that memory of clicking off the safety and swinging it up to bear and possibly squeeze the trigger for keeps will come to her easier the more she does it in practice.

Try a few different types of firearms and see what she likes best.

The trap and skeet thing worked for my wife, so I figured I'd mention it.

Really it doesn't matter so much what you pick as a firearm as much as it matters of how familiar she is with it and how well she'll be able to operate it under stress. If she can operate a .22 rifle like a pro, then she'll be better off with that than a side by side or some other gun that she can't operate under stress and that she's fumbling around with in the dark and trying to get hits with.

 

[AStone]

Yeah, it's all good.

But I'm just gonna say this again anyway.

Setting aside for a moment the question of
whether it's the best gun for the job or not,
one must at least admit that a coach gun is sexy.